Beth,<P>I'm sorry that it had to come down to that..<BR>I know how hard that was..but your right..<BR>you have to protect yourself..<P>My prayers are with you..

Beth,<P>I imagine you on on your way to El Paso as I write this...I just wanted to check in.<P>Hope your time there was a good rest for you..you need it hon.<P>I just wanted to tell you how proud I am of you. You have done so much work on yourself, and Beth, it's paying off. You are refusing to be sucked into the madness of your husbands life. You see that your children need some stability. You know how tough this will be on them...shore up girl...it'll be tough. Be prepared to almost minister to them only over the next few weeks. There will be tummy aches at school, lots of questions about why, they will be shell shocked, and your attentions will be 100% turned toward your children for a while. I'm not trying to scare you, but I've been there, am still there, and as hard as this will be on you, it's harder on them.<P>I'm not saying you're doing the wrong thing...at all here. You're not. You are obviously clear on this. I can tell you've turned the corner and have decided to stop living in crazy-land. And let me tell you, it feels good to leave that place. Having a warm body next to you at night that turns away from you is much worse than having no one there at all. Plan A will be easier for you now. Your H will probably be on his best behavior when he comes around...it will be a lot easier to stop mothering him and let him emerge, on his own, into the man he is supposed to be.<P>Just be prepared to spend a lot of time with the kids now...they will need you so much.<P>allison

Prayers for you & your kids & your H also.

Hello,<BR>I've been keeping up to date on this thread and would like to chime in as a husband of an addictive wife. <P>So many of your stories sound like I wrote them myself. My wife has suffered from depression over our financial situation for years. I started my own business 6 years ago, with little support from her. I should have taken her feelings into account more but i didn't. At the time I saw my actions as providing a better future for my family. Well the business took a big financial hit it's first year from a crook of a client I had. I tried for 5 years to right the ship, but it was to late. This has lead to her depression, which she coverd up with excessive uses of alcohol, sex, exercise, anything that would make her feel better. She never had any experience expressing her feelings and still doesn't. Instead of sharing her feelings with me she completely shut me out of her life, blaming me for ruining her life. All her emotions came to a head 5 years ago when she had a one night stand. From that day on I committed myself to making our marriage better, communicating, sharing, caring and making myself a better person. Unfortunitly for the next 5 years my efforts failed, the alcohol and other habits had taken control. During this time she had two other PA's and a number of EA's. All the while claiming she was trying to work on the marriage. I used all the principles here and they had a great effect on me, but little effect on her. <P>The lies, destructive and disrespectful behavior became more than I could stand. The problem was I was looking at our marital problems from just an emotional need stand point, not an addictive behavior one. I did every caring tatic possible to make her see what her actions were doing to the people that loved her, nothing worked. Until I yanked the rug from under her. I showed her in a very tough way the problems she was causing. I told her that I didn't know if I could love her anymore after all the hurt she has caused me and our children. I also set up a talk with our children were they expreesed their feelings to her, they are 7 and 5. Her #1 goal in life has been to be the best mother possible and to hear her own children critize her was heart wrenching, but needed. The 2 things that she could always count on were the kids unconditional love and me to pick up the slack around the home. Now she is in fear of losing both and it terrifies her. <P>The only way us spouses can help our partners is to be strong. Hit them in the face with reality so to speak. People with addictive behaviors can not be lead to self happiness, they need to be kicked in the [censored]. Well, I have my steel toed boots on and I will keep kicking until she kicks her addictions. Then and only then can we even attempt to repair all the damage that's been done to our marriage. <P>

Rays,<P>sad thing is you can't make them face their<BR>addiction..they have to acknowledge they have one and need help..my stbx even since we've separated..hasn't seen he has a problem..even<BR>though he drinks more..but to him..it's not<BR>a problem because he's not like his dad where<BR>it's effected his ability to work..and to be <BR>honest, I don't want to see him end up like that..and I won't end up like his mom..who never worked after she married, and was totally dependendant upon him for everything..not saying thats a bad thing if they are financially responsible and have insurance and savings, and so forth but he left her with nothing when he died..no home..<BR>no car..nothing..thankfully he been working a new job for a couple months and they had company insurance on employee's..and so she had at least that..to cover some expenses..<BR>

Thank you every one. I know that he needs to the alcohol thing on his own. As soon as I realizsed that, I backed off again. After all I had made my self clear. I don't need to reiterate it. Actually for now it is better, he decided he wanted to let his meds work.<P>He decided. That is all there is to it, gang. Nothing we do can do anything but set the stage, but it is still their show. When My H is out, he will realize that life can be very unpleasant. He thinks he can stoll along with no committments to me. Well sorry. I made one 16 years ago and I am sticking to it. I love him and will be happy to work on the marriage as soon as he is., I think he knows that. We still never talk, so I don't even knows what he thinks about my telling him he had to leave. More than likely he has pushed it out. I plan to talk to him again tonite. I hope he is in the mood.<P>B

Beth,<P>Your present circumstances sound horrific and depressing but I'd like to offer a little encouragement and a couple of ideas. Of course this is only MY opinion and is only based on my experience and background. <P>Agreed, your H's addiction is a life-threatening problem that takes precedence over A problem right now, as the former prevents focus on the latter. If I read you right, you have started attending AlAnon meetings, and I see that as a big positive for you. Something similar in helpfulness which may have some effect on giving you less feelings of powerlessness and despair is to seek the help of an experienced professional alcoholism/addictions counselor. AlAnon meetings would be an excellent way to find referrals to the more experienced and knowledgable counselors from people who have already used the resources.<P>What can be gained from seeing an addictions counselor is knowledge of the disease, how it affects the addict, the family and the addict's world. You can learn what to expect in continued drinking vs abstinence/recovery. And there is a method of disruption in the alcoholic's thinking that often is the turning point toward sobrietywhich is also available. It is called a family intervention. Contrary to popular belief, an alcoholic does NOT have to hit bottom and lose everything to wake up and see reality. I am nearing my 18th year of sobriety after 13 years of daily drinking. I also am a former certified drug and alcohol counselor, so I have participated in counseling and interventions for addicts and families. I know this works. I know how much hope it restores and what a turnaround it can mean in everyones'life. Understand that there are no guarantees, just as there are none in AA. I also quit drinking after reading of Betty Ford's family intervention and her success with AA. AA is the most successful treatment for alcoholism to date. It helped me.<P>Now, all of that being said, I wanted to also offer some hope that the problem of chronic depression may be a contributing factor ( not a reason or excuse) for your h's alcoholism. When I quit drinking, I lapsed into a clinical depression that worsened with sobriety and counseling. I finally went to a residential treatment program 2 years into sobriety to prevent a relapse. They diagnosed the depression and attempted to treat it with antidepressants, but you have to realize that was 16 years ago and there are all new antidepressants available now which are like miracle drugs compared to the older ones that I took. My depression got better when I quit the old antidepressants, but it also returned in a chronic,low-intensity form and was exaccerbated 2 years ago by another major depressive episode. This time, I did no counseling but saw my personal physician and my minister for a brief time. I started on a med called Zoloft, then later switched to Wellbutrin. Both of them worked for me. I am a changed man. My entire outlook on life is different now. The hopelessness/helplessness and inability to change--the FALSE BELIEF that I had that I was too screwed up to be helped!--it disappeared and I have begun to change in several positive ways. I say all of this to also give you some hope regarding your H's depression. While I think an antidepressant can help alleviate some of the feelings that encourage alcoholics to drink, it does not take away the addiction. I would predict he will return to drinking in time unless he does something in his life to assure that he DOESN'T drink such as a treatment program, AA, counseling, or all of the above. I would hope that when his meds have had enough time to take effect, IF they are going to work for him (some meds don't help, some do-you have to find the right one), this would be an opportunity for his taking back control of his own life.<P>One problem that alcoholics and depressed persons have to deal with is coping with feelings of failure, helplessness,guilt and shame. One way to help them to move along on their own motivation is to remove the stigma and moralistic judgment which continues to plague both kinds of problems. I can also speak from experience about that.<BR>Learning that alcohlism is a disease, not a choice, helped me in a way that I am unable to quantify. My mother was an alcoholic and it made my decision to go to AA so much easier by knowing she had gone to AA and gotten help. It took some of the shame away, and I was able to focus on recovering instead of hiding. Likewise, when I came out of the depression, I was able to focus my thoughts and motivation on recovery of other things. I had felt horribly shameful for the selfcentered feelings I had about being depressed. And while it may not be applicable in your case, I have to say that it was reading Harley's HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS that got me started on my marriage recovery because the enlightenment about ENs and how they played into affair development was blameless. Once the shame was reduced to a bearable level, I was able to move into action instead of just WISHING things were different.<P>I realize that this is long. I'm sorry. I get carried away sometimes. I know you are in a living hell and that you are feeling at a loss in how to cope. I DO believe that you are on your way to changing that. I also think that your idea of asking the doctor to restart your meds (assuming it is an antidepressant) may be helpful even if it doesn't change any of your circumstances. Just wanted you to know that all hope is not lost and that there is more support there for the asking. There are community mental health centers and substance abuse programs available at low/no cost in most communities if that is an issue. I'll pray for your family's best interest, whatever God's will may have in store. Peace.<P>

Thanks for that well thought out response.<P>My h has started taking Zoloft, but the drinking was counteracting it. Out doctor finally drove home the importance of not mixing the two, He is drinking MUCH less, but still more than one, daily. But he is not getting drunk. The meds are starting to take effect. He spent 2 1/2 hrs at Peter Piper at a kids party and was fine and relaxed, I was nuts and had to leave. A first for him.<P>The plan for him to move out soon are still in place. It seems so weird. His world he keeps hidden so well that some days I can forget, for a few hours. But I cannot take the devastating indfference every day. I also cannot deal with the fact that he is still in love with someone else. <BR>Even now that he is feeling better. It is the right thing to do.<P>I'm going to stop there. Today, today today!