S&C,<BR>two main thing you need to try to do if you ever talk to her or see her, which I'm sure you do if your Plan "A"ing right. <BR>1)try to never talk about the OM to her, that will only put her on the defensive, which in turn will put you on the defensive....leads to a fight. Never try to push her into no contact with the OM. remember how children rebel against their parents wishes? well consider her a child.<P>2) try your best to act strong. Not mean and tough, just confident. Dont be all sappy and dont try to pour all kinds of love all over her. She seems like that she is at a point where she will not respond to that directly. But try to be her best friend(i know it is hard). <P>Take her out to lunch, ask her how her day was, how her work is going. dont grovel or cry, try to make your contact with her a pleasant experience for her. then when the situation with the OM starts to have problems(which it more than likely will) you will be there and she will remember how great of a guy you were.<P>------------------<BR>Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

Bioman,<P>can I really be her best friend? she actually asked me to be a friend over the next few weeks. Her sister in another state is going in for a masectomy on thursday, so my wife is leaving tomorrow to be with her. Her sister is only 31 and wasnt done having children. Also my W is now in the 50% risk bracket. She told me that she will call every night to say goodnight to the kids. She asked if she could talk to me when times are tough on her because she wants to be strong for her sister. BUT she wanted to make sure I do NOT read any sign of hope into it. I sent her an email late last night that said I would be an ear if she wanted to talk. That I would be a shoulder if she needed to cry. She emailed me back saying that she appreciates it and that she knows that its tough for her to asks me to be her friend but not her husband. Is this a good step or is this letting her take advantage of me?

Well you can meet her EN's by being her friend and not being her Husband. She doesnt want a husband. It is hard, trust me i could not do it. but i know if i would have i may have saved my marriage. Me and my wife were very good friend before we started dating. and we have always been good friends as well as lovers. Well when the problems started i was mad and hurt so i pretty much crushed the friendship part. So she removed the lover part and i removed the friendship part..so we have NOTHING to build on now. See a friendship is more than nothing. And your friendship to her is different then just a friend that she has just met. At one time she was very happy with you, she just is lost it now. And if your at least being her friend she will hopefully find this happiness with your again. Set a personal time frame, met her EN for a while and see how she responds. if it seem that she is not responding then. Start plan B. And if you havent..read surviving an affair.<P>------------------<BR>Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

S&C - good job on the school play thing and the shoulder to cry on, etc. Keep it up - you're making deposits. When is it caving? When it's not reasonable or when you have your own responsibilities to tend to. To me, the kids should always come first, and family things like her sister are a close second for never denying a favor. But when it comes to bending over so far backwards that you think it's too much - draw the line.<P>WAT

I'm just going to throw in some random thoughts based on what I have read.<P>When you are nice and she says you are weak, use the standard line. You love her, you are committed to your marriage and to being the best husband possible, and that you are making changes in youself to make yourself better and be the best you can be. Do take a serious look within yourself so that this is true. We can all improve. Typically, after being married for a long time, things can get routine....too many of us let that happen. Read books like Surviving an Affair, HN/HN, Light Her Fire, 10000 Ways to Say I Love You. You'll get ideas for surprising her, even if you are living apart.<P>Right now she knows darn well that it is her that is trying to end the marriage, so she wants you to feel as though it is your fault. Don't let her win. As hard as it is to stomach this crap, you have got to look at this as a long process, and not react to the events that happen each day. They won't all make sense, and logical thinking will fail at trying to analyze and make sense of things.<P>DO NOT file on her, because that is not what you want. That would make it easy on her. She is in a fantasy land now, same as all the other WS, and it will take alot of time and patience (and consistency) to make her realize what she is trying to throw away.<P>Don't do any more whining, and do your utmost to get the whipped puppy dog look off your face at all times when she is around. There is always a tendency to show your shattered emotions around her and let her know how hurt you are, but that drives her away more. If you were going to start dating someone, would you choose someone that was happy and confident or someone that had a sad and hurt look? You can tell her that you are hurt tremendously, and that is totally fine, but just don't act helpless and sad all the time. This is easier said than done, but you will learn to do it through time. And it is easy to think that if she sees you happy looking, she'll just figure you're OK so she can continue to leave you. It doesn't work like that over the long term. They wonder why you are happy, and it gets them thinking about you as being more attractive. You want to be the kind of person that first attracted her to you.<P>The play thing was Plan Aing. Good job. Keep that up. Just be her friend, and don't grovel. You'll start to look more attractive to her. But it will take alot of time (can be many months). You want to meet as many of her needs and be the best you can be, because if you ever have to go Plan B, you want the last memory of you to be good.<P>It is not too late, to answer your question about begging and accusations. Start now doing it right, and one month from now you can look back and see a month of good Plan A material. Don't put it off.<P>If you have not done things you always wanted to do, start doing them. If you've stopped doing something you love, do it again. Figure out what it is that she wants, and do whatever you are allowed to do that falls on that list.<P>Good luck. We'll be here to help along the way.

The problem is I moved out already. I did it because she said it was the ONLY way that we were going to make our marriage work. Does this automatically qualify as Plan B?

Well you are set up for plan B if you need to go that far. But just try to be there for her, dont pressure her into doing things with you. If she asks for help and you can help her do it. And dont remind her every time you do something how much you love her. Your actions will speak for themselves. Try to be kind. Like I said invite her to lunch and talk about good possitive things. Let her know that life with you would not be miserable. Dont tell her that, just show her. and their are ways to do little things for her without it looking like your weak or your groveling.<BR>And if you have done this for a time that you have set for yourself, and it is not working. Then resort to Plan B. <P>------------------<BR>Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

Gosh. . .my husband got smart. He gets the cell phone bill out of the mailbox before I can see it--actually carries it around on his person, guarding it carefully. As for the computer, he has his personal files compartmentalized somehow so that I can't see what he's doing. (I can see the cookies, of course, from the temporary internet files. 90% is porn and the like.)<P>Nevertheless, he has one of those keystroke thingies so that he can log everything that I do on here. Making sure that I am being good. I don't care. Whatever.<P>And he is very angry with me for not trusting him. He says he is not hiding anything. He says that I am trying to invade his privacy--and that's lower than low. He says he uses his computer for work and that he doesn't want me to know company business (uh huh. Like I care about company business.) I guess he needs a webcam for company business, and that Evil Angel is part of the company. . .<P>Anyways, yeah, I know. . .it's all my fault, too. I just keep screwing up and making him chat with all of his nice internet lady friends. Just can't help it, silly me. When will I learn?

I think you should move back in, and tell her that if she wants out of the marriage, she can leave. Did you talk to an attorney about this? She is having it too easy. And telling you that this is the only way the marriage can work is hogwash. She wanted the space to be able to sneak around.<P>Anyone else?

ditto Rick absolutely!!!!!!!! Move back in. Don't even tell her you're coming. Do it while she's away with her sister, then tell her when she calls to cry on your shoulder. "Honey, I wanted to be here close for you." She cannot stop you. THE smartest thing I ever did was to tell my wife she could leave if she wanted, but I wasn't going to leave my home or my son. Period.<P>BTW, it's NOT the only way to make your marriage work. Guess what the best way is? STOP THE AFFAIR!!!!!!!<P>Give me directions, I'll come help you. Rick will bring the beer if we ask him nicely.<P>WAT<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited April 24, 2001).]