<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy:<BR><B>got it -- thanks</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You are more than welcome - I am willing to chat to you anytime - it is quite obvious that my wife is feeling very much like you in many ways - maybe we can sort some things out between the two of us that will help both of us???<P>

My wife behaves much the same way yours does,kevan , and I react much the same way you do. Ironing clothes, doing laundry, loooong foot massages after a hard day's work when I myself could use one, backrubs, doing dishes, buying gifts, but none of that obviously makes a difference. Lexxy is right. She needs space.<P>My wife is going to get all the space she needs if she doesn't stop abusing me and lying to me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GodlyMan:<BR><B>Lexxy is right. She needs space.<P>My wife is going to get all the space she needs if she doesn't stop abusing me and lying to me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Have we really treated our wives that bad, to be treated like this AFTER their affair????<P>Do you think maybe it is a good idea if we stop being so "kind and loving" to them - do you think we may be better appreciated? I wonder - we will most probably be in more trouble than before. I know affairs are not the fault of one person in a marriage, but is it not a bit hard to swallow when you are making every effort to rectify what you have done wrong and then still have to be faced by the hangups of your deceptive partner.<P>To what extent are we required to stretch and commit ourselves to show these spouses that we are still dedicated to our marriages, yet still hurting and do understand that it is not easy for them either, whatever the cause was?<P>I know I am whining here as the "injured party" who wants to be "loved" again - but do they not realise that a little bit of loving can go a long way? <BR>A small response can mean a lot to someone in our position, to quell their fears, to feel like we are still wanted (egotistic maybe?).<BR>How does a person accept that after 25 years of knowing a person (we,, supposedly - again if we really knew them properly, then hopefully this trauma in our lives could have been avoided ? - just a thought ?) we now have to simply "accept" that we are not the most important person in their relationships anymore - and that we have been replaced by an "infatuation" which has not only screwed up a family core, but has had an extreme traumatic effect on the person that was led to believe that this "new shining light" that has come to rescue them from their quagmire of hell-on-earth is nothing more than an opportunist with a complete lack of sensitivity and moral judgement, not only towards the spouses that have been injured in this senseless romance, but more important has loaded the person which they were "helping and befriending" more problems, stress and trauma than any person should be required to handle?<BR>Just some of my home-grown philosophical drivel to brighten up our day.<BR>Every couple, on deciding to marry, should be submitted to an intensive brainwashing vacation within a "broken-marriage" counselling center before being allowed to make a commitment to "Have and to hold, from this day onwards, for better of for worse"......................................................................................................................<P>Hey, people out there, stop being so damn selfish and self-centered and hung-up and firstly accept that if your partner wants you back - it is because he/she WANTS to love you, WANTS to try again, WANTS to forgive you -give him/fer a chance.............................<BR>

An interesting article on the MSN Health site today:<P>Yes, I am preaching to myself too...............<P><B> The Importance of Being ... Married </B><P>There are many reasons to choose wisely and carefully when picking a spouse, but here's one you may not know: New research suggests that a good marriage is good for your health -- and that a bad one can be a real heartbreaker. <P>By Andrea Braslavsky <BR> <P>July 30, 2001 -- There are many good reasons to choose wisely and carefully when picking a spouse -- not the least of which is that you'll be spending an awful lot of time with them in both the near and distant future, possibly even raising children together. <P><BR>So you want to find someone with whom you are compatible, share values -- someone who makes you happy. But perhaps one of the most compelling reasons to make an informed choice is that your spouse can affect your physical health in very direct, measurable ways. <P><BR>"The choice of spouse is one of the most significant you'll make in your life; it is more serious than choosing a house or anything," says Brian Baker, a psychiatrist at the University of Toronto. "There is nothing like a good, solid marriage." <P>The Heart of the Matter <P><BR>Baker should know: He has spent the past decade conducting studies that look at the effect of marital strain on cardiovascular health. In one of his most recent studies, he followed both men and women with borderline high blood pressure for three years and found that blood pressure is directly linked to what he calls "marital cohesion" -- how much couples do and share together. <P><BR>"We found that if you had a bad marriage, it was best to avoid your spouse -- because if you are with your spouse, your blood pressure went up, and if you weren't with your spouse, your blood pressure went down," says Baker. "In a good marriage the opposite was the case." <P><BR>An earlier study found that couples in good marriages had thinner heart walls than those in bad marriages. A thicker heart wall means higher blood pressure, "so that is an interesting finding," says Baker. <P><BR>While the majority of studies so far have looked at cardiovascular effects, the plusses and minuses of marriage don't appear to be limited to that system. <P><BR>In fact, they could be tied to how your body handles stress, says Baker, and the way that stress manifests itself could control the system most affected. <P><BR>"It could be the immune system, or depression, gastrointestinal problems, rashes, or emotional disorders like anxiety conditions," he says. <P><BR>The Benefits of Wedded Bliss <P><BR>Baker's research joins a small but growing number of studies pinpointing the varied health effects of marriage. One study, for example, showed that marital stress can double a person's risk of developing diabetes. Another study, out of Sweden, showed women in marital distress had a three-times greater risk of a second heart attack. And a third showed that positive marital interactions can boost immunity and reduce the risk of heart disease by keeping stress hormones low. <P><BR>"The benefits are better physical health, more resistance to infection, fewer infections, and a reduced likelihood of dying from cancer, from heart disease, from all major killers," psychologist and author John Gottman, PhD, tells WebMD. "The other health benefit is longevity: People live longer if they are in marital relationships, particularly if they are in good, satisfying relationships." Gottman, considered by many to be a pioneer in the field of marriage research, is the James Mifflin Professor in the department of psychology at the University of Washington in Seattle. <P><BR>"There are physical benefits and mental health benefits," says Gottman. "You have less depression, less anxiety disorders, less psychosis, less posttraumatic stress disorders, fewer phobias. You also have fewer injuries due to accidents." <P><BR>"The process gets reversed when relationships dissolve," he points out. This is especially true when one spouse dies. Oftentimes the surviving partner will die of what some call the "broken-heart syndrome." <P><BR>"There is a bereavement process that is really well-documented," says Gottman. "People really go through [physical] grief and they secrete [the stress hormone] cortisol, and a lot of systems really shut down. [The grieving spouses] become more vulnerable to all kinds of infectious agents; their immune systems aren't working. So a person will get something like pneumonia and die very quickly. And they also lose the will to live." <P><BR>In this scenario, men are more likely to be the one who dies of broken-heart syndrome, Gottman notes. But then again, men also typically reap the greater health benefits from being married while alive. <P>For Guys, for Better or for Worse Is Mostly for Better <P><BR>"If it is a good marriage, the benefits are equally as great for women as for men; for men just being married confers a tremendous amount of benefits," Gottman says. "One of the major ways in which marriage confers effects is to reduce risk: Men stop engaging in risky behavior like bungee jumping and driving drunk. ... [They start] getting their health looked at on a regular basis and eating well. Single men really don't do that; they sort of fall apart. <P><BR>"Women are less prone to risky behavior, more likely to go to doctor when they are sick, and they take care of themselves better," he says. "The other big, big difference is men have lousy social support systems, and women have great support systems." <P><BR>This just goes to show you how much men get taken care of in a marriage, says David Woodsfellow, PhD, director of the Center for Relationship Therapy in Atlanta. <P><BR>"While the traditional role has man as the provider, that role is really as the provider of money," he says. "In that traditional role ... the woman is the provider of nurturing comfort, home, and often food, clothing, and furnishings. I think it is those roles and their vestiges that account for the finding that marriage is better for men." <P><BR>Bridging the Differences <P><BR>So being married can benefit your health. How can couples get the maximum benefit for both parties involved? <P><BR>Woodsfellow offers these four tips for bridging the inevitable differences and keeping a marriage healthy and happy. <P><BR>Talk to each other every day. "Make a point of learning what the other one's day was like," he says. "That becomes one type of quality time: undivided attention." <BR>Say nice things to one another; give one another compliments. "Do this frequently," he says. <BR>Try not to reject each other. "Be aware of the little moments when your partner is reaching out to you and try to respond to them rather than turn your back to them, even if you are busy," says Woodsfellow. <BR>Develop your own little habits, rituals, secret words, or secret signals. "Little, special things become special bonds, special moments of intimacy," he says. <P>It's All About Commitment <P><BR>"That's one of the great things about love: When people really love and they make a commitment, they become enormously vulnerable and enormously powerful -- because they care so much and it connects them to the world in such a big way," says Gottman. "That's the amazing thing about all of these benefits: They are conferred by commitment. The commitment is like falling over backward and translates into making you a mensch and a concerned human being -- somebody who is involved in the community of mankind." <P>

Kevan, I am truly sorry for your distress, no one "deserves" to be a bs. However, as a ws (and a male one), I have to tell you I agree with lexxy comments. I haven't read every single word, but I have read a lot of your posts, and you are driving me nuts too. As hard and unfair as it may seem, you have to give up this intensity and control, and let your wife be, or leave her. Work on only yourself, and let her choose you if she wants, you cannot make her do anything, and are just driving her away. Good luck.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:<BR><B>I haven't read every single word, but I have read a lot of your posts, and you are driving me nuts too.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Thanks for the outstanding compassionate advice, the world could do with millions more like you, couldnt they?<BR>

kevan, you're angry, and hurt, and rightly so. But you need to take hold of your life and don't let her beat you up like this.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Have we really treated our wives that bad, to be treated like this AFTER their affair????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>NO! No one deserves this! I've asked myself the same question time and time again... "What have I done to deserve this?!!" and the answer is NOTHING! No matter what you did, it doesn't deserve the way we are treated. But the sad fact is that there are certain ways we need to act in order to get the results we want. And sometimes acting those ways isn't easy. It is a lot of sacrifice. <P>I myself feel like giving up on my marriage altogether. I feel as if there is no hope. But I am sacrificing my needs and my happiness to help my wife try and come around out of the fog. If she does, all my sacrifices will be worth it.<P>If she doesn't, then I will be able to sleep soundly, knowing I went beyond the extra mile and did all I could.

Heartpain,<BR>Your response on not pressuring your spouse, and concentrating on yourself, sounds like what I need to do (see my post under the thread WS--Can you Regain Sexual Desire). What exactly is Plan A? I have looked for the details on this site, but can't seem to find it. Thanks!

Kevan,<BR>Here is a book you might try by Gary Smalley called<BR>"winning your wife back before it's too late." My H read that when he first discovered my A. Before we even heard of this site. He said it helped him a great deal to understand things and himself. <P>To me it sounds like your W is feeling guilty for what has happened and treating you so badly to try to justify her behavior. When I stopped seeing my OM the first time, I treated my H very similiar. I was so mean and hateful, but he just keep on being kind to me. Eventually he succeded<BR>and for that I am deeply grateful. So hang in there. Take control of what you can, yourself. Find books to read. And remember who you are. You are a man created in the image of God. So hold your head up high. Instead of coming home and trying to get a hug from her, just ask her how her day went and go in and read the paper or ask if she needs any help.<BR>Do some work around the house. You will make it thru this situation. You have many here to support you.<BR>my prayers are with you.<BR>Debbie

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>Kevan,<BR>You will make it thru this situation. You have many here to support you.<BR>my prayers are with you.<BR>Debbie</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you Debbie,<P>The work around the house I do, offering help I do, offering a shoulder to lean on I do.<P>So, ok - ask for nothing, expect nothing, I will try this again. <P>Any idea for how long, or is that a ridiculous question? Or should I just let another year of our married life slip by? (I know I sound bitter)<BR>

<B> An interesting article I was referred to by a very good friend originally from MB that has been very supportive.<P>All you WS's out there, what would your reaction be if your partner sent you this letter?<P>I sent this to my wife a few weeks ago while I was out of town - absolutely zero response from her, not even any recognition or acknowledgement that she had read it (she did, believe me)"<P></B><BR>.....<P>The "Need to Know" <BR>by Peggy Vaughan<P><BR>Why we need answers to our questions <P>When learning of our partner's affair, most of us feel an intense "need to know" - asking questions to try to make some kind of sense out of what has happened. <P>Here's an excerpt about this from my book, The Monogamy Myth <P>"When a person discovers their mate is having an affair, their world suddenly turns upside down. In order to recover any sense of balance, they need to get more information and understanding of the situation. Without answers to their questions, they convince themselves that the answers must all be bad; otherwise why wouldn't they be told what they want to know. They feel they're being treated like a child, and they resent it. <P>"If the information didn't exist, it wouldn't be so frustrating and demeaning. But they know their partner has it, and simply refuses to give it to them. This makes a balance of power in the relationship impossible... It's doubtful if trust can ever be restored in a relationship where this persists. <P>"I remember how tough it was on my husband when I continually asked more and more questions. Intellectually, I wanted to move on and get over it, but emotionally I needed the ongoing support and understanding he gave me. It was extremely important that he never said, "enough is enough, let's get on with our lives." Of course, nobody would choose to go through the thousands of hours of talking about this if there were some other way. In my own case, I think it was an essential part of overcoming my feelings and finding peace of mind." <P>(end of excerpt from "The Monogamy Myth") <P>While I have consistently heard this same thing from thousands of people during the past 20 years, there's still a great reluctance on the part of those who have had affairs to answer questions and to continue talking about the whole situation. Unfortunately, there has also been a large segment of the therapeutic community that has reinforced the idea that too many questions and too much talking is not for the best. <P>I now have statistical data that demonstrates the connection between honest communication and both staying married and recovering. I have posted some results from my Research Questionnaire that may help people see the importance of respecting this "need to know." <P>While it's important to get answers to your questions IF you ask questions, this does NOT mean you "should" ask questions unless/until you really want to know. It's just that it's essential to get answers if you DO ask. <P>While for most people, "getting answers to your questions" is a key ingredient in rebuilding the trust and building a strong marriage, no one should be forced to hear things they don't want to hear. But if they DO want to hear details, they deserve to have their questions answered. It's the WILLINGNESS of the partner to answer questions that is so critical, not whether or not you ASK for the answers. <P>So each person needs to decide for themselves the timing of when/what/how much they want to know. (It's important to determine that you really want the truth, and are not just hoping for some kind of reassurance or disclaimers.) For most people, "not knowing" is worst of all - because their imagination fills in the blanks and the wondering never ceases. <P>Joseph's Letter <P>I want to share a beautiful example of a letter one man wrote in his effort to get his wife to answer his questions. This was originally posted on my BAN Message Board before it was closed. While I didn't keep any of the messages posted on that board, this was so exceptional that I got Joseph's permission to include it in "Peggy's Forum" so it could continue to be accessed by people who didn't read his original posting. <P>So I'm including it here as a clear statement of the "need to know," as well as a clear explanation of why you ask the questions: <P>"To Whomever, <P>"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes. <P>"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have. <P>"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it. <P>"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier. <P>"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world." <P>(end of Joseph's Letter) <P>The Importance of Reinforcing the Honesty <P>While it's understandable that the focus is almost exclusively on "getting answers," the key to whether or not there is a continuation of getting answers depends in large part on how you react to hearing the answers you do get. While it may not seem "fair," one who asks for details has a responsibility to hear them in a way that doesn't punish the partner for doing what they've asked them to do. (This is not a matter of it being "wrong" to punish the partner; it's simply not "smart" to immediately punish someone for being honest, despite the potential pain from the honesty, because it means the honesty will be unlikely to continue.) <P>Here's another excerpt from the "The Monogamy Myth" that points out how important it is for the person who asks for answers to react in a way that Reinforces the Honesty: <P>"The ability to succeed in dealing honestly with an affair does not depend solely on the attitude and behavior of the one who had the affair. Their partner's reaction is critical because it serves either to reinforce honesty or to discourage it. Honesty about affairs comes in stages. First, there is the admission that it happened, then the many details that contribute to seeing the whole picture. A partner's reaction to the initial fact of the affair has a lot to do with the willingness of the person who had an affair to share any of the details. <P>"A person who discovers their mate's affair usually feels justified in venting their feelings of hurt and anger. While they certainly have a right to those feelings, they need to recognize that punishing their mate for telling the truth will almost surely put an end to any further honesty. So while it may seem unfair, it's in their own best interest to try to reinforce whatever honesty is received if there is to be much hope for the honesty continuing. <P>"Supporting a partner's honesty often takes enormous patience. One man said he felt his effort to get his wife to open up and talk was like peeling an onion, with each skin coming off very hard. He continued to encourage her and to show his appreciation for her efforts to be honest, so she finally became convinced it was safe to tell him the truth. It took a long time, but they were able to stay together and develop a relationship that was closer than it had been prior to the affair. <P>"In another case, a man told of the terrible price his wife paid for being honest with him about her affair. By his own admission, he lashed out at her to try to hurt her back. She decided she had made a mistake by being honest about her affair and became afraid to tell him anything else. But she hung in without trying to defend herself against his constant barrage of criticism. Finally, he came to realize that she must love him very much to tolerate all he had put her through. He felt thankful she hadn't left, and began trying to make up for the damage that had been done. <P>"This can be quite a challenge for the person who asks for honesty--to avoid punishing their partner for telling them what they want to know. It's understandable that a person feels badly about some of the information they receive, but this can be balanced by feeling good about their partner's honesty. This was my experience, feeling so positive about James' honesty in answering everything I asked him that it diminished the pain of what he had to say. This kind of honest communication is important, not only in dealing with what has happened, but in determining the nature of the relationship in the future." <BR>

Could some of you go to General Questions II and read my topic - Lostva-please reply ASAP. I need all the help I can get. I am very new to this and having a lot of problems. Thanks.

Kevan,<BR>Only you can decide how long you will be able to tolerate your situation. As long as your W feels she has lost something valuable such as her need for the OM, she will continue to treat you in a disrespectful manner. And only you can decide how long you will be able to bear up under that. Of course if you respond in a negative way, it will only strengthen her belief that your marriage is a mistake.<BR>So be tough and chose your words and actions carefully when you can.<P>Debbie

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>Kevan,<BR>Only you can decide how long you will be able to tolerate your situation. As long as your W feels she has lost something valuable such as her need for the OM, she will continue to treat you in a disrespectful manner.....<P>Debbie</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks Debbie, I appreciate what you are saying. It is just so so difficult, when I see a lady that I have desired and loved and wanted all my life turn away from me when I want her now more than ever before.<BR>A whole year and I still feel like a worm and a failure in her eyes - like I am no longer good enough for her.<BR>Let these other characters on this post say "that I make them feel sick" or whatever their guilt is forcing them to say - they know very well they are wrong in their actions and are just not strong enough to stand up to the fact that they blew it and screwed up not only their own lives but those around them and just do not have the guts to stand up, fully admit what they have done and straighten out their own lives and the fog in their brains - what a bunch of losers. <BR>I have met so many other genuine people on this Discussion board who are open and honestly trying to heal their relationships and communicate with their spouses and show compassion for their partners.<BR>THE REST OF YOU - GROW UP - STOP PLAYING YOUR STUPID MIND GAMES AND HIDING BEHIND YOUR GUILT AND MAKING EXCUSES. WHAT A BUNCH OF WEENIES.<BR>Lets see if you ever had the strength to be able to stick it out with a spouse that you love so very very much, who has a bent and warped mind. We are told that "We must forget it, put it behind us, and go on, look after ourselves" - but yet, you cannot "put it behind you" - end up with hangups of guilt, not feeling worthy, and then we, as injured parties have to "sympathize" and "empathize" with you and treat you like babies?<BR>C'mon, yes, I know I am challenging a lot of the principles on this site - but, well, it works both ways doesnt it?<BR>I have a very very good ladyfriend who has realised what she has done to her husband by having an affair ans is dong her very very best to put it all together, not running around like you lot with your tail between your legs, hiding behind infatuation. Get a life, you bunch of losers.

Kevan,<BR>You have got to boost yourself up and not allow anyone to make you feel like a failure. This is from my own experience, but when I bought into the lie that I was not important and didn't amount to much, I acted in such a way to reinforce that idea. And that made my self-esteem take a nose dive. In fact I had very little self esteem left.<BR>But when I started believing in myself. And started to see myself as God sees me, I finally stopped believing what anyone says or thought. And I act in a manner that shows I am an extremely intelligent woman who is capable of doing many things, even if no one else thinks that. But you know something, when I believe in myself, others begin to believe in me too. And their attitudes about me change.<P>Now you have to believe in yourself. See the good in you.<BR>And act upon how you want others to see you, your W included. If she treats you like a worm, then walk out of the room. While I was in the "fog" as they say, I did treat my H in a disrespectful manner, but what is more disrespectful than having an A in the first place? But he came thru it with more dignity and self respect than ever before. He surrounded himself with people who lifted him up, both mentally and before the Lord. And so you should too. If you don't want to tell any of your close friends for fear of hurting your wife, you do yourself a great disservice. You need the support and encouragement to be able to move forward, to show the unconditional love you feel, and more importantly, to keep your self-respect.<P>Always remind yourself that you are the image of a great and wonderful God. you are intelligent and capable of showing her the unconditional love she wants, but it is her choice to accept that love. I'm sorry if I'm preaching here, but after what I have gone thru, I want to go out there and shake up those other wayward spouses to get them to open their eyes to what God has given them. What they are so casually throwing away thinking the grass is greener in someone's backyard. Because I have been there and I know that grass isn't any better than what you already have.<BR>In fact, my H is more of a man than my OM will ever be in his entire life. And I praise God every day that I woke up in time to see that and had the courage to come back home and work on what I already had..........wheeee.....<P>and now i'm off my soap box.<BR>Debbie

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>Kevan,<BR>.............<BR>In fact, my H is more of a man than my OM will ever be in his entire life. And I praise God every day that I woke up in time to see that and had the courage to come back home and work on what I already had..........wheeee.....<P>and now i'm off my soap box.<BR>Debbie</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is truly wonderful to hear from a person like yourself who has been able to pull their lives together - Irelly hope my wife thinks the same thing of me as what you think of yourself - only problem is I never know unless I ask her.<P>Yes, I have made big inroads already in lifting myself up to a level that I do feel like a worthy human being again - now I am trying to find out if my wife still sees me as someone she could possibly spend the rest of her life with, and her lover...<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dlm:<BR><B>Kevan,<BR>If you don't want to tell any of your close friends for fear of hurting your wife, you do yourself a great disservice. Debbie</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Every single one of our friends knows what has happened, although my wife doesnt know that they do.<BR>I have discussed and am discussing this with my sister on a daily basis.<BR>I have spoken to her father about it too - I told her about this and she went totally ballistic over it, that I betrayed her trust and confidentiality. Not that it really matters as her father has taken the approach that it is not any of his business and he will not be poking his nose in at all. (Her parents were divorced and both remarried while she was still a schoolkid).<BR>I have gained anothr very good friend thru MB that has given me an incredible amount of encouragement and support, and she is basically the glue keeping me together right now.<P>To all the Debbies and others outthere just like you - thank you so very very much for taking the time and effort to assist others here to rectify their lives.<P>Yes, I do find it difficult to see myself as an individual without my wife as an integral part of my life............<BR>

kevan, I haven't read you entire post, but skipped around and read some of it, but I can see it's very emotional, and you've got lots of support here.<P>If you haven't seen Trueheart's quote on this link (His quote is from his response on another thread - took it out and made it a separate post), check it out.. perhaps it will help you with your perspective on yourself and your marriage. It really helped me.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011273.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011273.html</A> <P>Hang in there! Keep reading and posting!<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited August 03, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faith1:<BR><B><BR>Hang in there! Keep reading and posting!<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I would rather have one of my children lost in a car accident or something similar than have this happen to me again - this sounds harsh - but at least that would be final.<P>

Kevan,<P>I can't really give you much advice since I'm new to this, but I will keep you in my prayers. I can't say I'm in the exact same situation, but it's close in it's own way. I understand trying to stand beside a spouse that acts like you aren't worthy. Keep your chin up. In my opinion, you are worthy just because you keep trying and don't give up.