Hi Wassi, <P>I wish I could offer some sage advice. I have tried to understand why some "men" just don't get it. The love and admiration that most of you ladies give to your husband's is all I really want. When your husbands don't respond to you, I simply shake my head in disbelief. <P>Like you, I have experienced the ongoing brutality on on-again off-again communication between my wife and the om. I have reconciled my emotions to understand that there is nothing else I can do to break the bond. It has to be my wife's decision. I have given and continue to give all I can. The rest is up to her. I am chosing to no longer be a victim to this monster. <P>Wassi, I'm sure you have read through the "What I've learned..." revelations. I thought I would give you a few that continue to help me. <P>I've learned-<BR>you cannot make someone love you. <BR>All you can do is be someone who can be loved; the rest is up to them.<P>I've learned-<BR>that you can keep going long after you can't.<P>I've learned-<BR>that you control your attitude or it controls you.<P>I've learned-<BR>that just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have.<P>Wassi, you're a good lady. You're married to a lost man. You are not responsible for chnaging him. You have fought the good fight to save your marriage and you continue to do so. Never tire from doing what you know is right. <P>God bless you,<P>SHA <P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved.<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited October 18, 2000).]

SHA...so good to see your name!<P>Wassi...are you seeing how loved you are?<P>SHA...same question as Peppermint:<P>I understand what you are saying and agree completely, but how do you apply this day to day in your life?<P>How do you give to your marriage, but not put your heart on the butcher block in this long term, dig the trenches and hunker down, recovery process?

Wassi,<P>I only now came here, don't come all the time anymore either...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Other than prayer & my shutting the door once he walked out again, I do not know where he found himself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know if I can say anything that will help. I am really beginning to realize that truth that I cannot change him. CANNOT!<P>For almost a year, I have been in full "recovery" mode, plan A all the way. He ended the affair, but was still the selfish, immature man he always was, I just saw it clearly for the first time.<P>I pushed and pulled and fretted. I wondered why I wasn't healing. And this is true even though I believe there has been no further lying.<P>A few weeks ago, I realized I needed to detach some, to focus on my own healing. We discussed whether this would mean separation, sleeping in different rooms, or what? What did I need to begin to heal?<P>For the first time, he got it and was willing to do whatever I needed, even to move in with his folks. And I have to say again, this is in the context of everything being "right", no contact, renewed in-love feelings (mostly a strong animal attraction I have never lost when it comes to him). Not sure what the feelings equal on his end.<P>In our case, I backed away from even room separation because I didn't think it was necessary. But I did encourage him to keep his travel job when he suddenly wanted to quit. I WANTED him to be gone a lot! For the first time in our marriage!<P>He seems to be getting it, but I'm not jumping right in and buying. He is listening for a change. In fact, he may be able to help with my healing (instead of being part of the problem) after all!<P>The counsellor I have just begun seeing has told me I have major depression and anxiety disorders. Like I didn't know. Funny thing is I put on such a good front in the sessions I've had and he still saw through it.<P>I know what you mean about feeling dead inside. We saw the movie last night "Instinct" with Anthony Hopkins. The guy becomes so withdrawn that he refuses to speak and stands staring all the time. I told my h I have felt like that a lot lately.<P>Does anyone else feel that way or am I losing my grip?<P>

Hi FHL,<P>Thanks for the kind words. I am much stronger these days, for many reasons. Mostly through faith and prayer, largely with the help of firestorm's counselor and Steve Harley. Assistance given by Dr. Phil and his relationship rescue program.<P>Steve Harley told me that I am absolutely in control of my own situation right now and in how I react to it. BUT I have absolutely NO control over firestorm. I have decided to exert control on my own life by refusing to let firestorm take any further advantage of me in any way. I have always believed that firestorm and I were increidbly lucky to have each other. Right now he is incredibly lucky that I am still here and he needs to reinstill in me that I am lucky that he is still here. It will take some time to accomplish that.<P>I am being clear and firm, but realistic in my expectations. No more coasting by with words and broken promises, he must SHOW me by actions each day. He must continue with his personal therapy and follow the plan he discussed with Steve Harley. He must put our relationship first and concentrate his efforts on that without any expectations that I will "repay" in kind. He must prove, over time, that he really truly "gets it" and understands the consequences of the affair. These things were laid out by the counselor he is seeing.<P>Meanwhile, I concentrate on my needs for reassurance, safety, respect, and protection. I am preparing for the possibility of the failure of our marriage, but doing it with the sincere hope that I will never need to use those preparations. Still, the fact that they are there is a kind of safety net.<P>I have come to accept that my "knight in shining armour" isn't so shiny, but neither is anyone else's. And that, while it takes two people to make a marriage successful it only takes the weakness of one to destroy it.<P>Basically, I have started refusing to accept any of the blame or burden for the affair and to put it squarely where it belongs-right on firestorm. But I did it by explaining that to him ONCE and letting him know it by my daily actions and not by continuing to talk it to death.<P>I have also acknowledged that our marriage is not recovering yet, but I am and will continue to do so. I am willing to put my fair share in to saving our marriage, but only after firestorm has committed to doing the same and I WILL NOT SETTLE FOR LESS THAN THAT ANYMORE.<P>Basically, I have taken back MY life, acknowledged my self-worth, and accepted firestorm's imperfections. This affair will no longer control me, I will control its effects on me by whatever means are necessary (plan A, plan B OR plan D, if necessary). It feels good to be back in control again.<P>I hope that I can help wassi in some way. Please let me know of any other suggestions.<P>Peppermint

Wassi,<P>Considering the circumstances, you sound great. When I had my second D-Day, I began to beat on his chest like a wild woman. You're right, this time is about more than just an affair. I did not feel the "let's work it out", "how can we fix it" because I knew that I had done all I could; everything he asked, yet he still started another affair.<P>I wanted so badly to bolt, but as I've mentioned before, my circumstances did not allow me to do so on MY terms. I had my children , my personal goals and my sanity to consider. Like peppermint, I decided to take control of MY life.<P>We co-exist and H knows that I am ready to walk. In the meantime, he knows what he must to keep me. The ball is now in his court. I am still his wife and treat him with respect, honor my vows, etc. but he also knows that I have reached the end of my rope and am preparing for a life with or without him. <P>Its been two years and he is slowly making some improvements. But he is still somewhat clueless as to what it takes to keep a marriage. He needs counseling for some personal issues and we need marital counseling, but he refuses both. This makes "recovery" that much harder.<P>Whatever you choose, know that we are behind you.<P>God Bless,<BR>Enlightened <P>

You guys made me cry again. So many wonderful people here.<BR>I am reading every word over and over even if I'm not capable of proper replies. I love you all.<P>FHL<BR>Yes I think I am a good enough actress. With my brother's illness I have been in tears every day anyway.<P>Lori<BR>I wish he would come here. I don't know if he would. He really thinks he was protecting me in some bizarre way...even though all I have really asked for is honesty.<P>Paha<BR>Thank you for sharing. Today I am not capable of thinking about me. I am very lost. Have no idea where to look to get started. I will try though.<P>Lor<BR>Everything goes against my gut now. I have become so paranoid with all this crap. I trust no one.<BR>I don't know what I can tell him that I haven't already. I don't know how I can explain anything I haven't already.<BR>I really believe that he must learn elsewhere. I really wish he would come here. I know he won''t go to counceling.<BR>He will just stick his head in the sand and hope it all goes away.<P>NB<BR>I know you understand. Thank you for being there.<P>Peppermint<BR>Yes we do have a lot in common. You keep talking. I am listening and learning. <BR>If you want to e-mail me my addy is mmawilliams@hotmail .com<BR>Every thing that you share helps me and others you know.<P>chris<BR> <BR>Thank you. You have seen every bit of this haven't you? Maybe I am the idiot.<P>Whodat<BR>I even pulled you out of the woodwork!<BR>Now that made me smile.<P>SirHa<BR>How are you? This stuff just sucks doesn't it? Thank you for sharing what you have learned. You know I have been lurking all along. prayers for you.<P>schizzo<BR>I have seen that movie and I have felt like that. Feel it very much right now. You put it into words. Take care.<P>Enlightened<BR>I did lose it. I did beat on him.<BR>Not that anything really gets through.<BR>He has been good to me. He has tried. He just doesn't get the honesty concept. He never will.<P>From what he has told me today...the bimbo isn't being very nice. She will "think" about giving him his things back. Like I want them here? Like that wouldn't be another secret or two or three? How was he going to hide another meeting?<BR>At this point I believe nothing.<BR>I know he will not do what is required. I amy ask him to come here. Maybe if you all could try to get through to him.<BR>I have run out of ideas.<BR>Will check in later.<BR>Love you all.

Wassi,<P>Just a quick note here for you. If you could ever get your H to come to this board, I would be glad to talk to him. At some time he has to face reality and accept the truth that what he is doing is wrong and it is ALL HIS FAULT. There is a good possibility the he may want to get out of the A but does not have the guts to do it. It will take a lot of fortitude to do this because he will have to face the truth about himself. HE WILL HAVE TO FACE AND ACCEPT WHAT HE IS AND WHAT HE HAS DONE TO YOU.<P>FH&L said it all. She is holding the cards against him. She is using all the tactics in the world to hold her grip on him. He must be the one to break it. Let him know that you know what is going on. Don't let him run over you and make him face what he is and what he has done. He will soon start to get it just like I am doing. <P>My hopes and prayers are with you. Let me know if I can help........fs

I am so sorry. <P>A friend of mine was complaining about her teenager, how she didn't get that lying to her parents was wrong, how she apparently felt that her parents wouldn't want her to do something she wanted to do and consequently she "had" to lie, and that made it all ok. It is bad enough when your teenager doesn't get the concept of honesty, but at least they have the excuse that they aren't grown up yet.<P>My H told me on a couple of occasions, when he ran out of "reasons," that maybe he had just been a jerk. Unfortunately it's hard to argue with a statement like that.

firestorm<BR>Thank you so much. I wish he would talk to someone. He swears that this was his attempt at finalizing things. He has not seen her in over a year and the calls were to tie up the loose ends...return the things and get his back. I think he believes that. <BR>Unfortunately he doesn't see that the no contact letter was a necessary way of finalizing things. It's his way or no way I guess. <BR>He is a good man....just that lies are like breathing for him. I don't think that can change.<BR>If I can I will try to get him to come here. <P>Nellie<BR>How are you? Thank you for your story. It is amazing isn't it?<BR>I am so sorry that your H is still in moronland. Yes I have been lurking all over this forum and you are in my thoughts and prayers.

<B>Wassi</B><P>Just checking in. I have been all day. Even though you are feeling like you are all apart, you are sounding remarkably together. You still have strength there lady and you will get through this.<P>I know it is time for you to make some mighty big decisions. It really stinks when we are forced to make them, and don't really feel up to it, or that we know what choices to make. Still being back up against a wall, we have no choice but to make a choice. Does that make any sense?<P>You have been given some very good advice here and support. So many love you and care very deeply as to what is going on with you.<P>I'd like to thank you for keeping up your posting on this thread of yours and letting us know you are there and as well as can be expected.<P>This is time to think about you. Time to repair you, heal you. I know you have the boys to think of, but if you do not take care of Wassi you are not going to be able to take care of the boys. It is that big chain of command thing, or the domino effect. If you take care of you and keep yourself upright, then all the rest of the dominos will stay up right as well. If you don't take care of you, then the rest will follow and fall.<P>The boys are old enough to take care of them selves to a large extent. Now, is the time to nurture you, to do anything and all things that you feel might help you? Do what ever you feel like, be spontaneous...react on a whim. If you feel like doing something that seems a little crazy or selfish, do it. This is the time for Wassi to think of Wassi!<P>Your husband's explanations of what has transpired may or may not be the truth. The thing is how are you to believe him, when he has given you a steady diet of lies? Okay, the only way I can figure out is for you to judge the merit in what he says by your heart and mind. Go on your instincts. Your gut level feelings. They are usually right on aren't they?<P><B>Have you started the bonfire yet?</B> Let me know because I have a few things I can provide to keep the flames going. <P>I am thinking of you nearly continuously. I am praying. I am sending all the positive energy I know how to send.<P>I think someone passed the two by four back to you. Have you used it?<P>I'll be watching for you next post. Keep care my lady, you are a rare and precious jewel. Don't allow what you’re feeling right now to deceive the truth about that. Okay?<P>Hugs,<P><BR>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited October 18, 2000).]

HI Wassi,<BR>Been gone all day, so just catching up. Will send e-mail when done here. <BR>Hmmmm, so he claims to be tying up loose ends? That is how he explains it, bt not at all how you look at it. It is up to him to make sure you see what you need to see at this point. He just does not get this concept. (he wins the densest h award of the month) It is up to him to build the trust, to make you feel important, loved and adored. You have given him the opportunity to do all of this-you have plan Aed better than many of us put together.<BR>In other words, you have done all you could to build the relationship wassi. You have had some very very tough issues placed in your lap, and still been able to keep it all together. <BR>Wassi, how do you feel abt continuing to plan a him, but making it real clear where your personal boundaries are? That is how I dealt with some rather sticky situations with h, and still do. It is pretty hard at first to develop the boundaries because you have to look at SELF. But once you listen to your heart and know what you really want, it all sort of flows. Then share those boundaries with h in a nonthreatening way. Use lots of "I" statements so he understands where you are....and since he seems to be King of the Dense H's these days, you can give some examples! <BR>But be careful-you might be better off with statements that do not contain consequences? Kiss...keep it simple sweetie! Just state what you need and how he can meet those needs? <BR>Wassi, you are going to be fine. YOu are going to keep your family together and have interpersonal growth. You are the strong one, you will be fine. (((((hugs))))) <BR>

Oh Wassi, where is the tears icon when I need it?<P>Know that you are loved.<P>Read Psalm 26.<P>God will vindicate us in His time.<P>I, too, have just learned of more recent contact. I just don't get it, except that it is an addiction.<P>What to do? Move slowly and deliberately and TAKE CARE of yourself.<P>God has NOT called us to be doormats!<P>blessings and hugs,<BR>lizpearl

Hi FHL! (wassi I hope you don't mind me answering FHL's questions here)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>SHA...same question as Peppermint:<BR>I understand what you are saying and agree completely, but how do you apply this day to day in your life?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How much time do you have? This could be a long answer, but I will try to keep it short. <P>There comes a point in this process were you realize a few things:<BR>...there are only so many tears you can cry<BR>...you are doing all you can<BR>...you can't make your spouse love you the way you want to be loved<P>Thankfully, God has granted me peace. When He gives you peace, you view your marriage in a new light. You take control of your life again. <P>I no longer live in fear of losing my wife. In many ways, I have already lost a part of her that can not be recovered. It has taken me a long time to understand that.<P>I think true intimacy is the casuality of infidelity. This one event in our life will always be there. I don't see this ever going away. She is a different lady because of this. I'm a different man from it too. Our marriage is different. <P>Again, I don't think there is any one thing you do, it is by God's grace that He gives you peace about this. That in itself gives you strength to carry on day by day.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How do you give to your marriage, but not put your heart on the butcher block in this long term, dig the trenches and hunker down, recovery process?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is a tough one. If you do something expecting something in return, you aren't giving out of love. The other key is to recognize the things your spouse does for you that is out of love by them. It may not be what you desire, but it may be all they have to offer. <P>In regards to laying your heart on the table, you do have to hold back. There is only so much hurt a person can take. You learn to guard your emotions and open up only to the point where you feel safe. <P>SHA<P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved.

Wassi,<P>I'm sorry for your heartache and pain! Everyone has shared lots of wisdom and like you I read and take it all in. I'm a fighter and I know you are, too. Stick it out, I will if you will.<P>What I have come to conclude after 5 months, is that I want to be the answer to someone's prayers. I hope it's my H's, but if not, there is going to be one helluva lucky guy out there! You hang in there and remember you are someone worth fighting for, and you will be the answer to someone's prayers.<P>Blessings, MT

Hi again Wassi,<P>How are you feeling? Still in shock I would think. I was for about three weeks this time around, until I had a little "confrontation" with the other woman. THEN I got mad, really really mad. That's when I determined that I had enough of living with the hurt caused by the extremely selfish act of two extremely selfish people.<P>Wassi, the number one thing I want you to understand is that your husband does not love the other woman more than he loves you. Instead, he loves HIMSELF more than he loves you. He is getting something from a relationship with the other woman (an ego boost, a cheap thrill, whatever stupid selfish thing it is). Whatever it is, it's a little thing that is not worth the pain he's causing you, but he will continue to do it until he decides to stop.<P>I think you have touched on the real problem here- his willingness to be dishonest. I'm guessing that his habit of lying is not just about the affair, but about anything that he wants to lie about. This is a serious problem, one that is at the heart of this whole thing because affairs can only exist through dishonesty.<P>I would be willing to bet that you are like me in that I think the dishonesty is the most painful part of the affair. Firestorm did not love the other woman, and the affair was not some sex-filled fantasy. I could forgive the fact that he had an affair, but the level of dishonesty that he showed me has done much more damage. I would never have believed that he could look me in the eye and swear to me it was over, while he was actually still seeing her. But he did. And when the affair was revealed again, he did not tell the whole truth. Instead he strung it out over weeks. I'm not sure he has been completely honest yet but there isn't much more that could possibly be told.<P>Here's the thing- firestorm COULD NOT admit the truth to me until he admitted it to himself and he is VERY GOOD at convincing himself of what he wants to be true. He always does this about things that are painful about himself. I have come to believe that firestorm could probably pass a lie detector test because he can actually convince himself of his own lies. That is what makes him such a good liar. Or at least it did, but counseling is really working for him.<P>I have always known that firestorm wasn't completely honest and that he really didn't value the truth the way I do. But I always thought that he was truly honest about the big and important things. I knew that he would, for example, lie about the cost of some "big boy toy" he bought that we really couldn't afford. But I never imagined that he would lie to me about an affair or anything similar, because I trusted him and believed in him. But mostly because I would NEVER do anything like that and couldn't see that he would.<P>When the affair was revealed, I begged him for the whole truth. I wanted him to just get the whole thing out at one time, kind of like ripping off the bandage quickly and getting it over with. But he didn't do that, he got it out piece-by-painful-piece, ripping off the bandage slowly and oh so painfully until he couldn't stand any more of my pain and left the rest just hanging there. That is, I believe, the connection that allowed the affair to restart. The "wall" that I felt between us was not just the lack of trust, but also the lack of truth. That lurking lie turned into a kind of infection that permeated our whole relationship and ate away at firestorm until he became so sick that he went back into the affair and became the evil person that he was during the month of July.<P>Wassi, it is possible that your husband's story of calling the other woman about some property is true, but deep down it was just an excuse to contact her. I know you don't want that to be true, but it is. Our situations are two similar for me to not see that. Firestorm's excuse was because the other woman's little girl (whom we both adore) was in the hospital for serious surgery. He really cared about the little angel, but used it for a reason to talk to the other woman and thus the affair became active again.<P>On our first go round, firestorm refused to send a no contact letter and I did not insist. I should have. This time I did not have to suggest it, he simply wrote it, showed it to his counselor for her input, showed it to me for my input, typed it, signed it, and asked me to mail it for him. I gladly did. THAT WAS IMPORTANT. Refusal to send a no contact letter is the same as refusing to end contact, and it is leaving the door open. I realize that a letter does not guarantee an end to the affair, but it is a written promise to the betrayed spouse, and most liars really don't want to put anything in writing because they don't want to have to admit to being a liar. That's why they always have an excuse ready. The story about the property is an excuse. Don't accept it or let him get away with it. Tell him straight that you don't believe that is the real reason for the calls and that you are no longer accepting his excuses.<P>Firestorm's counselor also believes that his failure to live his life with honesty and integrity is at the heart of this problem, and that the affair is just a symptom of it. She said that his real breakthrough came when he admitted to her that he is a selfish, cheating, liar and that he doesn't want to be those things anymore. She said that just as with any other addiction (and lying is an addiction), admitting the problem is the first and most vital step to recovery, and he is progressing.<P>So there is hope for us, and there is hope for you and your husband. But you both really need some help with this, more than all the friends you have here can give you. Remember, the real problem here is within your husband and no matter how much you love him and try to fix it, you can't. His lack of honesty must be resolved first. If he is unwilling to do that, you are fighting a losing battle and experiencing more damage along the way. You and I know that the truth is the only way to overcome this. Firestorm is finally getting that, and I pray your husband will too.<P>Please let me know if you think of ANYTHING that will help. Our email address is fire2storm@usa.com if we can help in any way.<P>Peppermint

Wow<BR>Sorry it took so long to get back. I know wome of you were worried.<P>Samantha<BR>I'm okay. No bonfire yet. Neither of us got much sleep last night so we are kind of numb. You do make sense. Thank you for caring.<P>cl<BR>I haven't got to my e-mail yet. Will go there next. You have no idea how much your words mean to me. Thank you as always for giving it to me straight. <P>alias<BR>Have I missed something in my lurking? What's up? what contact? Now I am worried about you.<P>SirHa<BR>Thanks for that. I felt peace just reading it. Haven't felt peace for a long time.<P>MT<BR>I so hope you do not have to face the years of lies that I have faced. Thank you for your kind words.<P>peppermint<BR>What you wrote could have been a quote of what I have said to my H. Now that is scary. Especially when you hear what I have to tell you all:<P>I brought my H hear tonight. I asked him if he wanted to read this thread. He read every word. Seems to have got something out of it.<BR>Said he may post something here. I don't know if he will. I told him that even though he saw anger here that y'all would only want to help. I tried to explain what it is like for one of us to read about another going through this.<BR>Maybe this is good. I knew that I had to do something.<P><p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited October 19, 2000).]

<B>Wassi</B><P>It is very late here. Getting bleary eyed. Don't find an icon for that either. I am really glad though that I got up out of bed to check on you. I have a really good feeling from what I just read that you wrote. That is remarkable that your Hubby came here and read each and every word of this thread. I am very proud of him. Am I allowed to say that???????????<P>I sure hope he does end up posting here. He will find so much consideration and support here. Good advise too. <P>Tonight (this morning ) I have a feeling this is a real break through for the two of you. The start of healing...the start of real feelings, truth, and communication.<P>I have to tell you that right now I am praising the Lord all over the place. Of course I am looking at the possitives. You know me the hopeless romantic. <P>I can only imagine how tired and exhausted the both of you are right now. The lack of sleep and the deep emotional drain. Might be a good time to just be real quiet and allow the thoughts to form, waiting for them to flow into words later?<P>Okay, gotta go back to bed. Up and at em early in the morning for me. I still have to tell you though, I have a warm feeling. Peace!!!! That's it. I have a little bit of precious peace over this. Only time will tell if my thoughts are right.<P>In a few days I will have to e-mail you. I haven't told you this yet, but your latest D-day has hit something in me. It is a good and possitive thing. I haven't formed all the thoughts and processes yet clearly in my mind, but I am working on it. Soon as it makes a bit of sense, and I think your ready, I will e-mail you.<P>God allows awful things to happen in our lives, we learn and grow from them. In the end though some good comes out of it. I think we are going to see some pretty fruit out of this whole thing.<P>Hugs to you honey, and one respectful hug to your Hubby too. He done good coming here. Had to take a lot of courage. Especially to keep reading.<P>Well as usual, I have talked on and on. I'll be checking in on you first thing in the a.m. Until then, God be with you and yours. <P>Love ya, a whole bunch. <P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited October 19, 2000).]

Wassi,<P>I am glad he read this !! I hope you pointed out that some of the people who posted are men. Sometimes they listen better when it isn't coming from us. I think it's that way with Mike because he sees anything I say about the things he does as me trying to *control* him. But if someone else says the same thing he can accept it. ::shrug:: <P>Course now you h will probablly not let you play with me anymore . I haven't been a very nice girl in here, sorry about that Mr Wassi's H, it's not that I hate you, it's that your w has become a very dear friend to me and it upset me to see she was hurting so badly again . She is a very special woman and she loves you you know. Please think about that and don't hurt her anymore please.

I'm going to bed, too.<P>Forgive me for not asking before I posted to your H, I probably should have.<P>Just in case he comes here again, I just wanted him to see we would encourage him.

Morning wassi,<BR>just sending hugs and lots of positive energy for the day! Glad h came by for a visit!!! Baby steps.<BR>(((((hugs)))))