<P>Schizzo, if you look like Bo Derek, then I look like Linda Evans!!! Just kidding, I have never been told I look like any famous person. I would love to look like Bo '10'.<P>Both of these women were married to John Derek, as was Ursula Andress, if you remember her, they all favor one another and are gorgeous to boot.<P>Still feeling better, not so hung up on my feelings of inadequacy today. I hope I can keep this up. When I'm feeling poorly about myself and think about the weight I need to lose, I eat more and sit around more.<P>I do need to start walking again, that was really helping me last year this time during the crisis. I had also started some tennis clinics and was getting back in the grove. I used to play on a 4.0 women's league. Unfortunately, or was it fortunate, I tore my calf muscle during one of those clinics and had to wear a cast for 6 weeks and then physical therapy for 4 weeks. Bummer!!! H had to wait on me hand and foot and be here to do for the children, OW hated that... I think it was part of God's plan for us. Gosh, I just remembered that was one year ago tomorrow!!! My, how time flies when you're having fun, excuse me, did I say fun?<P>I need to not sit here all day today, I was so far behind yesterday, and now I need to catch up on my domestic obligations. My 11 year old saw a spider in his room and has slept with us for the last two nights, so I need to go flush out that spider! Talk to you all later, have a fandamtastic day!<P>BTW, I will check out the Dr. Phil book, I love him on Oprah.<BR>Cathy

Everhopeful,<P>Oh Poo, I was hoping I could get on with the day, but had to read your post and now I have to respond. I too have a deflated football tummy, yuk, so uggllllyyy! I also thought about that hopefully remote possiblity of entering the dreaded, dark dating world. Scary thought isn't it...<P>I think what scared me the most was, from the shoulders up I look ok and could possibly raise someone's interest, but from the shoulders down to the deflated football area I would scare them off I'm sure.<P>And to think that I would have to compete with the bimbo's in our town was another scary thought. They all exude sex with a capital S. The game would have been so tough for me to get into. Not to mention, it would take me so long to look good enough to compete, and also H already had his squeeze, so that really left me in the dark. I kind of wanted to be able to get out there and strut my stuff right away, and not have to deal with all these emotional and physical barriers. I wanted it all way to fast and to soon, and that really brought me down.<P>So on to the deflated football tummy again, how in the world do you make that go away, it seems to me the more you lose the more deflated it becomes and the more it just kind of hangs there. My neice had twins, get this, she is 4'11 weighs about 95 lbs and gained about 40 with the girls. She lost the weight, but talk about a deflated football... Oh my G. I will definitely consider a lipectomy for my football.<P>Glad your H likes the way you look now, I'll be so glad when I like the way I look.<P>Cathy

(schizzo, I responded to Genie! You brat, you forced, FORCED ME, I tell you, to go over there!! )<P>Hi Cathy,<P>Re: Deflated football tummy<P>Hey, if it's possible, I have deflated football arms! LOL My poor upper arms were so fat for so long that even though I've lost weight, I can't "do" upper arms. Summer is hell, with all that waving skin!! I guess I need to work out, eh? Ick, ick, and double ick. And yeah, I look like Bette Midler, but now she's downright TINY, so although I resemble her, it's more the Bath House/Mermaid Bette years!

Regarding 'deflated football tummy"....<P>I'm told a tummy tuck is the only cure, but personally I'm using the cosmetic surgery fund for a chin/throat lift! Tummy tuck is very $ and major surgery to boot. <P>I invested in something that works wonders for any steamy event - a sexy lace-up corset, covers the middle and accents the good parts. Its the perfect temporary solution, but gets a little uncomfortable after a while - don't fall asleep in one! <P>I think the bottom line in all of this is that most of the time, they are just attractive to something different, not better. The OW in my case was 20 years younger and Asian - so how am I suppose to compete with that! But even at 20 years younger, H says I (now) have a better body than hers. Whatever. <P>As we get older we are all going to "age' anyway, and there are always younger, better looking women out there, so why torture yourself with competing with the any particular type different than yours in the first place? Be the best you can at any age, heighth, skin color, bone structure, weight etc. What else can you do? .......Now, I think I will go work out. <p>[This message has been edited by Everhopeful (edited September 26, 2000).]

Everhopeful,<P>I tried to reply with a quote from your post, I am just not adept with this jargon and computer technology.<P>But to quote you " I think the bottom line in this is that most of the time they are attracted to something different." Bam! That is exactly what he said to me during our last heated battle about recent contact.<P>He wanted something different! What does this mean, I hate to think that it means someone new to touch and feel or was it someone new to talk to or (torture myself) someone new for the sheer pleasure of newness and will he ever need something new and different again?<P>Do we wear down like some old dog or something? It would probably be more humane to just euthanize us, don't you think?<P>What the hell is something different? Why do they think they have the right to decide when we are old and useless without even letting us know that this is an issue for them or giving us a chance to adjust to this idea of his needing something new or different. <P>I am on a resent like hell jag, sorry, but I get in these pissed off modes and I don't want to LB the little precious sh--! God forbid! So, I'll beat up on all of you if you happen to read. Maybe I should have started a new thread, this one is about to crash and burn. I guess everyone is tired of reading about why us [censored] are so victimized.<P>Sorry I picked your post to get on my soapbox. Just a little too much thinking in this brain tonight. Stranger things have happened. <P>Cathy

Cathy, we all get bored with the "same 'ol, same 'ol", after I while. And since we can't be cloned, it boils down to that anyone out there could qualify as "different" and provide the "newness' of another person. Alot of it is being in the wrong place at the wrong time, i.e. meeting the wrong person who tempts them, but most of it is a question of will power and conscience, I believe. Plus, they rationalize their A with all the excuses about what was less than perfect with their marriage. <P>My H has explained why his A happened as "we were both looking for trouble and we found it". She was a flirty co-worker, without much of a conscience, he told her he was happily married but bored. He decided it was OK to have a fling, but then he "fell in love with her". I have convinced myself that when he finally started to get his conscience back and tried to break it off, the pain of withdrawal kept him coming back to her, as well as convincing him that it was "more" than just a fling, these strong feelings of pain trying to give her up he translated as real love. Evidently this happened several times before d-day, and by then he was feeling pretty hopeless about himself and convinced that the addiction he had to her was love. Anyway, thats how I prefer to look at it. <P>Anyway, back to your post. In my case, my H, me and the OW went through 3 months of hell as he tried to extricate himself from the relationship after d-day. This is when he learned his lesson, I think, about affairs. He saw how much pain he had caused me, the OW and himself, how he had made such a mess of his life privately and professionally. You and I can only hope that the next time a Ms. Flirt walks into his life, (and you can bet they will), he will say "no thank you - not worth it". <P>Yes, its totally normal to be attracted and <BR>tempted by something different, doesn't really matter if they are skinnier or fatter, younger/older, taller/shorter, prettier/uglier etc etc, than you. I truly believe that out of all this pain and hurt, a stronger marriage can emerge, a better wife and a better husband. So they made a huge, terrible, selfish mistake, but in realizing this, they will not let it happen again. Thats what we have to believe in, both our spouses and ourselves,and not to worry about who may or may not be more attractive to them. We only strive to be the best we can be, and hope they 1)appreciate us for what we are, 2) learn their lesson. Those that discard the "old shoes" either temporarily or permanently are pretty damn shallow, and don't<BR>deserve us - but they do deserve another chance if they are truly remorseful and recognize the errors in their judgement and behavior for what what it was/is. I hope your H realizes this - you deserve it, we all do. <p>[This message has been edited by Everhopeful (edited September 27, 2000).]

Good answer, Everhopeful,<P>I would add that we all need to take precautions to avoid tempting situations. Of course, my h has always done this; keeping his contact with women during his workday strictly professional.<P>He tells me he felt dead inside one day and decided to pursue something with a girl he had "noticed" but not acted on a few years before. I asked him about it because if there was "anything" going on then, the first A would really have been several years. He said no, he had asked her into his office one day because she was not functioning - crying and stuff. He heard her out about her divorce, but stayed behind his desk, no hugging or anything.<P>And yet, we know that even just "helping" someone like that can open a door for somenone like him who wants to "rescue" her.<P>Although he has always struggled with looking at women, neither OW was just a nice piece of [censored] that walked back. He got involved emotionally first and wanted to "help" both women.<P>I have given all this so much thought, but in the end, it is up to him. I would hope that if all his other "attempts" to avoid a bad situation failed, he would RUN like Joseph did in the Bible. But I'm not so sure....

Aha! The thread that WILL NOT DIE!!! <manic laugh><P>Schizzo, as usual I agree with you. The women my stbx was involved with all shared a common problem... life! They all had one or more bad marriages under their belts, needed a shoulder, and "fell in love" with my H's attempt to console and comfort.<P>I'm sorry I don't remember now which of you said it, but as someone did say, sometimes it's just a case of "different" vs. "better" when men (especially) pick an affair partner. It's all in the "feeling" that they get, not the visual. <P>As a woman who crossed that line once, I can attest to that fact as well. The OM in my situation said I made him (get ready to gag, because we/they ALL say this) feel ALIVE. He felt as if life was a monotone bore, and I brought color and light into it. I felt the same about him (I'm sorry to admit).<P>Nope, looks aren't the answer. It's all in the feeling. No doubt about it. Men like to fix and help, and the OW, in so many cases, needs just that.<P>P.S. Hi Cathy, still feeling GOOD about you? I sure hope so... you are beautiful... write it on an index card and tape it to the bathroom mirror, recite it... remember it. You are!!

Since this has taken on a life of its own I figured nobody would mind if I tossed in a quick question...<P>Schizzo - How long did you nurse? Did your husband have issues about it? I am nursing a toddler right now and just wondered.

justthewife,<P>Does your h not agree? I would have liked to go even longer, but the weaning was not my choice with either child.<P>With the first I went 13 months, oddly it was when I miscarried the next baby (not when I got pregnant) the milk just dried up.<P>My little girl refused her entire ninth month. She had a bad cold and didn't really seem to enjoy it anyway. After weeks of being bit and manually extracting the milk, I finally figured it just wasn't meant to be...<P>Both kids were early teethers, with 4 teeth by 4 months so getting chomped was not fun...<P>The pastor's wife nursed hers until 3 and 4 yrs old and thinks it was great, so I think it is what you want and can negotiate with your h. It is no one else's business!

Schizzo, He agrees to a point. But every few days tosses in a LB for me about how since she can talk she should be done. It is usually when the little one is having a high need day, and he wants something at the same time. We are trying to negociate, but he will never say he has an issue with it until the exact moment comes up. Thanks

justthewife,<P>This is one of those things that should be worked out with a POJA. If it really bothers him (H) that much, maybe you should consider stopping.<P>See, this is one of those really hard questions. The POJA is used for situations exactly like this. You don't agree, so find a compromise, if you can (like maybe agree to nurse one more month) and then agree to wean the child.<P>By the way, my stbx and I were never good at the POJA thing, but I do see the merit of it. No use LB'ing all over the place. The W or H MUST come first. <P>Just my opinion.

Two things - my two cents worth again.<P>I nursed my second child until she was 4 and she still would do it if I let her....(she's 6 now!) It was only a comfort thing the last couple of years - bed time and first thing in the morning. My son however, quit after 1 year - didn't want any part of it. (but he sucked his thumb until age 6!!!)<P>Secondly, back to the infidelity thing - in my case, the OW had a bad childhood, and my husband not only saw her as a lost soul, but as a soul mate since he had a screwed up childhood too. So they saw themselves as naughty children - "aren't we bad - but isn't it fun being bad" kind of thing. "We are both twisted and lost souls - lets nurture our dark sides." I came from a pretty stable childhood, and I always thought that my stability and the fact that I wouldn't let him down like his parents did was a huge factor in his both loving me and needing me. Plus, I think I am fun and exciting too, I like adventure and the 'avant garde". But its still the same old wife, after 10 years, no matter what you have to offer. <P>So who knows why they pick 'em? Like I said, just something new and different, the attraction of the forbidden in any shape or form, it really doesn't matter. Its an attraction that beckons to most of us I think, so ultimately, its more of a question of why they decide to act on it, rather than say, "not a good idea, no thank you." As I mentioned before, we can only hope they have learned their lesson when all is said and done. If you play with fire, you may get burned. (along with your loyal spouse and other loving people in your life). Lets hope that they all come around to see the light, and never cross that line again.