Hey Guys,<P>I just thought I'd pop in on this thread since it sounds so familiar to me.<P>Dave, you might remember me as the H whose wife is having an affair with another woman who is also her boss and best friend of ten years. I have been counseling with Steve Harley for about six weeks and he has me on almost the same exact path as Mike. I was able to get my wife to spend an hour talking with Steve. She admitted to him at that time that she is not homosexual and he was able to sense a feeling of doubt in her mind that she is doing the right thing.<P>Although my wife is still living at home and things have not changed much, I do see a light at the end of the tunnel. My wife was originally going to move in with this OW and take our two girls, 9 and 14, with her. She was going to acquire a new job away from her new partner so other co-workers wouldn't suspect anything. She told me she was "proud" of her love she had for this OW and it would never go away. She even asked me at one point where I wanted to get served with divorce papers, at home or at work.<P>What Plan A has done for me so far is to help change the direction my wife is going in very drastically. She is still living at home, in another room. Her plans of living with the OP have changed to buying a house on her own in town so we could share custody of our kids. Through the last two months, this changed to renting a home to renting an apartment to (yesterday's discussion) actually moving in with her parents. She and the Ow are still in there same positions at work and continue to hide everything as much as possible. The OW has moved away from her H. They have no children. No one at their company knows this. In the morning, both women take their wedding bands out of their purses and put them on. On their way home, the rings come off. I sometimes still chuckle about this. The subject of divorce hasn't come up in a long time. I believe she realizes that I have more grounds then she does at this point.<P>I also had a problem about keeping the A from my kids. My wife has informed me more than once that all she wants them to think is that daddy and mommy have differences and are separating. You see, this OW has been a friend to my daughters as well. Steve has told me that the time to inform the girls will be when I enter into Plan B. Plan B will start when, if ever, my wife moves out. Steve has told me to try and expedite this as much as possible. It is alright to inform your spouse that what she is doing hurts as long as you put it in a calm way.<BR>This seems to work very well with my wife because she NEVER has an answer when I tell her that.<P>Since everyone seems to have similiar situations, let's everyone keep the updates flowing. I particularly enjoyed <BR>SKM's viewpoint. I can only hope my wife follows her path.

Mike,<P>Has it crossed your mind that she is angry because she knows she is guilty. That she knows what she is doing is wrong, for her, her children and you.<P>Mike, have you ever heard the say: "The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference." How will you know when it is time to let go? You'll know when you don't feel anything for her. Not when you hate her, or love her. You won't feel anything for her.<P>Well, everytime she gets mad, just smile my man. She still has feelings for you. That is why she treatens divorce all of the time. She is angry, she wants to hurt you, because she cares how you feel. I know this sounds perverse, but set back and think about it.<P>Her lips are flapping but the truth is not coming out. She is very hurt, she is very guilty, she has been jilted by OM, and she cannot come to closure with who she has become. The problem is that you still see her as a good woman, worthy of your love. She probably sees herself in a far harsher light.<P>So when she gets mad, yells, insults you, just smile, because you know what she won't admit. She has feelings for you.<P>Keep up the good work.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi JL,<BR>A new face...and thanks for the response.<BR>I think that I have concidered every possibility under the sun since this all began. I have no doubt that she feels guilty. She has told me that is why she is going to counciling so that she can deal with the guilt. She said her councilor told her she didn't need to come anymore because she seemed like a very directed woman who knew what she wanted. <P>That seems to me from her talk and actions to be a divorce. <P>As far as indifference...that's how she says she feels about me...indifferent. I think that the reason she gets mad is because when she starts in on this whole divorce issue...I get up and leave. I told her I don't really want to talk about it anymore. THat really P.H.Off.<P>As far as the other man...I really don't know what to think. I am not sure whether the truth has been told or not. I would like to think that she has been honest with me, but I'm not sure about anything anymore. <P>I once told her that she should quit her job and get away from him when it first came out. I guess I was hoping for the "I love you and want to make this marriage work" response. Instead I got..."I love you but am not IN love with you and want a divorce" response. Not quite what I expected.<P>Instead of getting better, it seems that I only make things worse. No matter what I say or do, she uses it as a reason to validate her decision. THe old...have a nice day! QUIT TRYING TO CONTROL ME!!! banter if you know what I mean!<P>She says that I never had her heart and that she settled. Does that mean that I never will have it? Or is as Steve puts it that she is re-writing history, and can only see the bad parts right now. She said that there are too many differences in our personalities, and I'm not the right match for her. Geez...could have fooled me for the last 12 years!<P>Oh well...try to continue with plan A as best I can with her out of the house and try not to LB. It will take a lot of self control...which I am lacking in right now!<P>~Mike~

Hi Mike:<P>I don't get to MB as often as I use to, but after reading your thread it occurred to me that for a woman who was as positive as your wife appears to be about getting a divorce and "not loving you anymore" she appears to desperately need your reaffirmation of it being the "right" thing. <P>Divorce discussions usually do come up in an Affair situation...some WS are adamant about getting the divorce as quickly as possible...while others seems to want to "have their cake and eat it too" and only talk about divorce if the pressure becomes to0 great with the OP. My WS is a "cake-eater" so discussions about divorce have only been instigated by me.<P>If your wife is so sure...why all the discussion about divorce...why doesn't she just go ahead and get one? The answer is, of course, that she's not as sure as she sounds...not down deep. So she tries to convince you of the impossibility of the marriage working out...but she's really trying to convince herself. And with reaffirmation she'll receive absolution of her quilt....if she's right then she has no reason to feel quilty.<P>Please just hang in there...maintain your conviction that your marriage can survive this, that you are willing to change to meet her ENs, and that you don't have to give up just because she is. Let her go...work on yourself...don't try to discuss your relationship with her (this is the most important advise you've been given for your own sanity) or reason with her about how wrong she is. Let her work it out herself...I think she's trying to do that and you need to remain the calm "place to come home to" when all of this is over.<P>"After the fact rationalizing" is popular with WS...it's all an attempt to explain away what they have done...or to make right what they think they are feeling. Don't take statements like "I don't think I ever loved you" as concrete facts. They are not always the truth...just a rationalization in the heat of an affair to make themselves feel better. Don't let her do it to you. Take it for what's it's worth...the ravings of a person who is slightly out of her mind.<P>Take care of yourself during all this...right now only you are capable of protecting yourself.<P>I wish you Angels and Prayers ~ Faye <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited January 29, 2001).]

Hello to all...once again.<BR>Well I hope that you all aren't sick of listening to me, but the poop just hit the oscilator.<P>I finally came out and asked my wife about her little EA and how it was going. I was half expecting to get the same answer that I had got before...that he wasn't going to leave his wife.<P>Well I got nothing...so I looked at her and said "are you sleeping with him??" Once again, nothing but the look that says yes. <P>So now I think that the EA has gone PA. She didn''t admit it, but she didn't deny it either. This makes more sense as to why she is in such a hurry to get a divorce.<P>I feel like I have been kicked, run over and chewed up. She says "I have feelings for someone else...I'm human". "As soon as I realized the extent of my feelings, I knew it was time to end my marriage" Oh my god...I'm gonna puke!!!<P>"I'm not in love with you"..Well of course you feel that way you alien infested idiot...you just told me you were in love with someone else! Geez give me a break.<P>Ok..now that I'm half done venting...help you guys. I feel like mmy whole world just came crashing down.<P>I said does his wife know about this??? She said yes...I don't know if I believe her or not. Lies, lies, and more lies. How do you know when the truth is told.<P>I just want to have 5 minutes alone with this guy...but I know it won't solve anything. What to do...What to do...<BR>Plan A some more I guess. Talk to Steve about the new development...and try to keepp from being sick...<P>Just when I thought that things couldn't get any worse...<BR>~Mike~

{{{{Mike}}}} You will survive this. I truly understand that it doesn't feel that way. Just keep posting. Take care of yourself. Be *careful* with everything you do. Stress can cause accidents - I can't tell you how many times I nearly burned down the house after reading my husband's emails to the OW.<P>It's not one day at a time, it's one moment at a time. Just put one foot in front of the other, keep asking yourself, "Right now, what do I need to be doing?"<P>Keep a smile on your face for your children. They need you. My kids are the reason I got up every morning, and got through every day. Thank God for them.<P>Take care of yourself - really take care. Do things for yourself and treat yourself with gentleness and kindness. Take time to let out your emotions - a punching bag hung in the garage is a good idea. Writing, writing, writing is another great release.<P>You can do this.

Mike,<P>Ditto on what Bramblerose said...<P>My WW announced last night that she finally found an apartment and will be moving out soon. As much as I love her and believe me, I had a good cry when I was alone later, I can hardly wait until she actually does leave. That's because Plan B is just around the corner and I have every confidence that recovery is that much closer. All this work that SH prepares you for does really work.<P>WE are the ones that have the plan and are in control. Stick in there...

Hi AH, and BR<BR>I am finding it so hard to break the bad habit of LB when I get stressed. And my WS is causing a lot of stress right now!<P>How do you do it on a regular basis and stay sain in the process.<P>I guess being here helps a lot and right now I really am going to have to rely on all of you more than ever. Thanks everyone. One moment at a time...I think that every WS should have the opportunity to experience this type of pain once in there life just to see how it feels. I bet that there would be a lot fewer A's than there are now!<P>~Mike~

News flash...the missing piece of the puzzle just fell into my lap.<P>My SIL just called and told me that she heard that the OM (a doctor at the hospital where WS works) left his wife this last weekend. THat sheds a lot of light on why my W is in such a hurry to get a divorce.<P>She told me 3 weeks ago that he wasn't going to leave. One more lie in her long list of others. This really puts the final piece in the puzzle. <P>Now what do I do? it just keeps spiraling downward. Is there ever any up?<P>~Mike~<P>------------------<BR>the probability of someone watching you...is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions

Hi All...<BR>WAT...I tried the duct tape trick...it worked!!! <P>I didn't get much sleep last night andyou will know why if you read my last post. The good thing is that I had a lot of time to think about the events of the last two days.<P>I really didn't put together the whole picture until last night. Plan A is about me...not about her. I have decided to not worry about her. She is going to do exactly as she pleases regardless of what I do. I need to focus on me and my kids. What will be will be I guess.<P>Plan A will be hard because she won't have as much of an opportunity to see the improvements because she is not around as much, but that's OK too. I feel numb about the whole thing right now.<P>The pain is still indescribable but the numbness is somewwhat of a relief. I hope that someday the both of them have the privilege of feeling the hurt that they have caused. Maybe a bit vindictive but it might make them wake up and smell the coffee.<P>Now patience and the waiting begin. It's out in the open. His wife must know about this now that he has left. Lets see what happens now.<P>~Mike~<BR><P>------------------<BR>the probability of someone watching you...is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions