Good morning All,<P>For the men out there and even just to get women's opinions. Do husband's (men) like it when women (wifes included) talk dirty to them.<P>I'm asking this because the OW is a "talker". She has a truck driver's mouth and doesn't hold back when it comes to telling my H EXACTLY what she wants, her language is lude and vulgar (IMHO), just listenng to her sex talk offends and embarresses me. It's so raunchy. But my H went for it so all I can think is he must like it.<P>Opinions please???<P>Jo<P>------------------<BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"

JMHO, but here goes...<P>During sex, you betcha...major EN for me. My STBX was virtually silent...mmm!<P>Anywhere else, major turn off! Sitting around at the office talking sex is not my idea of fun. My sex life is (was) very, very private. A woman like your WS' OW has absolutely no mystery about her...not my type of woman.

Hi, Sweetie...well, guess I'm gonna embarrass myself here.<P>I'm a sweet little southern girl, prim and proper (generally), but, uh, well, in an intimate setting with my hubby, many times I sorta let go - uh, seriously let go! I kinda like it and so does he. <P>Now our little PT was pretty vulgar ALL the time and that turned him off, but "bedroom" talk has exactly the opposite effect on both of us.<P>Going back into hiding now....<P>Lori

LOL...now we know the real Lori.<P>I think men like it, but not all the time. I can just see them waking up the next morning and thinking..."she said that!!!". I mean, at the times the raunchy stuff is exciting, but not every time. Men like the romantic stuff too I think.<P>But hey, what do I know...whatever I was doing was apparently the wrong thing, so I am gonna be the celibacy queen from now on.<P>I'm pissy today, you may be able to tell from my post. I'm trying hard to plan B Jo, but it's not working. My son got into a car accident last night, not his fault, and he wasn't hurt, thank God. H was out of town so I called him to let him know. I was at the hospital until 3:00 am with seven teenagers, most of whose parents did not bother to show up. I was mom to five of them, a few pretty hurt and all shook up. A man with a huge truck and horse trailer hit them...everyone was ok but the horse...died.<P>Well, H shows up here this morning, uninvited, and I did everything wrong according to him. He now is going to take over and save the day! He knows about the insurance, the lawyers, the rental cars...and the B&()* of it is, he does! He got mad at me for letting my son take my car today to go do something he had been planning for weeks. <BR>God, why can't he just leave us alone and let me handle things. I am trying my best...I run and do damage control every single day. I tell these kids how much their dad loves them...and when they ask me if there is another woman I laugh and say..."now would your dad do something like that? Heavens no, he's a good man". Then I get slapped in the face.<P>He told me that I have the power to destroy the relationship he has with his children, by telling them the truth...and HE DOESN'T TRUST ME!!! He hates that I, in his eyes, have that power...and it makes him hate me I think.<P>My Lord Jo, I am sorry to rant and rave on your thread. I am walking in quicksand here and feel so helpless.<P>Jo, would you marry your H all over again knowing what you know now? I've been asking myself that questions. It would make an interesting new thread. You know, other than my precious children, I don't think I would. I'd marry the one that worshiped me, the one I walked all over...the one that was not a challenge.<P>Damn it, I hate this.<P>Sorry to vent on your thread hon. <P>allison<P>Get your butt to Arizona!<BR>

Thanks guys....<P>I pretty much already knew my H does like it in the bedroom and so do I, I should have clarified ... the OW does this outside the bedroom. She did it on his pager voicemail, many many many times and non-stop for months on end. I listened in and was appalled at what she was trying to do ... manipulating my H reminding him of her illicit sexual antics that bare a resemblance to a hard core porn star.<P>Oh well, guess that's an EN I wasn't providing. Silly me.<P>AZ:<P>I don't know if I'd marry my H all over again? Right now, the way he is it's like he's a stranger ... and if I met a stranger that acted like my H does the answer would have to be "no". <P>Seems like he has had this secret part of him all along, a part of him that's dark and hidden, one where he would never share. Now that it's out in the open, those traits are not what I'm looking for in a H or even a friend.<P>Thanks All for your opinions.<P>And Lori .... you kill me! Always knew you had it in ya!<P>Love,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited October 01, 2000).]

az,<P>I think your H acts like that toward you because he has that feeling of being left out or not in control of his family any more. When he shows up, he overcompensates for it and takes out his feelings of inadequacy and shame on you. Why else would he be so worried about whether you tell his children or not. Let's face it, if he really cared what they thought of their father he wouldn't have had the A or be with the OW. Next time he tries that line on you about how you could ruin his relaitonship with his kids, just tell him that's his job not yours. Don't even acknowledge that crap anymore. As for the insurance and bills, one less thing for you to think about!<P>cleo

This is a very weird topic for me because it is something I am completely confused about.<P>In my particular case, I don't think the 'affair' was about sex at all. My husband wanted to desired by someone else. It was his issue...his need, his greed, his ego.<P>In our marriage, I am by far the more sexual half of the equation. <BR>My husband can go weeks between times we are together. And it makes me nuts, always has. I'm a two or three times a week gal, always have been. I am the one who goes 'without'. My needs are the ones not being met.<BR>So, it isn't always about the men's libido as much as it is about their 'other issues'.<P>The first time I talked dirty to my husband, he became shy and embarrassed and got this goofy look on his face and I felt like a wanton woman who had just defiled an altar boy. <P>He did not stray for lack of deep devotion, lack of passionate love, lack of erotic sex or lack of understanding or compassion, he strayed because he is selfish, self-absorbed, immature and an ego-maniac. On closer examination, I think you may find that your spouses share these traits.<P>Today's men are caught up in MTV thinking, Victoria's Secret ads, unrealistics expectations, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit editions, E TV, Howard Stern, and an overall gross immaturity that is particular to our society today. <P>People get so far away from God and family and so caught up in the temptations shoved down their throats via the media, that I believe they actually think that it's OK to screw around...if it feels good, do it...love the one you're with...any port in a storm...send a letter, Maria, address it to my wife...blah, blah, blah.<P>The sixties and seventies set the stage for a social decay that has pervaded every aspect of our lives and caused untold misery. The fallout we are experiencing from this mindset and these behaviors have caused our lives and our families such heartache and destruction that it is changing the landscape of commonly held beliefs.<P>I didn't mean to wax philosophical, really. I am angry tonight and needed to shoot off my mouth in an attempt to keep me from shooting my husband. hahahaha<P>Catnip =^^=

Gotta agree with most of what you say Catnip. I too believe that this is not about sex...it's about (gag) admiration, feeling wanted, ect...so the women that they supposedly devoted their lives to and had children with get a little busy and tied up with life they think they are owed "more". <P>I do think a lot of good got done in the 60's and 70's, civil rights and such, but it is too bad that men and women today feel like they get to have it all. Throwing away what most single people out there are craving...family, committment, love, it's a sick joke really.<P>Man, we MBers are having a vent-fest today aren't we? <P>My H has bought into the idea that he needs to feel deeply in love with someone. It didn't work with his two year A, but he is still thinking it exists. It does no good to try to explain that those feelings are fleeting..come and go, that the real deal is different, quieter, sweeter. He has to go out and see for himself, again and again...too bad a 48 year old man can't find any peace in reality.<P>allison<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by catnip:<BR><B>He did not stray for lack of deep devotion, lack of passionate love, lack of erotic sex or lack of understanding or compassion, he strayed because he is selfish, self-absorbed, immature and an ego-maniac. On closer examination, I think you may find that your spouses share these traits.<P>Today's men are caught up in MTV thinking, Victoria's Secret ads, unrealistics expectations, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit editions, E TV, Howard Stern, and an overall gross immaturity that is particular to our society today. <P>Catnip =^^= </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think I got the flip side of that, Catnip. My STBX was totally caught up in soap operas. She even has the Soap Opera Channel so she doesn't miss a thing! She seems to think that love and marriage should be just like on the soaps...filled with passion, intrigue, and romance. <P>Both men and women have been given unrealistic expectations of what love and sex should be like. Coupled with the fact that our society no longer values long-term committment, it makes marriage that much harder to keep going.<P>Allison, your H seems to suffer from what my STBX does...an inability to recognize true love. They seem to think that passion and the feeling of "being in love" are the only feelings that matter, while the quiet, stable, comfortable "background noise" kind of love is somehow lacking. What they don't realize is that those passionate romantic feelings will not last, and they will endure an endless series of short, unfulfilling marriages. Its too bad, really. Some people just never learn.<P>

In my H's case, it most definitely is an ego thing. OW is young enough to be his daughter and I think the ego rush alone prevents him from breaking it off. He's going through a MLC and having her pursue him has got to soften the reality that he is getting older.<P>Plus, at the time he started the A, he felt like a failure and was letting me down because he was having difficulty in finding a job. He told me he felt like a "flea" living off me. I never berated him, but rather enouraged him to keep trying. Instead, he sunk into depression, I later realized.<P>With OW, he got to be Mr. Hero, coming to her rescue when her H was unsupportive during her medical illness. Or, so she claimed.<P>I don't know about the "bedroom talk", but I do know from reading some of her letters to him that she lays it on thick about how wonderful he is. She's a master at feeding men's egos.

Catnip,<P>I loved your reply, however I need to add my 2 cents here. I grew up in the sixties, but I was not a radical, women's movement kind of girl. I was the shy, stable, traditionalist at heart, GOOD southern girl, who was taught to sit properly and not do " those" things.<P>I believe that men are seeking revenge and their easiest prey are their wives. We ( the women's movement) have done ourselves a terrible injustice by taking such a strong independent stand against men. In doing this fight for our independence and our so called freedom or liberation, we have literally destroyed man as God intended him to be.<P>I know I'm going to catch alot of flack for this ... but we (some unintentionally) have sent men into a scramble trying to defend themselves and their God given right to remain the dominant force in our society. They have responded in painfully, unimaginable ways to women. Pornography, sexual and physical abuse, sexual addictions, infidelity, alcoholism and even resorting to child abuse, all sorts of mental dysfunctions, all of these horrific atrocities committed to women. <P>I know that all of these social disorders have been prevalent in our society for centuries, but I personally believe they are of a more epidemic proportion in our society today.<P>Men have literally been stripped of everything they were taught to be believe in themselves and their position on this earth.<BR>They have been made to feel inadequate and also undeserving of the love and respect from a wife and family that they deserve. <P>We have fallen away from the biblical sense of direction our lives as husband and wives should take, we have sinned also in the eyes of God by treating men lesser than God wanted us to. We are to respect our husbands and honor them and not refuse them. They are to be second, only to Christ in our lives, then all others after them. <P>I don't know that much about the bible and I know this sounds so subservient, but this much I have learned from the extensive reading I have done since my H had an affair.<P>We have knocked them down off the pedestal that they are to be on. You are probably thinking the same as I have thought, that they should earn our love and respect. This is true, but the male ego has taken a severe blow and they are instinctively programmed to fight back, even if it's women who have become their enemy. They are fighting back and their number one enemy, like I said, are their own wives. <P>I do hope someone follows me here, I am not that good at explaining things and I hope I have not offended anyone ( my SIL would die if she read this), this is just my own personal opinion. But I truly feel men have resorted to sordid lifestyles so frequently now because they are so confused regarding their role in society and in their own homes. <P>I hope someone will agree with me here!!!<P>Cathy <BR>

You can also disagree, the more the merrier, I say!!! Anyway we will work this out and finally understand why so many of us are in this predicament. I say it shouldn't be this way!!! Did we cause this epidemic and you must agree this is epidemic. Look at the numbers on this one site alone, my God it is staggering. Read all the other sites available for self-help and think of all of the books and seminars available !!!!<P>This is epidemic, we need to do something about this... we need to have relationship programs in our schools, we need to go to church and pray for us and them and our children. This is not RIGHT, now is it?<P>Let's get on the band wagon and do something so our daughters and sons won't have to go through this nightmare life.<P>Cathy

Cjack:<P>I concur. This mindset is not particular only to men. <BR>Women get caught up in the media frenzy, Cosmopolitan magazine, the unrealistic expectations crammed down our throats and yearning for a 'soap opera' life where every sexual encounter is kismet and each relationship is "THE one", to be immediately discarded at the slightest dissatisfaction or misunderstanding.<P>Your wife is caught up in the 'fluff' of life. She rejects the very things that would bring true meaning to her. She will soon find out that what she perceived as 'happiness' was only window dressing and that she once had it all and didn't even realize it.<P>Soap operas are very addictive and provacative...however, also completely unrealistic because none of the people on soap operas seem to have telephones..they spend their days dropping in on each other and confronting one another. None of us do that in real life. No one I know in my circle of friends constantly drop in on each other to shoot off their mouths. Just an example of the unreality of it all.<P>Good luck to you Cjack, I hope she finds her way out of the fog and back home with you, where she belongs.<P>Catnip =^^=<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited October 02, 2000).]

Catplay:<P>You make many valid points, Cathy. I am a traditionalist and polictically incorrect, so you won't get any arguments from me.<P>And, please never worry about 'offending' anyone simply by expressing your point of view because you think it might be unpopular...who cares? <P>I for one, am tired of listening to people piss and moan about someone saying something inappropriate and I refuse to let the "politically correct" cow me into keeping my mouth shut.<P>Send me to sensitivity training! I would love to spend a week in a group like that and express what I think and feel and challenge their 'sheep' mentality.<P>Catnip =^^=

All my life, I have been the sweet, virginal little woman that a guy brings home to mom. Now, looking back, it makes me angry. Not angry that I was true to my own values, but that I was used for that purpose so many times.<P>My 1st boyfriend in college--I told him that I was going to wait for marriage, no if's and's or but's--he told me that was great, perfect, he respected me and loved me even more for it. But every night after he walked me to my dorm room, he would stop by his fat biker woman's place and spend the night with her. It seems so hard to believe that I actually cried my eyes out over him at one time--what a loser. After a huge chain of girlfriends (both while he was seeing me and after) and even after his 6-month-long marriage, he STILL wanted me to get back with him.<P>My 1st husband, on the other hand--I told him that I was waiting for marriage, no matter what. That only stoked his fire, gave him more motivation to score. Mark his territory, I guess, by being the first. Okay, I saw sex as a big commitment, that's probably why I married him (I was just a dumb kid.) Yet, when we were apart for a month or so when I was away doing army stuff, he bedded four women within 2 weeks. It was a total "F*** Festival." Of course, when I found out, was mad, and left him, he begged, pleaded, cried, sent me roses. (Wish #2 would do this!) I was The One that he really loved.<P>And now my second husband, I guess it's nice that he doesn't picture me the same way as his cybersex women. At least I get that honor from him. I am no prude, I have a healthy appetite, and more than half the time, I was the one who initiated, but there are just some things that I don't figure express love, and don't need to be done. There are a whole lot of things that don't, and I wasn't going to do that kind of stuff. And he never expected me to. Miss Kitty would and did almost without asking. Skank.<P>Oh, but call me Mother Mary, mother of the His Son. He told me that for this fact, he would always love me (in the next breath he told me that he couldn't stand me and I made him sick--projection.) I don't get it.<P>It's like some guys need two women. One to keep at home and produce children with, the other to. . .I don't know what. . .with.<P>What do you think, guys? Am I just ranting here? Sorry, I have been burned over this too many times, I feel a little bitter.

I am a dadblasted fool for sitting up this late and cyber *****ing!!! My H has been gone for four days and he went to bed a longgggg time ago and whispered to me to wake him up when I came to bed!!!Duh!!!<P>Bernzini, What do you think the women slaves were used for in the south during the civil war?????<BR>The white plantation owners didn't have time to fool with those hoop-skirts!!!!!<P><BR>Catnip, <P>I am completely off the subject here, I think this thread was about talking dirty during sex with your man, is that correct?<P>I should have started my own thread about what I'm discussing. <P>I do support women's rights, we were in the background for so many years and our predecessors had so much to offer our society but were stymied. I am happy for the progress women have made in our society, we are ALLOWED to do so much more with our lives in this day and age. I only wish we could have done it without destroying our men in the process. I still think of them as the weaker sex emotionally, but physically, I think of them as the stronger and I wish they weren't so hung up on feeling inferior to women.<P>Men and women are different, I want someone to open my car door, pump my gas, seat me before he is seated and wait on me to get to the table before everyone digs in, hug me when I'm sad and hold me after he loves me. I don't want to paint my house, go get gas for the lawn mower, rinse out the garbage cans in the 101 degree heat... etc, etc. Sure I can... do these things, but I don't want too.<P>I want to be pampered and made to feel feminine and special. I haven't always conveyed this to my H. I think reading Ellen Kriedman's web-site made me realize that I had just about lost my sexuality and my purpose in this relationship. If I want to be treated special... I need to convey this and treat myself special. I need to feel and act sexy and feminine and show my man that I am regardless of how much I weigh or how old I am. Bottom line is how do you feel about yourself and what have you contributed positively to your own relationship. <P> It's late and I need to respond to that whisper by going to bed. I'll sleep on this... I'm not done venting, yet...<P>Cathy <BR>

Altho you guys have gone off the beaten path, this discussion is very interesting.<P>Very good reading to say the least.<P>Jo

Jo:<P>Hey. My fault. I'm sorry. I tend to get off the subject when my mind is racing in a million different directions.<P>It's been a really goofy weekend...lot's of confusion. Sorry, Catplay. <P>Catnip =^^=

Sorry Jo......Catplay! I agree 100% We women CAN'T have it ALL we are fooling ourselves and contributing to the destruction of our families when we believe such a BIG lie! Our H's are SUPPOSED to come FIRST,not anything else(except the Lord , of course).<P>That sure is what got me into big trouble,I put the kids first and thought I was wonderful for being such a martyr.H sought his comfort somewhere else while I was exhausted from trying to meet kid and family demands.I know i totally lost track of his EN's. I'm not taking all the blame by any means but when the W loses focus of H then H loses focus of W and it becomes a vicious circle that is hard to break,especially when resentment sets in. Now that we're both focused where we should be, on God's plan for our lives as H and W, we are much happier and content. Womens lib took more away than it gave us. <P>OK Jo, now I'll chime in on the sex talk thing. My H loves it....in the bedroom and anytimes I can hint to him in a nasty way,but it HAS to be done privately.As, I've gotten older, I've become more comfortable being "verbal" with my H.I think women who are brazenly forward in public look desperate and trashy,H thinks so as well. Sorry for contributing to your thread taking on a life of it's own,but I feel very strongly about the direction it took. Please forgive me!

Hey guys,<P>Don't get me wrong ... I'm very intrigued by the discussion and I'm enjoying it.<P>Please please continue. I'm going to add my 2 cents worth as soon as I get more than 10 seconds to my self.<P>Love,<BR>Jo