My wife just called, and I'll make a long story short. I'm going to get the kids tonight (Sat.)....horray! I can't wait to see them. A guy that works for same company as her has gutted her bathroom, and is working on it this evening (this is true). Whether he is tomorrow (as I said in another post...is debatable). Anyway, there will be noise tonight, so I'm taking them now for 4 days.<P>Here is the strange part. She is very concerned that I'll use this against her. She is afraid I think she just wants to not have them. Even though she is in the fog, I don't believe she wants to send them back a day early. She was hedging on keeping them there anyway. She told me that I am "different" now, hence her concern. Wonders if I have some ulterior motive. Is this just normal fog junk, or has she noticed that I am in the hybrid A/B, or what? I'm not sure. I'm not sending cards and doing alot of stuff like that anymore. Just doing my own thing. Oh, one other thing. She said she would like me to see the bathroom, "since you never believe anything I say". How do I respond to that? She is so full of lies, but keeps coming out with these silly statements about me not believing what she says. Hard to believe lies.<P>She asked if I'm bored, asked if I met anyone, asked if I'm lonely, and asked how busy I am. I don't get the impression that these questions or the answers mean anything to her, seems more curiosity than anything else. Who knows though.<P>She called herself "a concerned friend" in our conversation, can't remember what the context was. She said she gives it a month and I'll have "met someone". I reiterated that my position has not changed. She knows what that is. She said there is nothing wrong with finding someone. I didn't really want to hear that.<P>But she is very down for the most part. Not sounding really cheery. Complains about all the problems in her house, money is tight, she works one weekend, and is off the next. So the one she is off, she has the kids. Seemed discouraged that she can't get stuff done on weekends, because one she has the kids, the other she works, so it is hard.<P>Is this just the usual WS stuff? Guess it must be analysis day for me or something, because there is nothing earth shattering going on, but I'm evaluating it anyway. Thanks for listening.<P>I'll be relaxing tonight knowing my beautiful children are sleeping all cosy in their beds upstairs. I'm getting mushy now...sorry.

Rick - the alien abduction scrambled her brains, remember? I wouldn't dwell on a single statement she makes. One, she's in a fog bank; two, she's a woman (sorry ladies). Enjoy your kids or bring 'em over to my house and we'll smoke cigars and play poker.<P>WAT

I agree with the last response, you can't take what she says as solid. But, she's obviously thinking about you and concerned about what you think. So, taking care of yourself seems to be working. Keep doing everything to help yourself and the things you enjoy. Glad you got the kids!<P>------------------<BR>

Hey Rick,<P>OK, tell your W to give the script back to my W before she finds out it's missing .<P>I think this is all textbook fog junk. I heard every one of these statements too, and you just can't try to read anything into it.<P>My W oscillates from looking at a house for rent (so she can move out) to talking about a family trip in the summer or some home improvement project that we would do next year...She said she missed me, after returning from a business trip, then proceeded to go sleep in a separate bedroom. She told me the thought of being intimate with me makes her sick to her stomach, then initiated intimacy two weeks later...<P>I also think you are seeing the classic reality of being separated. She moved out to get her space and happiness, and guess what? It's not all roses (duh) and she's still unhappy (duh). Perhaps she is seeing that her unhappiness was not only due to being stuck with you ( ), but also due to her own baggage (duh).<P>I think you should just go on doing what you're doing; being friendly and positive. My only concern is whether my W (and yours) will ever be able to find the courage or strength to admit to herself that she made a mistake in thinking that the marriage was doomed, in finding an OM, and in separating. That to me is the $1,000,000 question. My W has already indicated that she's the kind of person that just might go through with the divorce to "prove" that she was right that the marriage was doomed and that thus it was OK to have an affair. I just ignore that kind of nonsense.<P>Good luck, you're right on track.<P>AGG

Hmmm - maybe she's finally seeing that there are other things besides herself. I don't know, but isn't it nice knowing that your kids are right where they belong?

Rick,<P>My Wife used to talk the same way, in circles! Same stuff, I'm moving out then can we add on to the house next year. This would happen in the same conversation. Used to drive me up a wall. Just look at it this way she is probably telling you what she is really thinking about and what you are hearing is a play by play of the battle going on in her head. I personally think it's good to see the battle. To me it means you have presented an option to her that is not as easy to walk away from as she once thought it would be. <P>Try this out if listening to her causes you grief. Next time pretend there is a little Howard Cosell in your head describing your conversations like calling the play by play of a football game. "It's looking bad for the home team.. 3rd and 45" "Hard count..here's the snap…OMG.. She threw a hail Mary toward the end zone….It's up for grabs….The visitors came down with the ball and are running it back. ….on the 10…20…will you look at this [censored] (From Jimmy the Greek) run….30….40….50… can anyone stop him…..he trips and fumbles….The home team recovers and the ball is downed. " "You can tell the visiting coach is not happy…The home teams trying to get the next play off before…Oh too late…they've called for the instant replay" <P>You get the idea. Might help keep a smile on your face when she decides to fertilize your life again and it also helps you to continue looking interested in the conversation. <P>Good guy….My wife originally lost the script in question…quit writing about it…she might hear it's over at your place and try to come get it back!!!!<P>Have a great Sunday!!! Oh yea Go Bucs!!!!<P><p>[This message has been edited by Hi Infidelity (edited December 10, 2000).]

Rick<P>Hope you enjoy your Sunday with your kids! Think of it as a gift of time with them that you would otherwise not have. Go do something special with them, if you can.<P>Off topic, do you have snow? If so throw a few snowballs for me, would you?

Where'd that script go? Must be around here someplace! I know she's been reading it. Need to get this hot potato and keep it away from these women before they contaminate someone else.<P>WAT

Thanks everyone. I've had fun with my kids. We got a bit of snow, and I pulled them around in the sleds this morning. I wish my wife would receive her mind back and join us. Oh well.<P>Now I get it, they got smart and made copies of the script so they could all have one. We should buy them all surprise plane tickets to a resort, and plan their seating to be all together. We'll get the pilot to say "Welcome aboard all you WS...we hope you enjoy this ride as much as the one you are currently on".<P>Man is she miserable though. All kinds of things wrong with her house. Must be a bit of reality drifting in her front door. She said this morning, that she hopes the kids don't get a bit older and stop wanting to see her. My 2 year old told her on the phone that she doesn't want to go back there, so my wife was unhappy about that. How does that go WAT, something about paying the toll?

Rick<P>This is very typical behaviour of a WS I got all the same stuff about me going out and meeting someone else. She is fishing to find out if you have met someone. It's the old story that they feel they don't want you but they really deep in there hearts that they don't want anyone else to have you either.<P>About all her problems she has discussed with you, my W continually downloaded problems on to me. This is part of the emotional needs that you were giving her prior to her leaving that she may be no longer receiving. So she tries to still receive those needs from you even from afar. Plan A would dictate that you be a sympathetic ear to those problems and by doing so you have gone a long way to supporting her emotionally which is what she is seeking.<P>The fact that you are no longer sending cards and always being available will be a notable change to her and thus all the questions to find out where you are at in life. Sound a bit like the LRT technique by Warner-Davis<P>Hang in ther Rick, it seems from the sound of it that she is still very much ambivalent about the marriage and given time the marriage has the advantage over OM. <P>It is indeed early days yet for you.<P>Colin<BR>

OOOO I wanted to add my 2 cents worth. When my wife asked if i was going to start dating other people, I told her that I still loved her and I couldn't do that. When she asked me what I would do when we were divorced, I told her I would have the kids half the time and the other half would be for hobbies, recreation, and maybe a part-time job to make ends meet. I would have a life to go on to. She even told me today that we get along so well that maybe we just are better for each other living apart, as good friends.<BR>I told her that won't work. I said that I will always want her as a love interest. I am afraid that to live like that would make me angry at her for not returning the love and affection. It would not be good for either one of us. OM's divorce is mon. (12/11/00).<BR>They certainly are not logical

Hey, just thought I'd squash all those theories about there being a script! lol. It's more like a Stephen King novel that he kind of makes things up as he goes along, and you never really know how it ends until he's finished. It's just that most of us WSs are not that original - that's why it sounds like the same crapola.<P>Rick, for your situation. . .I think reality is setting in hard. . .You know what's funny? It may not sound like progress, but as an outsider. . .at the beginning, your wife didn't give you a second thought, now she's wondering - even speculating about your potential love life. You know, you may not have a copy of her "script" but you have your own cliff notes - - -ME!! lol.<P>She's asking questions about - not the kids -but you. . .Yeah, maybe you haven't been the same Plan A Doormat and reality is setting in, but she's thinking. And when a WS starts thinking, stand back. . .I think the important thing is to keep reminding her of YOUR goals. Yes, you have a life, but you want her in it - it's her choice that she's not right now - you hope that changes.<P>Personnally, I think you have more staying power than the OM - so just hang in there. As a few eeks go by, you may notice evn more changes in her attitude. Life isn't so easy when you don't have anyone around who loves and cares about you - and helps you take care of those little things. You just want to be careful that she doesn't feel like she's burned a bridge by moving out.<P>You know, enjoy the time with your kids. I hope she doesn't miss out on too much. . .Right now, that's the biggest regret I have - spending too much time in the fog, too much time feeling withdrawl, remorse, etc. . .And I don't have kids. . .I regret all the time I spent away from my H - mentally - she has kids, too. It's going to be hard on her if she ever does come around - so just make sure that she doesn't think it is easier to just chuck it all and move on.<P>Be the same old Rick - kind, loving, patient, and handy with putting up curtains !

Hey, just thought I'd squash all those theories about there being a script! lol. It's more like a Stephen King novel that he kind of makes things up as he goes along, and you never really know how it ends until he's finished. It's just that most of us WSs are not that original - that's why it sounds like the same crapola.<P>Rick, for your situation. . .I think reality is setting in hard. . .You know what's funny? It may not sound like progress, but as an outsider. . .at the beginning, your wife didn't give you a second thought, now she's wondering - even speculating about your potential love life. You know, you may not have a copy of her "script" but you have your own cliff notes - - -ME!! lol.<P>She's asking questions about - not the kids -but you. . .Yeah, maybe you haven't been the same Plan A Doormat and reality is setting in, but she's thinking. And when a WS starts thinking, stand back. . .I think the important thing is to keep reminding her of YOUR goals. Yes, you have a life, but you want her in it - it's her choice that she's not right now - you hope that changes.<P>Personnally, I think you have more staying power than the OM - so just hang in there. As a few eeks go by, you may notice evn more changes in her attitude. Life isn't so easy when you don't have anyone around who loves and cares about you - and helps you take care of those little things. You just want to be careful that she doesn't feel like she's burned a bridge by moving out.<P>You know, enjoy the time with your kids. I hope she doesn't miss out on too much. . .Right now, that's the biggest regret I have - spending too much time in the fog, too much time feeling withdrawl, remorse, etc. . .And I don't have kids. . .I regret all the time I spent away from my H - mentally - she has kids, too. It's going to be hard on her if she ever does come around - so just make sure that she doesn't think it is easier to just chuck it all and move on.<P>Be the same old Rick - kind, loving, patient, and handy with putting up curtains !

Hey, just thought I'd squash all those theories about there being a script! lol. It's more like a Stephen King novel that he kind of makes things up as he goes along, and you never really know how it ends until he's finished. It's just that most of us WSs are not that original - that's why it sounds like the same crapola.<P>Rick, for your situation. . .I think reality is setting in hard. . .You know what's funny? It may not sound like progress, but as an outsider. . .at the beginning, your wife didn't give you a second thought, now she's wondering - even speculating about your potential love life. You know, you may not have a copy of her "script" but you have your own cliff notes - - -ME!! lol.<P>She's asking questions about - not the kids -but you. . .Yeah, maybe you haven't been the same Plan A Doormat and reality is setting in, but she's thinking. And when a WS starts thinking, stand back. . .I think the important thing is to keep reminding her of YOUR goals. Yes, you have a life, but you want her in it - it's her choice that she's not right now - you hope that changes.<P>Personnally, I think you have more staying power than the OM - so just hang in there. As a few weeks go by, you may notice even more changes in her attitude. Life isn't so easy when you don't have anyone around who loves and cares about you - and helps you take care of those little things. You just want to be careful that she doesn't feel like she's burned a bridge by moving out.<P>You know, enjoy the time with your kids. I hope she doesn't miss out on too much. . .Right now, that's the biggest regret I have - spending too much time in the fog, too much time feeling withdrawl, remorse, etc. . .And I don't have kids. . .I regret all the time I spent away from my H - mentally - she has kids, too. It's going to be hard on her if she ever does come around - so just make sure that she doesn't think it is easier to just chuck it all and move on.<P>Be the same old Rick - kind, loving, patient, and handy with putting up curtains !

SKM - can I assume that since your reply to Rick was duplicated that I could use the extra? A notable difference between Rick's wife and mine is that mine asks no questions about my life. For example, a few weeks ago I got called to NIH, (remember?) as a potential marrow donor. This is a big deal. I told my wife who was initially excited, but not one question since whether I was going to be used or not (turns out I'm not). But she has agreed to talk with Harley about me - starting right now at 11:00!<P>WAT

WAT - Ooops. I need to go delete those "extras" but one can go to inlimbo, too! lol.<P>Hey, I'm saying a prayer right now for you and your wife. I hope it goes okay with the Harleys, but don't get discouraged if it doesn't right away. . .

SKM - thanks for being here. I left a long message on my post to WSs based on your and Khyra's recognition on the part my son's death plays in this. Please don't leave us!<P>WAT

I'll have to disagree with SKM about the existence of a script, 'cause my W's got TWO copies!<P>Rick, your W is doing some of the same things mine is doing, and I've figured out the pattern. She is also miserable in her new place, though she won't admit it. She also vascillates between hating our house and missing our house. She is alternately cold to me, then sympathetic. She insists there is no hope for our marriage, then turns around and says "never say never."<P>For my W, the sudden changes in direction coincide with her contact with OM. Since he lives so far away, and their schedules don't allow much phone contact (usually only on Saturdays), she drifts back to me during their "off" times. In other words, he carries the fog with him, and it only clears (briefly) when she can't talk to him. <P>What I tried to look for in my W was a pattern of behaviour. I think I've found it, now I just need to interrupt the pattern. If nothing else, figuring out the pattern has helped me cope with her seemingly random changes in attitude. For example, if she goes of to Vegas for a weekend (where OM lives), then I can expect deep, deep fog when she returns, and I'll generally avoid talking about "us."<P>Just something to make you think...

cjack - I think you're on to something and it makes sense. I tried to forecast the fog in a similar manner, but I couldn't determine with very much confidence when the "on" and "off" times were. Maybe we can get The Weather Channel to gin up one of their cool maps like the one for indoor humidity that displays areas of indoor fog.<P>WAT

Actually its a lousy forecasting tool! It kind of works in reverse. If she's being cold and distant, I say "ahhh...talked to OM last night, huh?" I'm usually right. This only has predictive power when I know for sure she's going to see him.<P>But yeah, I'd love to see what the fog would look like on radar.