<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>Could it be what you hear is "you aren't good enough"? Even though he may not have thought that at all. In fact, it sounds like he would like to have you both. I know my h would have and has often wished he lived in the old days when men were openly polygamous.<P>You know in your head, what he is doing is about HIM, not you. But you still FEEL the rejection.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, he probably would like to live with both of us at the same time (assuming we didn't kill each other....). And his saying how "nice" she is, does feel like he's rejected me and doesn't think I'm nice or good enough. <P>I think part of why he says that is for bolster his own self-esteem....he knows at some level, that what he's doing is wrong and to build her up in anyway, helps to build him and his faulty decisions up.<P>Anyway....I've not suffered from self-esteem issues much before in my life, so this type of rejection is especially hard for me. The bad news is, when I did suffer from self-esteem issues in the past, it was always in regards to a boyfriend...so to have the one person who I finally thought I could trust do this to me is really crappy and reinforces all those negative (and false) feelings that you just can't trust men. I have to really fight against that, even tho all the evidence in my life so far points to the opposite.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I'm now working daily to recenter myself, to feel good about myself apart from him.<P>Am I way off here, or is this maybe something you could focus more on?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, you've hit the nail on the head. I need to learn how to separate his actions from my re-actions and know that how I handle this situation, my reactions and my future is up to me. I will try to again center myself (hard to do when every little thing throws you off balance) and focus on what God wants me to learn thru this....and on how God sees me.<P>But as lonesome heart says, it's hard to hear God sometimes....I just don't feel that I can trust what I would perceive as God's still, small voice to me these days. I too think I'm turning things over to Him, but how do I know if I really am....are my prayers selfish? Am I still holding onto something that God wants me to let go of?<P>Anyway, these are all questions I wrestle with....as I'm sure you all do to. The comment about limboland actually helped me remember that I'm in the middle of some process....and when you're in the middle, sometimes things look very disarrayed and messy and you just don't see how anything good can come from the mess (think of baking a cake). So I'm going to try to give myself a break, try not to "box" God in and be centered and open to what He might show me that is outside of my little mindset...<P>Thanks, all, for your comments....I do feel much better today.<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

What kinds of things can anyone suggest on how to get centered? I don't know about the rest of you, but I keep clinging to the belief that I need a dramatic miracle to pull me out of this pit I'm in. I suspect the real solution is taking small steps to recovery and staying committed to the process. But then I worry about "getting in the way" of my own recovery. <P>Mrs. O, I'm glad you're feeling better today. Can you identify what makes today different from yesterday?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lonesome heart:<BR><B>What kinds of things can anyone suggest on how to get centered? I don't know about the rest of you, but I keep clinging to the belief that I need a dramatic miracle to pull me out of this pit I'm in. I suspect the real solution is taking small steps to recovery and staying committed to the process. But then I worry about "getting in the way" of my own recovery.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think what helps me is to visualize myself on a merry-go-round....when something happens to throw me off balance (triggers, moods, my own thoughts, worry....it's hard because of centrifuigal (?) force to get back to the center....it's a fight. But I visualize Jesus or the cross standing in the center and once I make it there, I just cling.<P>Unfortunately when I start feeling better, I usually let go and get knocked off again! I use alot of visualization for concepts (maybe that's why I'm a graphic designer!)<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Mrs. O, I'm glad you're feeling better today. Can you identify what makes today different from yesterday?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>To be honest, it's all you guys responses to me....it's really hard for me reach out to others. I almost forgot I could. Just all the reminders that this is a process...that it's okay to let go of my H....that it's okay to feel the way I do...that it's okay to hurt, miss him, cry, want to end my life...etc. It's "normal" for a person in my situation to feel this way and that lots of you guys here also feel that way. You guys are as real to me as my own friends. Maybe even more real, because someone is always willing to listen.<P>On my 45-minute drive home last night, I heard the end of a sermon on the radio, and the speakers said "Satan will do everything in his power to push you right up to the edge of the cliff, but he doesn't have the power or authority to push you off. Only you can do that." It made me think....he has been pushing me (and alot of others) around alot lately...bombarding my mind with negative, scarry, painful thoughts. It is almost like I've gotten pushed to the edge....but it's up to me to either jump or deal with him. I don't really want to jump, but dealing with him is hard, so I again, visualized myself laying at the edge of the cliff, all weak and hurting, and Jesus stepping in and beating the crap out of him.<P>Made me feel a little better by the time I reached home!<P>Try visualization for all these concepts....getting out of the way, centering, focusing....think of real-life situations when you have to do that and then apply them to your feelings, thoughts, etc.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P>PS Man....I'm starting to sound like I AM feeling better....I'm even giving advice! HA! So different than my first post in this thread...weird.

Mrs. O,<P>Glad to hear you are feeling better. It has been a very hard lesson for me, but even if my h told me I was ugly, awful, etc., it doesn't make it so. I've learned, for instance, that my parents still don't want to be the loving, supportive people I need. For the first time, it clicked that it was something inside THEM, it was not because I'm not worthy...<P>lonesome, you are asking tough questions. I will attempt a reply, though it may make you even more uncomfortable.<P>After 30 years as a Christian and ten years of hard study of the NT in the original language, I've come to some conclusions that are different from much of what I heard at church.<P>The idea of us turning it over to Him and getting out of the way is not in the Bible at all! Get out of the way of living my life? How? Believe me, I tried for years to live that way. I would make as few decisions as possible while looking for God to move.<P>Then I swung too far the other way and lived as if God wasn't involved in my life at all.<P>There are two things we are clearly told to pray for, wisdom in living our lives and strength to do what we need to do.<P>We can pray for our WS to turn around, but God will NOT override his free will. God has given us many choices. In fact, the concept of a Mr. Right is not in the Bible either. I agree with JL that there are a # of Mr. Rights. God has given us moral guidelines, but left most of the choices to us. This can be pretty scary at first. From unimportant things like what color shirt we wear to bigger things like our job, where we live, IT'S UP TO US!<P>The important thing of recognizing this is that we take ownership of our lives. After all, we will have to give an account to God one day.<P>As I implied in my previous post, whether our h's are home or not, I am having to learn the tough lesson of not finding my happiness in him. Yes, he meets certain important needs, but he used to be my entire world. If he was down, I was down. I've heard that described as emotional fusion.<P>Mrs. O, keep praying for him to come back. But what will you do if he doesn't? How long will you wait? Can you start now to find your validation in God's love and even in your own? It sounds crazy, but I realized the importance of giving MYSELF the love I needed. I will look in the mirror sometimes and tell myself I love me. This is to counter all the negative self-talk that I am worthless because h did this or today "made me feel bad by ignoring me or whatever". <P>You still have a full and wonderful (though certainly not pain free) life ahead of you. You can break *out of the box* and prayerfully and carefully take charge of your life. I seriously considered taking a bottle of 300 pills in Oct '99. I could not have envisioned the life I had today. I felt I had nothing to live for, despite my two wonderful kids (6 and 3). Instead, I found a strength I didn't know I possessed. When h said he wanted to leave (right before d-day when he confessed two affairs spanning 18 months behind my back on his trips), I told him I didn't want him to but would not hang on to him. I've been growing that strength ever since.<p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited December 07, 2000).]

Dear schizzo,<P>Thanks for your response. I've been a Christian basically all my life, but since I knowingly turned my life over to him at 13 (I'm 44). As you know, the Bible is a book that you can read over and over and still have new things revealed to you. I am always interested in other people's intrepretations of scripture, so I wanted to ask you a coupla questions:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>We can pray for our WS to turn around, but God will NOT override his free will. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There is scripture in the OT talking about God turning the king's heart....I think referring to Nebecanezer (?) as well as when God hardened Pharoah's heart. These men both had free will, and yet it seems that God overroad that for His purposes....what is your take on this?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The idea of us turning it over to Him and getting out of the way is not in the Bible at all! Get out of the way of living my life? How? Believe me, I tried for years to live that way. I would make as few decisions as possible while looking for God to move.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There are, however, many reference in the Bible to "waiting on God" and in I Samuel 12:16, He says to "stand still and see the great thing the Lord will do before your eyes." I think this is where the "getting out of the way" comes from. Also the NT talks about casting all our burdens on Him, which refers to turning things over to Him. You are right, however, that we need to keep on living, but the choices we make must be made with wisdom (from Him) and in His time. Would you agree?<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>God has given us many choices. In fact, the concept of a Mr. Right is not in the Bible either. I agree with JL that there are a # of Mr. Rights. God has given us moral guidelines, but left most of the choices to us. This can be pretty scary at first. From unimportant things like what color shirt we wear to bigger things like our job, where we live, IT'S UP TO US!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>While I guess I must have known this before (re: choices), I am beginning to understand this concept at a different level. Thanks again for reminding me that God doesn't have it all "scripted" out ahead of time. Just because He knows our future, doesn't mean He's "making" it happen. It helps me to understand how my H could have made the choices he did.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Mrs. O, keep praying for him to come back. But what will you do if he doesn't? How long will you wait? Can you start now to find your validation in God's love and even in your own? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am continuing to pray for him and for him to come back even. However, I guess I have decided to move on in reality....not to hang on that as the only option...the only answer. So I'm not WAITING per se, but I'm learning how to trust God for whatever I face in the future....be it him coming back, or not. I do have a wonderful life and although right now, I feel like I'm in limbo and get very lonely for him, I'm trying to remember to take one day at a time and to seek God for His wisdom for each day.<P>Can I ask you another question: As a fellow Christian...what is your opinion on divorce and re-marriage? <P>Thanks again. Better get back to work...<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited December 07, 2000).]

Mrs O,<P>I only have a little time as I have to get ready for a trip.<P>There are a few instances of God "hardening" hearts. Just makes it that more difficult to settle how God is sovereign and our choices count can be reconciled. I have spent years trying and finally realize He never told us, maybe if we need to know, He would have. I agree with much of the teachings in the systematic theology of the PCA presby, but still, that is not what God left us. He left us His Word mostly in narrative true life stories.<P>As to divorce and remarriage. Jesus said that He permitted divorce in the case of adultery. That's all it says...We may decide (as I have) that if He permits divorce, it implies remarriage.<P>I believe that the marriage covenant was nullified the DAY my h first crossed the line (and this may not be the day he had sex). He is here and she is gone, but I am living day to day. I may really NEED a second "exchange of vows", but he asks why? It didn't stop him the first time. He is right that what is really important is what is in our hearts, and he claims he has learned from this, and though he still struggles with lust, he will not cheat again.