HI All,<BR>My goodness, you guys have been busy today! I do love my frineds here at MB....you guys always seem to keep me sane and keep me on track.<P>FHL....I am trying not to take it personally. I am so far from perfect. I probably should have said nothing to this relative, but did. Ya know, loose lips and all that nonsense aside, I might talk to him again if things get rough. lmao...this has to be one of your best quotes "zipped pants = zipped mouth". Thanks fhl. <P>Wassi, he made a huge mess and sometimes i wonder if it will ever be truly cleaned up! Your H's family must know something, but I have a hard time believing they do not bring it up at least to him? There is a fine line at holding them accountable and LBing isnt there. Gads, I know I was more selective abt who I told! I dont even think some of those OWs could carry on a conversation, nor was it expected! <P>Hopelessmom, I sent you a separate post. NOt sure I can help, but happy to talk.<P>NB, how ya been? Never thought of the emotional abuse angle and will give it some consideration. He definitely has the ability and history to try it....and may be exactly what he is doing. I sure felt guilty enough to post, so there is something to it! Took him a few yrs to get burned by the fire, but when he did, he was engulfed in sickness.<BR>Now everyone: keep those lips and zips done up.<P>BamaAngst, whats for dinner? Sorry dear husband, but I am not cooking since it seems you have been eating out so much lately. :0 Mine failed in the protection area, hence the illness, surgery, etc. Not a pretty site. Nice to meet you. Thanks.<P>HI Lor, no he is not in counseling. I am a bit concerned that this is an early signal of his inability to accept total responsibility for his actions. I thought he had, but this does not look good-regression? Sometimes I wonder if he wants and expects me to clean up the mess? He does little things that make me think so. We went to a family reunion a few mos ago and he stated that he hoped I would tell his sister that all was fine with us. I told him I thought it best conming from him if he wanted her to know that! His weak response was that she listens to me better than to him. Embarrasment? Unaccountable?<P>LostVA, we will see you in June right? Your situation was pretty obvious my dear....after all there was a poptart and he went downhill rapidly! I like that coworker!! That would be the perfect POJA. I like the zipper one too. I will use both just to make sure he gets it! Loud and clear?!<P>Letstry, i think both of us need to work on the poja and get them to understand! Grrr, they are frustrating. Many in his family know, but few in my family know. And no one off this board knows the extent of his affairs-gads, they would think me crazy?! Glad it is a former employee.<P>HI Rodger, oh, that is a tough place to be. You had to get the details thru an interpreter? I can understand how these opionions develop, but can you keep bring them around by sharing positive things? If you speak positively of your relationship and the changes since the affair, then surely they will come back around? <P>Peppermint....my goodness, I am laughing away here! Everday? Her heart is in the right place!!! And h just smiles, reassures her and goes on? Too funny. Now that I think about it, could you send her around to all of us? Pllleassse?<P>NB, could that be taken 2 ways? <P>Thanks all for the encouragement and laughs! You are all wonderful. I think I will let this guilt go-not sure it is mine to carry around! <BR>Aloha, cl<BR><p>[This message has been edited by cl (edited March 30, 2001).]

Hi cl:<P>I'm on your husband's side on this one (to a point). You've violated the Rule of Complete Honesty, and he got sideswiped by it. You should be completely honest in who (and what) you told.<P>On the other hand, if he's lovebusting with his anger, it's not good either. But you definitely owe him an apology for not discussing this with him. I don't think it's as much anger over him not wanting to take responsibility as the fact that you kept secrets from him that just hurt him (granted he started it, and his actions were a million times worse...).<P>Let him know that you're sorry this came out in this fashion. And if you have anything else to 'fess up to, you should do it immediately.

HI K,<BR>Ahhhh, is this a reality check?! <BR>Yes I violated the Honesty Rule. No doubt about that. I am flipflopping about the apology!!! <BR>I need to apologize since he was sideswiped by this revelation, but I need to be careful how I do it, what I say and when I say it.<BR>Looks like it will be an e-mail apology, so that does give me some control.<BR>Thanks K! Hope all is wonderful with you.<BR>

<B>CL</B><P>Well honey I am late as usual. I know you know why and thank you from the bottom of my heart for the e-mail today. I am doing better so the prayers must have helped a bunch.<P>I have to tell you that I told a whole bunch of people. Now I didn't go around like the town crier by any means. I also told my husband right from the get go that I would tell whom ever I chose to. That he created this situation and if I felt the need to tell someone I would. I was sorry this would cause him embarrassment but I had to do what I had to do. The choice of the affair was his and he would have to deal with the repercussions of it. Plain and simple. Now I realize this was no POJA. I was in huge grief of course and people could tell something was wrong and it was outside of the average soap opera that seems to reign around here.<P>I didn't find people judging him harshly at all. It was a huge thing though when his Mother found out inadvertently from a relative that happened to share the same prayer request line I did on the web! She is a very strong Christian woman and his father had an affair on her in about the most similar way you can imagine. He returned home to her, but left for good in another five years. When she showed up here and confronted me, I just about freaked. I figured his family was for him to tell or not to tell. His Mom and he are very close. Well, she did give it to him good and hard, but with love. In the very same time frame his sister had an affair, divorced her husband and eventually married the OM. So my mother in law was about at wits end. She supported us and is one proud as a peach woman and her remarkable son and the marriage we now have together. <P>I am a motor mouth for sure, as everyone here knows at the site. I don't regret telling to many people though. People who knew us now see a healed marriage and a complete change between my husband and I. It is a great testimony to marriage and working through the hard times. For people who don't know, they are rather confused at the turn about for us, and tell me all the time they can't believe how tight we are and how well we are doing. They figured that we would be divorced by now, and if they were betting people they'd have lost their money. See they were betting on us not making it. <P>Your hubby's anger is misplaced. I pray he gets it in the right place. I think he will. Meanwhile you might relate my story back to him and let him know how fortunate he is to have a wife that wasn't a motor mouth. <P>Much love and big hugs honey. I am on here every night practically, being the afternoon shift widow I am. If you want to chat, you know where to find me.<P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CL}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>By the way, you do sound good. Makin’ me smile there gal. <P><BR>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 31, 2001).]

Hello all <BR>I was away for so long... missed you all, but it was also good for me to be away for a while.Not even lurking.<BR>Cheryl I too confided in some people, and remember hubby being quite upset about it. Most of the people I told about what happened, he knows.But reading your post made me think, what if now, after almost 3 years, the same thing that happened to your h happened to him?<BR>Know what? Think he wouldn't like it either.<BR>Not only it's something he avoids thinking about, but then it is something he realized was not one of his best moments...no I don't think he would be too happy about it.<BR>But one thing I learned: I was not the one who "made a mistake", I was hurting, he wasn't there for me to talk to, I needed to talk. SO have to agree with FHL - FHL I really had to giggle at your answers - "he was the one that didn't keep some part of his anatomy between ourselves" .<BR>I have no advice, however I think his anger won't last too long. It's just a defense reaction to what he feels was an attack - from both you at that time, and your relative now.<BR>Hugs

Dear cl and the gang,<P>To tell or not to tell? Well, if the reason is to provide support for the BS, then the BS would need to be selective in who knows and how much. I don't know of 1 WS who encouraged telling everyone. WS reasons on this subject are worth considering but since their line of reasoning during the height of the A is not terribley balanced anyway, why should their input rule the world for us at this time?<P>I chose to tell. I chose to tell certain ones carefully. Those that I took into my confidence were asked to be my support and respect my decisions. That included the FIL, MIL and my parents. Those at work knew some. They had to. In my case, my anxiety attacks happened right at work. My boss knows some, my immediate staff (I am a manager -an office with a door - thank goodness) and some co-workers (my level). All had the respect my decisions speech but please be honest with me. I can say that all have respected my requests. I am blessed with friends and family with such integrity. As time went on, that circle of confidants expanded since H moved out. Son's school had to be notified, I needed legal advice, people started noticing H was not around. 2 neighbors on each side were made aware. All have been supportive and not condemming. <P>Unfortunately, H does not appreciate his friends and family. He & OW have made appearances throught the valley. Only time will tell when they will be spotted together. H has already been spotted by some of his friends in questionable places. H pretends not to notice some of his friends. So H is giving them the cold shoulder. <BR>Therfore, in reality, if there is any gossip, it is based on the actions of H not mine. Here I post a lot. More is known here than most. So you have been my trusted allies. <P>However, I know that someday, H will find out who I have told. I am prepared for that to be known so I am not ashamed of who I have told. There are no secrets with me. I do not find it beneficial to have secrets. That is a line that OW and WS's use. "Let's keep this A between only us. No one else needs to know." That is an excuse and a bad one. <P>By the way, H doesn't want others to know his business, but he wants to know other's business. H is not special that he deserves that kind of treatment. So he does not get any.<P>H tells me that he will tell others 'what I am really like'. I say ok, go ahead but I already did that. That popped another bubble. <P>L.

Morning All,<BR>Still formulating the apology. K is right, as usual!!!<BR>I do need to honor the honesty. I am still conflicted about how and what. There are a few other revengeful antics that I should fess up to also. Whew.....this will be fine, right?.<BR>Samantha, how very sweet of you to post while you have so many tough issues in your life right now. I am thinking of you and will send you an e-mail today. She found out from a friend on the net! Gads, that is tough-especially with all the other things thrown in. Sons and moms have that special relationship. Thanks for the encouragement. The guilt I was feeling is not healthy.<P>Kat?! I think you did more than a little giggle at fhl's new rule! I bet you were laughing out loud for awhile. Do they make a chastity belt for men? H did feel attacked and it caught off guard. I honestly dont know what I expected from this relative-think I was just so lost and searching for some magic words to heal everything quickly! As a child, he could do this-he was my hero. Oh my....then the rude awakening that this could not be cured overnight with a pill!!! I am planning an apology of some sorts and will run it by here before I send it to him. Think I need some help on this one!!! <P>Orchid, thanks for the support. Are your anxiety attacks under control now? That must have been hard to deal with at work. I feel for you. It sounds like you were more controlled after d-day than I was? I guess one would say I was pretty nuts....I am not even sure who or what I told. The memory of that time is very blurry. I remember mentioning that we had marital problems to his brother. I remember telling a longtime friend of his that called not to try to reach h here anymore because he would likely be with an OW! One of my sisters called one day wanting to talk to h about a car, and I told her that she should try to reach him at WhoresRUs. I was not exactly calm, cool and collected! I need to try and remember and then try to wrap this into one tidy apology. Post discovery I developed a coping mechanism by putting things away in the closets of my mind, now it is time to dig some of those things out and spring clean? <P>Thank you all!!!!!!! Aloha, cl<BR>

So are you apologizing for telling your relative or for not telling your H you told this relative?<P>Actually, I can understand that he was upset he was caught off guard and that in the Rule of Honesty, in a recovered relationship, this should have been something you shared.<P>And so a carefully crafted apology is in order, but I still don't think you should feel badly about talking with him, given the situation. <P>K, if you are still out there, by MB rules, what do you think?<P>And after the apology, how about including some animated clip art that would illustrate the zipped up, zipped shut guarantee? <P>And remember this was a little oops compared to H's OOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPS'S<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cl:<BR><B>BamaAngst, whats for dinner? Sorry dear husband, but I am not cooking since it seems you have been eating out so much lately. :0 Mine failed in the protection area, hence the illness, surgery, etc. Not a pretty site. Nice to meet you. Thanks.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm sorry if I upset you. I guess I was just trying to be cute. Lucky for me, my wife didn't bring any microbiotic friends home with her... just one macrobiotic infestation ;-)))<P>Bama<P>

HI bama, Upset me? Heavens no!!!! Just the opposite, I laughed like crazy off and on for hours! My response was crude, but guess my mind was in the gutter again! I will behave but when I read it, I pictured different food types. <BR>HI FHL, i was thinking just along those lines. To apologize for not telling him who I told without apologizing for yabbering. Waiting for K's answer on this one!!! <BR>Love the idea to lighten things up a bit! Will see what I can do in finding something. Share any sites that might help? <BR>Still raining here.....a day of rest?

Your husband is mad at you for telling someone that he cheated??? Excuse me but isn't that a little off the mark? <P>If he wanted to keep the A secret, he should have kept it in his pants. Affairs get discovered eventually, no doubt about it. They are risky. You should not be expected to keep his "dirty little secret" in order to save his reputation. He should have thought about that before he screwed around.

Hi CL,<P>Glad you are going to apoligize. I know it is hard and seems unfair but you are such a wonderful person. I am sure every BS has done some mean nasties when the A was discovered. Boy I know I did with each and every affair. I just stoped the behavior because it was not doing me or Tony any good. I know you have tried more than not to save the marriage. Deep down I am sure your H understands this...sometimes it is just hard to see when they are in selfish mode. <P>I still have not found a job. Trying very hard. The market is rather soft right now. I am worried that I might loose the house if I do not find work soon. I am just trying to take it one day at a time. Thank you for asking.<P>I am glad you still post here. I wish you the best. (((((((((CL))))))))))

Yes cl, I was laughing my head off to be honest <BR>ANd yes, an apology for not telling him would be a nice olive branch offering. <BR>I would probably do it.<BR>In any case - devil's advocate again LOL - I see it like this: yes, following the rule of honesty, I should have told him of everyone I spoke about the affair, but realistically... I am there, coping with what happened, trying to rebuild, paying attention to EN, I am sorry but making a list of all that were told was not exactly on my mind at that time, and the conversation never came up after.<BR>SInce yesterday I've been trying to think if there is anyone that I never mentioned to him - not that I told to that many people LOL - and I'm still not sure if I missed someone or not.But hey, it was there for all to see, even if I didn't say anything some people found out anyways.So my guilty feeling if I missed tell him about someone, is not that big.<BR>After saying that, I still think that the apology won't hurt and will most probably help, as long as it's understood that is being offered for not telling him, as opposed as for telling your relative.For that you have no reason to apologize in my opinion.<BR>Hugs....<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>"Each and everyone of us is deserving of a gentle thougth, a kind word and the gift of understanding"

Hi cl,<P>What should you apologize for seems to be the question. My answer would be for whatever "hurt" your husband's feelings. You do need to be careful in how you craft the apology, because you should lie (say you're sorry when you're not), but you shouldn't tack on "qualifiers" (like "I wouldn't have had to worry about this [censored], if you hadn't been having an affair in the first place...") <P>So, I guess that I would apologize for having him gotten "blindsided" by your relative. That provides a great lead in for saying "in the spirit of complete honesty in our marriage, I feel that I should tell you about these issues...". Let him know anyone else who you confided in. You can probably honestly tell him that you did so at the time for support, because you were hurting---but that you never did this to intentionally hurt him or his relationship with your confidants. Let him know that you're telling him now so he won't be blindsided again. If there are any "fallouts" for this (for example, he might want to avoid your axe-wielding second cousin), let him know that you'll be happy to discuss it (POJA style).<P>Do the email not to point fingers, or to defend actions, or assign blame. Do it to build a united front, and love between a husband and wife.<P>And I'm doing great, BTW!!

HI ALL, <BR>okay I am going to work on this letter a bit more before I send it. I want it just right....as usual!<BR>Kelski, yes, I understand what you are saying abt keeping his pants zipped! I think we all agree that he failed that one in a major way. Now I just sew him into them in the morning and not let him drink anything til he gets home. But I do owe him an apology for not being totally honest with him regarding confidentes. I am not going to apologize for talking, though I must admit part of me wanted to hurt him, I am apologizing for him not knowing what should have been shared info in our marriage. Thanks.<BR>Paha, Best of luck in your job search. I know you will find something you really like-something that challenges your quick mind. Thanks for the support! They were in selfish mode-perfect description of their mindset.<BR>Kat, you are exactly right with the olive branch. And I will offer it. If I had said nothing to anyone about all this, no one would have known......HAH! Only the 'friends' he slept with, the siblings that he hung around with picking up women, etc. Still, it is on the works. Glad to hear you are doing so well. Thanks.<BR>Ahhhh I was waiting for you K! And you never let me down.<BR>Yes, the issue is what I am apologizing for. So I will rewrite a short e-mail....again and send it off. You are right-I did not follow the rules that I expect him to follow. Uhohhhhh, a woman with double standards?! There aer likely others, but I sure dont know who at this point. Hopefully no one with an axe. Thanks k. Glad all is wonderful!!! aloha, cl

oops, sorry<p>[This message has been edited by cl (edited April 02, 2001).]