Alrighty, I suppose I am one of those parties that holds a somewhat stereotypical view of WS's. I come here seeking information on why & what might cause WS's irrational behavior. In my home, the WS doesn’t want to discuss anything. She just wants to carry on as before wanting me to believe that the A is over. So asking generic or stereotypical questions is my only means of trying to get a clue and I appreciate all WS's viewpoints (whacked/ or not).<P>The only differentiating factors I see in WS's is some wake up before it's too late and others don’t care if they ever wake up at all. Sorry for the simplistic black and white view but that's how I see it. As for my WS, she appears to be trying to unseat Rip Van Winkle with her self-authored fable.<P>Once again thank you for your opinions.<BR>

I wanted to kill myself. I guess that's expressing remorse. <P>I still, to this day, feel terrible about the whole thing. I will have regret for it the rest of my life. The pain lessons a bit, but I can still cry about it... and in fact, am, at this very moment. I hated myself.<P>My stbx, who is also a WS (5 times over) feels a "kind" of remorse, but his is borne out of religious fervor right now. Maybe that's not fair, I guess he does feel bad for what he's done to me, but he never did seem to realize the pain his cheating caused me until he was on the other side.<P>I know that remorse makes all the difference in repairing a marriage. Either that, or the BS has to turn a blind eye, which I did for years. I asked, he sorta answered, and we went on. It wasn't until I cheated that he told me the whole truth about the 3 women from the 80's. I guess we could have made it then, but he decided to cheat some more, and the rest, as they say, is history.<P>Doesn't mean I'm hap-hap-happy about it. Quite the contrary. <P>But... I have met someone new, and the best part about it is, we have no history. No hurt, no cheating, nothing but a new love. And I have to say, it feels nice.

Hi all,<P>While it is true that there are many betrayers who are sorry (for whatever reason), there are not that many who have a true, honest, soul-shattering regret for the betrayal. HG Brawner's husband has that. I think there is a POSSIBILITY that firestorm's remorse goes that deep (this time). Far too many betrayer's either are flat-out not sorry, or have the "I'm sorry so let's pretend it didn't happen" attitude. Some betrayers are somewhat better than that, but still do not do nearly enough to help the healing process.<P>I can tell you from the experience of trying to get over this affair TWICE, that having a husband that is truly, deep-down sorry for the betrayal and makes MY recovery his top priority is far better than the "I said I was sorry, now you need to move on" variety of "recovery".<P>Firestorm IS an exception, and so are many other betrayers. Let's not make this topic something that it isn't. Besides, no matter how regretful any betrayer is, it can never take the infidelity back.<P>Peppermint

Okay, I had to jump on here - again - not to defend any one person BS or WS. I think we can agree that every WS is different - just as every FS is different.<P>For me, I felt so much remorse that not only did I think about ending my life, I tried to. Not something I would normally admit to, but hey, I thought maybe it was pertinent. I was so overwhelmed with guilt, regret, feelings of worthlessness, that even into recovery, I thought it was too much to bear. That I only got one shot in life, and I just screwed it up. For I had treated the one person that truly loved me worse than, well, worse than anyone deserved to be treated (much less my H). Don't worry, I'm not writing this from the psych ward or anything, but some betrayers really can fall into a pit of despair - not only about their marriage, but about themselves.<P>I do think that the key to recovery - at least from my perspective - is feeling sorry - not only for the hurt your FS feels, but for everything - the lies, the cheating. Yeah, it hurt your spouse, and you should be very sorry for that, but you also have to know that what you did was wrong - that lying is wrong, that cheating behind someone's back is wrong, that adultery is wrong, that breaking a vow is wrong. <P>Knowing right from wrong - feeling that what you did was wrong - that to me is the difference between me and another WS who may be sorry and feel regret. And, taking responsibility for your actions, that's another big thing. . . <P>Some people - not only WSs - but people in general, just refuse to see the "error of their ways." So, I think you can even be sorry for what you did and still not "have a clue." Sometimes, you just have to know that what you did was wrong, plain and simple. That it is NOT acceptable no matter what we see on TV or in the movies. When our nation's leadership is doing it, that does not mean that it is right. It doesn't make it acceptable. <P>To me, it seems like some WSs try to rationalize their behavior - they pass the buck, make excuses "nobody's perfect" is a universal generalization to make us feel like - well, heck, everybody screws up once in a while. While that is true, you still need to be sorry for what you did - that which was wrong. Some people even try to alleviate their guilt by saying - God just wants me to be happy. He'll forgive me anyway, so this can't be wrong. In the end everything will work out.<P>Where the frustration comes, at least in my opinion, is that some WSs - if they are even human - feel bad that they have caused their spouse pain. Deep down, I think they feel it. But to me, if you're really going to make changes, the WS also has to take responsibility for what they did. They need to take responsibility that yes, I caused someone else pain and that was wrong, but lying, being deceitful - that is wrong, too. It's like you have to be accountable not only to your spouse, but to yourself, too. <P>I guess my point is - every person is different. For every WS that doesn't feel remorse, there is one that is willing to take her life to save her H from any further pain. For every FS who is hurt, there is probably another FS who doesn't give a flying fig about the infidelity. It all comes down to values, morals and beliefs.<P>You cannot categorize all WSs just as you cannot categorize all FSs - each person is different. As a betrayer, I have no problem with people venting or telling horror stories - it doesn't offend me at all because I know that I am becoming a better person. . .I know that I do not fit into those stereotypes of a WS. . .While some of the things I went through and things that I may had said could be "stereotypical" of a WS, I am not like anyone else.<P>I guess I don't mind generalizations like all WSs stink - it doesn't really bother me. It does bother me, that maybe a WS who is remorseful, who is extremaly sorry for what he/she has done, and who is on his or her "last rope" may read some of these threads and REALLY feel lost. They really will lose hope that they can become a better person, and that's really sad.<P>Please don't get me wrong, I think this board was meant for venting. I don't do the venting post-thing - just because the situation between my H and I is so much better now. . .And this site has saved me, in many respects, but I guess when we start saying this person is worse than that one, it kind of has a negative impact on hope.<P>I guess that' why I don't mind getting trashed too much, because I know that I am at a different point in my self-discovery/recovery than a lot of people. But, we all started out somewhere, I guess. Apologizing for hurt that you have caused is important - it shows compassion. Apologizing for doing the wrong thing is equally inportant - it shows integrity. And I really think you need both to get through this.<P>So, sorry for the rambling post - it kind of jumped around a lot I know, bottom line. . .we cannot change anything here - as much as I'd like to have a talk with some of the WSs myself, I cannot change how they think or feel. . .The only thing we can do here is to encourage each other, support each other through the rough times. I feel I get that everyday, and I am so thankful for that. . .A little encouragement goes a long way, and it may mean that we have to encourage WSs versus classify them. We have to support FSs versus agree with them (not that their wrong, that didn't come out right). Sometimes, we just need to listen with an open mind and heart.<P>I guess that's it. . .for what it's worth.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by peppermint:<BR><B>.<BR>...having a husband that is truly, deep-down sorry for the betrayal and makes MY recovery his top priority is far better than the "I said I was sorry, now you need to move on" variety of "recovery". Firestorm IS an exception, and so are many other betrayers.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ah, yes! This is what I was going for but crashed and burned on! Thanks, Pepperment!<P>I personally <I>adore</I> anyone who takes full responsiblity for their mistakes, verbalizes their remorse and strives to make amends. And I totally agree, some WS do--like many mentioned here. Firestorm just happens to express himself in a way that most BS here would do cartwheels over if it came from their own WS! <P>The view Mercy expressed--while it is clearly her right to express it and I mean no disrespect--it just breaks my heart for her husband.<P> And there are alot more WS out there who feel the way she does. I <I>personally</I> know and love some WS' who continue to be insensitive, impatient, and self centered when faced with their BS' pain. (My beloved SIL, my close girlfriend and yes, even the OW in our case.) And THAT is the group I was referring to that paled in comparison to fs and his recovery efforts with peppermint. <P> As "kam" mentioned, Harley says to NOT expect an apology. It usually never comes.<P>And I think that is just too sad. I think you could knock off <B>months</B> of pain, resentment, trust and insecurity issues in the recovery process if only it could somehow be incorporated in the marriage re-building plan. <P>------------------<BR><I>No rain, no rainbows</I><P>P.S. Khyra, glad to hear you're ok, "this week". I know exactly how that goes. I feel I can only determine my successes in those increments, or smaller! And when I have a setback--it feels like it encompasses the entire 6 months of our recovery!<P>BTW, you're first two-sentence response back to me was ALSO exactly what I meant! Geesh--I was not having a very eloquent day that day, was I? How one little unclear sentence caused so much hurt--almost makes me scared to post anything! <P>I said <I>almost!</I><P><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited October 25, 2000).]

SKM to the rescue, once again. You said it, babe. <P>It just sucks feeling like no matter what you do, no matter how sorry you are for what or how very deeply you love, it will never never be enough - that you will always be under the thumb, to quote the Rolling Stones.<P> <P>Lei I hope you never stop being so gracefully outspoken. <P>Hi, one day, you may be able to pull back from your pain enough to realize that not everyone is like your spouse. Asking generalized questions is not a problem, but you must comprehend that not everyone's minds work alike. The reasons behind our infidelities and even the ways in which we carried it all out are all unique. <P>I just try to help in any way I can - one more way in which I not only express remorse, but try to help others in some way ...<BR>Thought that would have spoken for itself.<P>Khyra