Just curious, how many of you out there consider yourselves or your spouses believers in Christ and ended up experiencing an unfaithfulness in your marriage? What was lacking in your faith or your spouses faith?<P> J

Perch...my H and I are both believers. H went out and had the A..After 14 months he is still having trouble repenting all of his sins. H wants the relationship back with Christ, however the guilt and shame are eating him up. I found a site called rejoiceministries.com which has helped me so much. There is so much spiritual warfare going on in this crappy world, it's scary. I look at it this way, Satan works over time on us believers..he already has his followers in his pocket!<P>Kathie

Oh don't get me started!!! My wife considered herself a Christian and her lover is an elder in his church. I can't tell you the revulsion I felt reading his emails to her praising God and thanking him for the opportunity to bop my wife. And the lies, both of them lied to my face over and over again. My wife doesn't attend church much anymore. She really needs to go to our minister for a talk but is too embarrassed to do so. I'm afraid that her "status" in our minister's eyes is more important than the comfort she could find with God.

We are both Christians. H (WS) was even a bi-vocational Assoc. Pastor at the time of his A. He resigned 2 weeks before he told me of the A (for reasons other than the A, although that definitely played a part). <P>Although we were "leaders", our faith had become shallow, more of a habit, than a close walk with our Lord and Savior. But even then, neither of us expected to find ourselves in this position.<P>I must add that we probably would not have survived this without His grace and loving care for us. He has truly sustained me when I felt I could no longer go on. BTW, it has been 7 1/2 months now, and H and I are doing very well. We know there will be unexpected twists and turns ahead, but we know that His perfect will is for our family to be whole and He will continue to help us through this.<P>------------------<BR>"Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Corinthians 13:7<p>[This message has been edited by Persevering (edited January 23, 2001).]

My x was a borne again Christian from Jr High. Since the affair she no longer goess to church and won't take the kids. She didn't even come to see our son get his bible last year.<P>She even told me the last time we were together that the Lord is just there for us in the after life and He doesn't answer prayers.<P>I was dumbstruck and had no answer, she said "see we can't even have a discussion." <P>I always believed but was a lukewarm Christian. I became a true believer upon discovery of my x's affair.<P>She said she always wanted me to be the spiritual head of the house which I wasn't. Now neither she nor her husband, reportedly a Christian also, attend church.

To answer my own question: I was a Deacon, and let our Mens study-- I felt I was strong in my faith. We had difficultly in our marriage but i was always confident we would get through it. I am the WS and ahd a relationship with my best freinds wife--NOW that its been over for awhile and I'm out of the fog-- I wonder why?? I was willing to give everything up-- I mean everything!! to have a life with the OW. <P>Now here is the remarkable part-- We still go to the same church with the other family. I have emailed my "best" friend and told him that I lied to him, I caused him so much pain and I destroyed what we had. I asked for his forgivness, and I said would like to earn his trust again. He has said he is ready to meet with me ( Pastor will be there too)and lear the air. I feel friends are not expendable. I wasn't a very good friend but I will ( with Gods help) work on reconsiling with the people I have hurt.<P>So What happened that took my focus off of God?? I don't know all the answers yet but I know 1 was --not reading His work daily, My heart was in the right place, but my actions did not follow. <P>will say more later, phones are ringing!!<BR>J

I think it boils down to the difference between knowing the path, and walking the path. <P>My W considers herself to be a Born-Again Christian. She knows what she's doing is wrong, but that knowledge is not enough to stop her. Her ex-BF could quote Bible passages on just about any subject, and goes to church at least twice a week. He's now married, with 3 kids, and guess what? He is a serial adulterer! <P>I may be going out on a limb here, but I think that Christian adulterers justify their actions by reminding themselves that any sin can be forgiven. Maybe some part of their brain is saying "this is wrong, but I'll be forgiven if in my heart I truly repent..."<P>The problem is, they've forgotten that you're not supposed to sin in the first place!<P>jmho

Perch<P>We are both Christians. H was a church elder but he can no longer face going to church. He lives with ow and as far as I can gather she is not a christian. He said that she does not celebrate Christmas anyway.<P>My children are finding it hard to understand how this could have happened given that we are a christian family. I have explained that there were faults on both sides and that we all make mistakes but it is hard for them to understand.<P>I really don't know what was missing in the marriage or where we went wrong. I think in all honesty that life, 3 children and a stressful job got in the way of everything else and we forgot about our basic believes and values. I think this was all coupled with the fact that H has just turned 40!!!<BR>I think that we have both taken God for granted for some time now and certainly we have forgotten to put him first. Perhaps even to the extent of just giving our faith lip service.<P>Love and prayers Annie<P><p>[This message has been edited by annie h (edited January 23, 2001).]

My h. had been a deacon in our church, chairing two committees for years. His prayers were convincing to me, and I have always thought that I had the gift of discerning of spirits!! <P>After his confession and repentance, he now admits that he used to talk about regeneration and the leading of the HS, but that he has NO IDEA what it is like to experience God's leading in ANYTHING.<P>I loved him so, that I chose to believe his words, and ignore signs of a spiritual vacuum. Thus, I thought that no matter how distant we became, his Christian conscience would prevent an affair. <P>He says once he decided to sin, he figured why not 'go for it', so he let loose with profanity, drinking, office gossip (OW's favorite activity), backstabbing and outright mental cruelty to many that he disliked...such as jr. employees.<P>I think 'Christians' think that God will keep them from temptation...instead of realizing that God promises to 'Make a way" of escape. <P>If the WS chooses to ignore the way (Like not working late alone with the person you have the hots for), God can't very well stop you, because of the gift of limited free will.<P>my nickels worth...<BR>liz

My h's affair started after a church training trip with ow & several others. Ow was (& IS)one of the music ministers at our church. Upon their return from this trip, my h wrote her a letter telling her how much he loved her and wanted to ..... whatever. During the affair, he would actually sit & read his Bible when things were uncomfortable at home. Upon discovery, he ended the affair to save her from exposure. She also stopped contact with him. However, she refused to consider leaving her position. My H gave up his position chairman of the board that runs our church business. <P>Although I have her disgusting love letters which include references to rendezvous at church, complaints when I seemed happy at her choir practice, and plotting with my h for the 2 of them to leave their spouses so that they could be together, I have never exposed her to the church members who think of her as a living saint. Now 2 years into our recovery, she continues as music minister in our church and incidentally treats me as if I were the devil incarnate. <P>It is truly frightening to see how little being a Christian meant to either of them. For ow, being a Christian means that she could not possiby bear any fault for any of this because she is so good. <P>Thanks for letting me vent. This remains a really upsetting issue for me. <p>[This message has been edited by wesse (edited January 24, 2001).]

Both my H and I are/were Christians. However, my H (living with OW and in the affair for over 1 year), seems to believe God is allowing him to do this, as [he says] "God wants me to be happy and isn't stopping me from doing this."<P>My take on this is two-fold:<BR>1) I thinkg that he is making God in his own image....fitting God and the Bible into whatever he wants to happen in his life. He knows that he's doing "wrong." He even intonated that to me once. But he's still in the fog and still thinks he's walking according to God's will. He says the Bible is just a good suggestion book, not necessarily a "rule" book or a book we have to follow.<P>2) Nowhere in the Bible does God say He wants us to be happy. Happiness comes from doing the right thing and following God's plans for us. So the statment that "God wants us to be happy" isn't necessarily true. Yes, He probably does, but to be happy as a result of, as Matthew so elegantly put it, "Happy are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled."<P>And as cjack said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I may be going out on a limb here, but I think that Christian adulterers justify their actions by reminding themselves that any sin can be forgiven. Maybe some part of their brain is saying "this is wrong, but I'll be forgiven if in my heart I truly repent..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My H truly believes that. He likens himself to David....David did all this horrible stuff with Bathsheba and her husband, but God still was there for him and calls him a "man after my own heart." So my H definately thinks all of what he's doing isn't really that bad, because God will still be there for him, forgive him, etc. <P>I think that's tempting God, if you ask me. And he disobeyed and put himself before God. Deliberate acts, even in the fog. It's as simple as that.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O

My H and I are both Christians. I came to know Christ through my H and I think that is what has blinded me to who my H really is (obviously the WS). <P>We are currently teaching the high school sunday school class together and are also Christ Care small group leaders.<P>I've counseled with our Pastor and spilled the whole truth as to our problems, but my H only superficially discussed our problems (we've met seperately). <P>For a time my H wouldn't take communion, but now does. I don't think my H has fully repented or asked for forgiveness from God or from me. He continues to lie and have EAs, although I can't prove it.<P>My walk has become so strong in all this. I was luke warm prior to the PA and I find myself diving into the Word and meditating more often.<P>I think my H is a fake and so does his mother (who is also very active in our church)!<P>Thanks for asking and for listening.<P> <P>------------------<BR>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt<p>[This message has been edited by Free2BMe (edited January 24, 2001).]

Well...I am a Christian, and I was the WS..<BR>my faith was strong before the A..and I knew<BR>satan was attacking me in that area..even before I fell flat on my face..what is it they say...Pride cometh before a fall...<BR>I had just started leading a monday night bible study..(which I continued to do even through that time) I had confessed my A to the women in the study and even asked them to pray for me in that area..the more they prayed the more satan attacked..<P>As far as my marriage at the time..I'd felt<BR>like I had been out in the wilderness being led away from God..(he quit going to church after we married) and the one weekend a month<BR>he would be home..and I'd get up for church<BR>he would say things like.."if your going to church then I am going to leave..and I won't be here when you get home so take the kids w/ you, but if you stay home then I won't leave<BR>until tomorrow" and he did that for years..and I began to feel as if I had to choose between spending time w/ him drinking...or going to church for an hour..even when I stayed home..which I ended up doing just to avoid the conflict..and watched the church services on tv he would<BR>change the channel or tell the kids they could change the channel...(this had gone on over a period of nine years) the A lastest not even a year..and I even offered to step down from leading the bible study..but they <BR>didn't want to do that..the Lord used the bible studies that I was leading to speak to me..and convict me..which made me struggle in the A even more..and I shared those struggles w/ the OM..which he didn't understand because he's NOT a christian..but I could definatly feel the struggle between the old nature of self..and the new nature of being a child of God..and I grew to know God on a more personal level..and Ish 54 began to really become a live in my heart...and my life..<BR>I know that I will struggle in this area again..only because I know satan won the battle this time..and I'll go through that one again one day just to see if I pass the test next time...

In my first marriage, which ended about 9, 10 years ago, I cut loose. I was a Christian then and I am now.<P>It started when I stopped going to church. (I had previously been a Sunday school teacher, very devoted to my church, but I did not have even a fraction of the faith and understanding that I do now.) We were very poor and I had to work on Sundays to make ends meet. My husband then was the kind of guy that professed a loose belief in God, the non-committal kind, and might only go to church if I did. Well, needless to say, he didn't.<P>We both fell away--can't say which first. The time came when I started working nights--it was all too convenient to start going bar-hopping after work, since I was in town anyway. (Yes, I live in a very rural area, used to be anyways.) I was cute, a flirt, and had lots of "guy friends." I got kind of a bad reputation (not because I had really crossed that line with any one guy, just because that's the way it was when a girl starts to think too much of herself.)<P>Time came when I was totally lead away from my husband. I had my foot in the door for it to happen, and it did. Guilty as charged.<P>For a time after that, I decided that there was no God and that I had basically been foolish in believing in Him "wholeheartedly." I figured that God was a figment of someone's imagination, or a superstition used to bully people into being "good" and to give up their money. After all, God didn't answer my prayers, after much fervent, heartfelt prayer (ask and it shall be given, right?) to give me the guy of dreams, so He couldn't possibly be real.<P>Then I met my husband, and married him. And the sheer pain that I felt from constant verbal abuse made me seek comfort in church after our marriage, just for somewhere safe to go, friendly faces, peaceful atmosphere. That was a smart move, because it motivated me to repent and improve my life. Over time, and after much heartache, I did do that.<P>I have absolute testimony now that there is a God and that he loves us all, faithful spouse, wayward spouse, all. He gives us obstacles and challenges to improve and strengthen us, not to "punish." (We punish ourselves, and sometimes rightfully so, but total discouragement and lack of self-worth is the tool of satan, not God.)<P>

Perch, I think it is wonderful that you have not only felt remorse for what you did to your friend, but that you have also expressed it to him and are going even farther to take responsibility.<P>I expect that there will still be hard feelings for the two of you to work through, but I think you are really on the right track. What you are doing will obviously make life easier for you and your family, but I also think that it will also make forgiveness so much easier for your friend if he is receptive (& it sounds like he is). That is doing a wonderful thing for him. <P>Except for staying out of contact with his wife which you have already done, I don't know of anything more considerate you could do for him. This will help him give himself the gift of forgiveness. It does my heart well to hear of an op who is doing the right thing in assuming responsibility for the hurt they did to the spouse of their affair partner. Please let us know how it goes.

Thanks Wesse,<P> Throught ithis whole ordeal I've seen him come closer to God and build a "personal" relationship with Christ. I was with him several years ago at promise keepers and I here now that he had excepted the Lord at that point but didn't tell me, But it hasn't been since the last few months that he's figured it out.. ( I almost feel the same way for myself- I finally figured it out). So I am wondering with you all, Is this what you were missing-- A personnal relationship or maybe your not sure what that means-- what do you think??<P><BR>Bernzini,, What is the status of you and the OM? The OW and I used to have long converstions about our faith- pretty hypocritcal at the time. At this point I see her husband in Mens sunday school, sometimes have to sit next to him, and then during church I see both Him and Her-- sometimes I wonder if it would just be easier to go to another church but I just have a feeling God has A bigger plan. I acually had a dream the other night that the OW family and my family reconsiled and were talking to a group people about our story, very interesting!?

Perch -<P>My H and I are both Christians. I was the one to have the affair. I was raised in a good family, had good values, knew right from wrong, went to church every Sunday, even taught religious education to children. So, I constantly asked myself - how could I have done something like this?<P>My H and I have been in recovery for about 10 months, and we are doing very well. At the time of the affair, and shortly after I told my H about it, I was at the lowest possible point you could possibly be. I even tried to make things worse by taking my life - not once, but twice. Fortunately, I wasn't successful. But you can see the depths of my despair. I felt so guilty, so remorseful. I actually doubted that God could ever love me again. I doubted his mercy.<P>As for the affair, I think several things contributed to my having an affair, but I think the biggest thing was that a small gap developed between me and my relationship with God. Even though I went to church every Sunday, even though I read the Bible, I still relied to heavily on myself to solve my problems. I thought that I knew what was best for me, I even rationalized that having an affair was okay - cause God wants me to be happy, right?<P>The thing is, I don't know where or when it started, but this gap between God and myself just got bigger and bigger - until one day I thought it would be easier to take my own life then to live as I was - always sad, lost, no hope, no faith. But, all the while, I was still going to a Bible study class and we were talking a lot about David and "his story." And I got to thinking that if God could forgive David, then perhaps he COULD forgive me. So, I turned to my faith -to help me get through this.<P>And, I prayed everyday, but this time, I really meant all of the things I prayed for and about. I mean, I was really in despair -it was horrible - but I turned to God one day and said that this battle was too difficult for me to fight and that I needed him to help me. And, that has beent the turning point for me. I turned everything, and my life over to God - for him to do HIS will in my life, not that I do my will. I prayed that the Holy Spirit guide me through this difficult time, and to draw me closer to God. <P>I think, ever since I was a little kid, I thought of God as this all-powerful being that lived in a distant universe, that God was somewhere "out there." But, now, I know that God has to live here with me, live in my heart - in order for me to live as he wants me to live. It's all about knowing the Truth and living the Truth - not just reading it in the Bible. <P>For me, I may have lost my faith for a little while, but I learned how awful that can be. That if you really have to depend on yourself - you will be lost. God needs to be at the helm. And while I read that, I kind of believed that, I wasn't living my life that way. So, when temptation came along, I wasn't prepared to fight it.<P>Now, though, things are kind of different. I think, for someone who has gone through what I have, you really understand the grace and beauty of God. I know that God did not call me to sin, but I have used this experience to draw closer to Him, to rely on Him, and to trust in Him. I have been greatly humbled before Him, and really, I think I needed it.<P>I don't know why I had to go through this, but I know that I am closer to God, that He is at the helm, that He is living in my heart. For me, God still works miracles and He worked one in my life. And, I am so thankful that it was my faith that saw me through this. I finally knew when to ask for help, and as He always does, He came through for me. I think that is what was missing from my life.<P>I've been reading a lot of works by Max Lucado and Charles Swindoll - in addition to reacquainting myself with the Bible. In several of the books, they talk about temptation and trials, etc. . .They advocate perserverence, endurance and reliance on God. In one book, I think Charles Swindoll says that he believes life is "10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you respond to it."<P>Before, I doubted God's love for me, but now I don't. Every Sunday, I used to go to church and acknowledge that Jesus died for my sins, but know I understand why. It's been an amazing transformation - an all the glory belongs to God. It is a beautiful thing to have hope again, to have my sights set on the most important thing, and not on the things that I feel are important fr the moment. <P>When I look back on everything, I can't even imagine the kind of person that I was - it was like a big huge blur in my life - and I barely even remember everything that happened during the A. But, now, everything is so clear. I'm not perfect, but I think God has used this experience to "bring me home" like a prodigal daughter - and it really feels good to be home.<P>So, I try not to focus too much on why this happened - or how could I have let this happen. I know enough to know HOW it could have happened, but now I want to focus on reconciliation and to get my life (and keep) my life on track).<P>I think you are doing a good thing by trying to come to terms with this. And, I am glad that your friend is willing to "clear the air" and possibly forgive you. For me, you never value forgiveness in quite the same way as when your faith has been tested. Forgiveness, mercy, hope - it's the foundation of of our religion - and it is so good to have it. I will pray for you, your family and all others that have been affected by infidelity.<P>For me, I never committed adultery because I knew I would be forgiven. God never even entered the equation. After the affair, after I came to the conclusion that what I was doing was wrong, I felt quite the opposite - that God could never forgive me. So, I have to dissent a little with what Cjack said on that point.<P>I think, quite simply that once this gap developed in my relationship with God, I was willing to believe anything - so I started "rationalizing my behavior." God wants me to be happy, maybe fate brought this person into my life because I'm supposed to be with him. . .It's like trying to listen to someone when you've turned you're back on them. Unless you have absolutely great hearing - it's hard to hear what they're saying. And then when you start waling in the opposite direction - it's hard to even know that someone is trying to talk to you at all. You don't know what is the "truth" anymore.<P>So, I didn't have an affair because I knew I would be forgiven. I gave into temptation because my faith, my relationahip and my reliance on God was not strong enough.<P>Anyway, hang in there perch. Reconciliation with God, your wife and your community is a very good thing. <P>

OM--that makes me laugh!!! to even think of him!!<P>It was 10 years ago. I was 26, married, two kids, a new recruit in the army. He was 19, single--just a boy, actually. He was an infantry soldier--he in fact out-ranked me. The actual "relationship" lasted for about 2 weeks, at very most. Maybe an additional week hashing things out and crying, the way you do when something are engaged in is very wrong and you know it, but you insist that it be.<P>The relationship was never "consumated." And that suited me just fine because I wanted it to be "holy in God's eyes" on our dreamy wedding day. <P>I left my first husband for him--I considered myself separated from my husband, but in fact was not. We had had a really hard time during the preceeding couple of years. He was a lazy bum, ignored me, and hung out with his looser friends most of the time. I gave up on him. (I knew nothing about maintaining marriage back then, even though my church taught me that it must be so. BTW--my ex has changed since then. His IQ has not increased, but he is a much better person now. He had to become so, in order to deal with the pain I inflicted upon him.)<P>At the time of the affair, he was waiting to join me at my new duty station. (Karma--exactly what happened in my new relationship with H#2 to ME!) He was devestated.<P>Boyfriend changed duty stations and told me that he didn't believe in long-distance relationships, goodbye! I cried for months over him, can you believe that?<P>Then I met my husband. He turned out to be the love of my life, and much too late, I turned my thinking around. I dedicated my whole life to him. I loved him obsessively, put him way before God in my priorities. And now look what happened--Miss Kitty came along!<P>I committed a grave sin in the eyes of God. It has been good to come to Marriage Builders and not only unburden my anguish over loosing my dear husband, but also to come clean and reconcile with God about the marriage that I betrayed. The poison is gone and I feel pure inside once more. <P>I am still feeling the reprecussions of it. I see my precious daughters on weekends and pay them child support when I can barely afford to feed the little guy (from my second marriage) who lives with me. <P>I see that God asks that we pay for our wrong-doing and learn from them, then change our lives and return to Him. He is a kind and loving personage who has nothing more than our best interest in mind and does not seek vengence or "punish."<P>That's what I have learned from my trials--both what I put myself through and what I have suffered at the hands of others.<P>God and His pathways are the first and foremost in my life now, and I vow to not deter from them again.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bernzini:<BR><B><BR>I committed a grave sin in the eyes of God. It has been good to come to Marriage Builders and not only unburden my anguish over loosing my dear husband, but also to come clean and reconcile with God about the marriage that I betrayed. The poison is gone and I feel pure inside once more. <P>I am still feeling the reprecussions of it. I see my precious daughters on weekends and pay them child support when I can barely afford to feed the little guy (from my second marriage) who lives with me. <P><BR>...God and His pathways are the first and foremost in my life now, and I vow to not deter from them again.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Bernzini (Mary, if I remember, isn't it?),<P>Sometimes it's hard to look at our lives and see the pain and loss. Past actions have present consequences which may not be easy to live with, as you note.<P>However, when I read your story, I see someone who has grown and changed. You seem to have allowed the pain to soften your heart, rather than hardening it. You want to face the truth, rather than denying it. So I see the positives in your story, of who you are and are becoming, as far outweighing the negatives.<P>Thanks for sharing,<P>Steve<P>PS-Sorry, don't know how I got the frowning icon and I don't think it can be edited. Must need more coffee .<BR><p>[This message has been edited by StillHers (edited January 25, 2001).]

I wish that I could help anyone that has a question--I have been there, done that. I have tried to counsel my own husband, in fact, to no avail. He insists that there is no God and he is justified in what he has done by having an affair.<P>When I was a teen, there was a lovely young couple in our congregation, with three kids. They were team-teaching the teens in Sunday school. I was very close to the wife and occasionally babysat for her. The husband was an elder in the church, but was kind of a cocky young man. It didn't escape me how he would sometimes even flirt with girls in class as he was giving the lesson!! Somehow it didn't suprise me when, years later, I heard that he was cheating on his wife blatantly. He was asked to give up his position in the church. They were divorced, and once, when I was out honkeytonking myself, I saw him raising cain at the bar. It was almost as if I could see into his heart and I knew how sad he was. And also that the once straight but prideful and cocky young man should be reduced to a drunk bum. The lesson didn't escape me, even as I kept playing pool there at Twi-Lite Lounge.<P>If I could tell the young ladies (or anyone for that matter) in the youth group something now, after I have experienced such heartache myself:<P>1) your parents tell you to date clean-hearted young people for a reason, preferably of your own faith, not to be mean or controlling.<P>2) wait til you're married. God did not tell us not to have sex with people outside of marriage because he didn't want us to have fun. Think about all the reasons why it would be wrong--it's not just a "religious" thing.<P>3) Once you find Mr Right, make sure he is Mr Right. Don't settle for Mr Right now because you are lonely or want a boyfriend. Marriage is intended to be forever--could you share your life with the person you are with--honestly? Forseeing any changes that could take place in your life, could you?<P>4) remeber that marriage is not just a covenant with another human being, it is a covenant with God as well. When you break up a marriage, you are breaking a covenant with the entity that created you and the world.<P>5) live in such a way that would make YOU personally, a good spouse. Get a good education, set good goals, make a future. When you meet your future mate, there will be no saying that you didn't have a chance to "live" or "be young" later on.<P>As strange as it may be to say, if I had truly listened when I was a youth, I would not have screwed up as an adult. My foot was already in the door as a kid--the rest was history.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited January 25, 2001).]