I have been married for 2 years to my absolute best friend in the world. I have never posted, but need to today. my h is out of town and i drove 4 total hours last night to see this married man that I have been with now three times. we haven't ever slept together, but the guilt I feel today just feels so bad. My husband knows about the first time we were together and we were trying to get past it but for some reason i can't stay away from this man. HELP!!! if guilt could kill I would be dead, but why isn't that enough to stop me from seeing him? I have the most wonderful man in the world for a husband (who knows who, what/where, etc. about this other man and STILL stands by me because he trusts I can beat this) .... HELP!

Hi Struggling. You've made an excellent move coming here and posting. I think it also speaks highly of your character and sincerity that you know you have a problem and you want help in fixing it. My experience has been that WSs receive a lot of support on this forum. Who would know better than me? I'm one, too. Well, I WAS one. I'm not sure what my title should be now.<P>At any rate, you wouldn't be here if you weren't serious, and the guilt you're experiencing is the best evidence that you know what you're doing is wrong. You haven't slept with this man yet, so you've still got a great chance to dodge a potentially fatal bullet. You haven't told us why this man appeals so much to you. What does he give you that your husband doesn't? When you go to him, what are you looking for that you can't get from the man you pledged your life to? What about his marriage? What is it lacking? You need to give us a bit more information so we can offer better advice to you. As it stands, you're probably learning to love and hate the way you feel when you're with this man. Here's the best blanket statement I can give you: it's not worth it. If you let this go any further you'll very likely wind up hating yourself and your life and I can tell you with authority that nothing is worth feeling that way. Get out now while you still have the chance and your marriage is intact.<P>You know, if this OM really loved you, if he was really worth it, he'd tell you to stay away from him to protect you from your guilt. As you say, your husband still stands by you, even though I can promise you this is tearing him up. He's the one who is willing to sacrifice his peace of mind and suffer for you. Tell us what's really going on here. There are people on this board who can help you and your marriage.

Hi Struggling27-<P>Welcome to MB. You have come to a good place. Like Clarity?, I am also a WS (female), I had an emotional affair, too. It would help us to know more of your story. <P>What is happening to you is very powerful, very addictive and very common. You are showing strength and wisdom by trying to deal with it. Like Clarity? said, you need to figure out what emotional needs (ENs) the OM is filling for you. Look at the EN questionaire:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html</A> <P>and read up on ENs on this site. <P>You have to understand that your relationship with OM is an affair. It can become a physical affair very easily, but even as an EA, is has the potential to ruin your marriage. Your feelings for OM are addictive, just like a drug. You may need help breaking the addiction, even if you understand these feelings are wrong. Giving OM up will be hard (I know - see my post in "In Recovery under the thread started by positivebryan), you will need help from your H, you may need counseling, and you can get support here at MB. <P>You seem to know that what you are doing is wrong. That is a very good step. Get the book "Surviving an Affair" and share it with your H. The only good way to end the affair is to stop seeing the OM completely. You need to send him a "No Contact" letter. And then you need to get help to be strong and follow through on never contacting him again. <P>Although you may have a wonderful H, and a good M, you need to think about what was missing to be able to look for a relationship with OM. Even if it feels like "it just happened" you need to search deeper, because in a fulfilling marriage, it shouldn't happen. The needs being met by OM should be met by your H. <P>You can do this. Many people have been in situations similar or much worse than yours, and have saved their marriages. You sound like you want to try. That is why I say YOU CAN DO THIS. <P>Remember, this, too. What you have done is wrong, you know it. This does not make you a bad person. You can be strong, and you are trying to be honest. You can stop doing this, work on your marriage, and be the good, loyal, honest person that you want to be. You are human, and made a very human mistake, based on very human weakness and needs. It seems you are blessed with a H who will stick with you and will help you. YOU CAN DO THIS.<P>[This message has been edited by Clouds (edited May 03, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Clouds (edited May 03, 2001).]

Thank you SO much for your reply!!! Oh my gosh, I just spent an hour with my friend in the ladies room bawling my eyes out about this mess, and of course came back to the office with a message to call him. Let me tell you a little bit about the situation, thanks in advance for your help! I feel better already knowing I can get help through this and hope to help someone else in the future.<P>I have known this man for about 4 years, have always had a strong admiration for him, he is 14 years (!!!!) older than me, I am 27, he is turning 41 this month. ... he holds a higher position within my workplace (although we don't have to work together on a daily basis, we aren't in the same dept.) and is kind of a "figurehead" here. We went on a business trip in January to NY, we avoided disaster and came back unscathed, although the attraction had mounted on that trip. Then I planned an event and worked hand in hand with him for weeks, my husband began to call him my boyfriend in jest because he knew how much I liked this guy (Husband is wonderful, never would have believed I would have acted on this)... we went out that night after the event to "celebrate" he invited his wife and I my husband, neither spouse came and we thought we were safe because we were with a group. (all men, 1st mistake I guess but I have always been a "guys girl" if that makes sense)... we ended up kissing and so it isn't an innocent affair unfortunately, it is physical, just not all the way physical if that makes sense. To me it is much more emotional than anything else. I have a great sex life with my husband, we have actually been trying to have a baby for about 6 months (to no avail ... wonder why??? :-( too much on my mind I guess) so it is more the conversation, the "friendship" with this man. I am just now realizing that our 3 rendevous have been RIDICULOUS and just got kind of seedy last night. I drove out to see him out of town, he "put" me in a bar for an hour while he finished up his work, (so I sat in this hole in the wall bar for an hour waiting for him , HELLO!!!) and then he took me to dinner, we came back walked on the beach and then "fooled around" for a little while. Then when i left, I thought I was going to die, didn't even call me to see if I got home ok. ... this person has always been so "nice" to me and I thought he respected me and now I realize for the first time maybe that he absolutely doesn't respect me ... or care for me. It is such a mess and that is the hardest part, I feel like such a fool for falling for this whole thing, he knows better, is so much older than me, his wife doesn't know, etc. ... I am an attractive (not very much feeling that way today) successful woman in a very happy marriage and then I think I love this other man, even though he is treating me this way!!! My mom knows about this and says that it is almost like things were "too good" for me for too long, I had to go and screw it up. It is like OM and I just were fighting this tension/attraction for so long, and now we can't stop ourselves. it is so dumb though because it has been 3 months now and three rendevous all the first week of the month, and then we try to be friends, and end up in the same situation again.<P>I want to do the right thing, I want to end this, I want to make my husband proud of me and I want to be proud of myself ... I feel strong right now because I am MAD at the way he treated me, I am better than that... I just hate that I know I will see him all day Saturday for a work engagement and my husband won't be tehre and I need to stay strong and stay away from him. HOW DO YOU GET OVER SOMEONE? How can you care so much for someone who is so not right for you? That nothing can come of ???? It hurts so bad

Also, I went to therapy 4 days after the initial night with OM. I went again 2 weeks later and haven't been back, thinking all the while that I could "handle" it... also, my H knows about the first time (obviously) but I haven't told him about the other 2 times, it will destroy him and I can't hurt him anymore. See this is why I feel like a hypocrit too, here I am saying I can't bear to hurt him again, but there I was hundreds of miles from my home last night with this OM. What a fool I am. The guilt is unbelievable, and what is so scary is I don' tknow what it is going to "take" for me to get past this, I am so afraid I will just keep repeating this terrible cycle. I think I love OM, actually I know I do. And hate him at the same time.

You still haven't told us what your husband doesn't give you that this man does! From what you say, this man is a creep and your husband is pure gold, but if that's the case, something doesn't add up here. How can you love two men at the same time? You're infatuated with the OM because he provides something for you that your husband doesn't for whatever reason. I think you're really playing with fire here, struggling. You've already "fooled" around with OM and felt awful for it. How long before "fooling around" becomes something more than that? How will you feel then?<P>Do you really want out of this situation? You seem to go back and forth between wanting out and "loving" the other man. You can't have it both ways. If you're serious about your marriage, quit your job, sever all contact with this man and actively devote yourself to your husband. So far, it sounds like he hasn't done anything to deserve this from you. What has encouraged you to stray?

struggling:<P>You have a problem. It's unclear why this is happening in your marriage (if your husband is so wonderful, and your marriage is fulfilling). But it is.<P>Harley's four rules for successful marriages are:<P>1. Protection (from lovebusters)<BR>2. Care (meeting emotional needs)<BR>3. Honesty (complete and total)<BR>4. Time (spending 15 hrs/week quality time together).<P>I would strongly suggest that you call the MB counseling center (888-639-1639) and set up an appointment with either Steve or Jenn Harley. They can help you with this faster than if you try to do this on your own. You will need to be completely honest with your husband about what's going on here: it will not "destroy" him, although he will certainly be hurt by your behavior. If you don't, you run a very serious and real risk of having this affair be much worse---and THAT will be harder. By telling your husband, the two of you can work together to help you be more accountable, as well as strengthening your marriage.<P>If you don't---I'm afraid that you'll be like any other addict---you'll feel guilty for a while after the high wears off, but you'll come back for more after the guilt is done. You need to completely separate from this OM: either change your job or take extra precautions that will ensure that you will not be in contact with him.

wow, wasn't expecting the complete 180 on the words from you clarity, but I can understand it. This just happened again less than 24 hours ago, so it is hard to feel so strongly about hating him and wanting to end it RIGHT now, does that make sense? that is the whole point of this, what the hell am I doing or looking for when I have everything I want?? what kind of a person does this make me??? I WANT and need to end things, but then i get kind of swept up in the whole feeling of being around him (which by the way felt great until last night when I waited for over an hour for him!!) <P>are all of the WSs ready to sever all ties immediately upon first posting or is it a process? that may take a few months? i wonder about that

struggling27:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>are all of the WSs ready to sever all ties immediately upon first posting or is it a process? that may take a few months? i wonder about that<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Don't bother wondering. Of course you don't "want" to sever ties now. The only bad thing that's happened to you is that you've been stood up in a bar for 60 minutes.<P>Let me give you a synopsis of my story, and show you how bad it can get:<P>My wife started an internet affair. It became a physical affair when we moved. My kids knew his kids. When I discovered it, she couldn't "do the right thing". It's very common for a wayward spouse to fence-sit, incapicated---pulled by what's right and what "feels good". She did this for 6 months while I used the MB counseling (Steve Harley) and Plan A. We separated (Plan B). My kids were devestated. She became pregnant by the OM. She went to have an abortion, and couldn't go through it. Her world completely fell apart...<P>Fast forward (nearly three years). We are together (with a beautiful 2 year old addition). We did it the "hard way". And as bad as you can imagine this horror was for me to live through---it's worse for my wife. I'm over it---but she still lives with the guilt and the pain.<P>Do YOURSELF a favor. Call MarriageBuilders. Don't do what my wife did---end this immediately, and start rebuilding before some real harm is done. You can be successful doing this stuff "the hard way", but it's, well, <B>HARD</B>. And your chances for success go down the farther you go into this affair.

I didn't mean to upset or offend you, struggling, if I did. I'm not sure I did a 180 either, but my last response might have been harsh. I apologize. I guess I just know what you're getting yourself into and I bristle now when I see someone setting herself and her husband and very likely the OM's wife up to suffer.<P>It IS a process, and we WSs are trying to save you a heap of misery by telling you to get out of this situation, now. The longer you play with this man, the harder it's going to be when you decide to end it. Look, when I came here I was in the heart of my EA and I felt like the worst person in the world. Everything I read here said that affairs lead to nothing but suffering for everyone involved, and instead of ignoring what people said and finding out for myself, I chose to take their advice, tell my wife, and end all contact with the OW. Was it easy? No. Have I been tempted to contact the OW? Yes. Have I had chances to re-establish contact? Many. Am I glad I didn't re-establish contact? Absolutely. How did I know it was the right thing to do? The guilt I was suffering (and that you are suffering right now) began to go away, and I stopped hating myself for the first time in months. I'll tell you the truth about it. It was very hard to end contact and it hurt, because I considered the OW a friend and I had to sacrifice that friendship to do what was right. I was also addicted to the OW and what she did for me and it was hard to sacrifice that validation, too. However, no matter how hard it was, it was worth it to not feel the shame anymore. Absolutely worth it.<P>I'm sorry if I sound abrasive. I'm trying to help you avoid suffering as much as you might suffer if you keep playing this game. Here's a nugget of truth: if you end all contact with this man, it will hurt like crazy, but the hurt will go away, and very soon I expect you'll stop feeling this longing for him. It takes strength, but lots of people have done it. This doesn't mean you'll immediately fall back in love with your husband, but if you're sincere and you focus your energy on your husband and doing what's right, things can and will right themselves. In the beginning it's all about willpower. I know you can do it. Isn't your marriage worth that effort?

Ugh, I was kind of hoping to hear some "horror" stories and I appreciate you telling me yours. I am happy that you and your wife worked things out. I know that we can too, I wonder how your wife sorted through her feelings, that is what I can't seem to figure out... It sounds ludicrous to love two men, but I am IN love with my husband but am almost more obsessed with this other man. I will DEFINITELY call MB, and I appreciate you suggesting that. As you know, the lows get pretty low and I am all the way down today. AND I don't want to just go back to the employee assistance program and sit with someone who doesn't really help. MB specializes in cases like mine (I guess, as I said today I am a first time post) ... i just want to be told that I can do the right thing, that this is fixable and what steps (besides leaving my job ... then it beats me!) i can take to win this.........

Thanks Clarity, thank you very much. Your words are inspirational. Up until this point I have been saying to myself "i can handle this, I can have this man in my life and control myself" .. now it is obvious that I absolutely can't control myself because I haven't wanted to. Now I think for the first time I want to. I know it sounds dumb to be so upset about the bar thing and the no call after i left incident, but right now it is what I have to hold on to. An actual feeling of NOT thinking he is as great as I thought. My husband would NEVER leave me sitting somewhere (bar or no bar) for an hour ... and then not even really come in to say hi.. just kind of waved at me from the door! Husband would NEVER treat me like that.<BR> OM never did either, but now he HAS, so now the red flags (that were waving before here and there that I ignored) are NOW blazing ... I just need to keep concentrating on them. I know he will keep calling, I have asked him not to in the past. have even told him I can't handle this and I dont' want this to be going on adn then we still get ourselves in the same situations.<P>If it is this new dislike that I have for him what I need to get past it, as petty as it might sound, a beginning to getting over this? Until now I have thought that the OM has walked on water, (all the while walking all over his wife, etc.) and now he is not so great at all. doesn't hold a candle to my husband. I KNOW that and now I just need to STOP MAKING THE WRONG DECISIONS!!!

That's where the willpower comes in, struggling. You know what the wrong decisions are and you can't allow this man to influence you to do the wrong thing. He doesn't sound like much of a person to me. I'm sure his wife would agree.<P>I overlooked things about the OW that would have horrified me in another person. That's the nature of what we call the Fog. The Fog blinds you to the bad things and only lets you see the good things. You know consciously that this man is all wrong for you. When you separate from him and pour yourself into your marriage your subconscious will catch up and you'll start to see what a big fantasy this all is. Do a search under my username and you'll see that I was right where you are. My two boldest posts are "Come on baby lift my fog" and "Come on baby lift my fog II." You'll see that I thought a lot of the things you are thinking and you'll see how the people here encouraged me to handle things. You can do it. Of course you can. Get your husband to help you. Deep down inside you know what the right thing is. It's hard, but you absolutely can make yourself do it.

Please edit your posts and add paragraphs...<P>it is really hard to read long posts without them<P><BR>thanks,<BR>Lizzie

Hi struggling,<P>I know how you feel.<P>I came here as the betrayer, and was pretty deeply in the withdrawl process. I had told my then-H about the affair -- and that is the ONLY thing I did right until I came here. Still, I was upset that I had to do the *work* if I wanted the marriage to succeed. I didn't do the work and I am divorced. <P>I speak from hindsight.<P>I'd suggest you really look into Plan A <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>What Are Plan A and Plan B</A> and also the principles and concepts listed below:<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A><P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A><P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>POJA</A><P>You need to tell your H the **whole entire** truth... and I'm about to say something else you won't like, but you need to (in my opinion) quit your job. Why? Because there can be NO CONTACT with the OP <B>at all, ever, ever again</B>. <P>That hindsight I spoke of??? I worked with the OP. Saw him every single day. It wouldn't have mattered if it was every once in awhile or not... here's why... <P>When I finally did leave the job (days before my divorce was final) he came to me, told me this: "I love you, always did love you, always will love you"... sounds good, eh? For 18 months after our affair (and I slept with him only once) he "carried a torch" or something... for 18 months I stayed away the best I could, tried to work on my marriage, and eventually did divorce, met someone else before the divorce was final, and royally messed up my life and most people I cared about, not to mention my wonderful job. I f****d up. I don't mean to be crass, so excuse the language (even with the stars ) but my point is... <P>You have a choice to make. I am one who only realized in looking back what I did wrong. I was in the fog for about six months, in a funk of depression/horror that I could do such a thing/embarrassment for about another six months, and then despair and lonliness as I watched my marriage go down the toilet. <P>Yes, I met someone else, but that has carried it's own pains and trials... even after the divorce. The grass is not greener, I just water it better.<P>I hope something I've said will help you...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited May 03, 2001).]

struggling:<P>That's one good reason to share the "horror" of our stories---to shock the people who are taking the first step down this path back to their senses. Unfortunately, we don't usually get people here in the early phases---those that we do are usually very successful.<P>If you're familiar with Harley's concept of a "lovebank", you'll know that anyone can make deposits (or withdrawals) in your lovebank. This guy has done so for you, but in the artificial situation of a workplace (and an affair). It's not real. You don't pay bills with him, scrub toilets, scurry around with kids... It's not a real relationship.<P>But that doesn't mean it's not dangerous. In some ways, it's more dangerous because of the fantasy. You need to learn some marriage skills, and how to protect your marriage (and lovebank) from these attacks.<P>Get to the MB counseling. Do it regardless of whether your husband participates or not (in fact, I'd make the first appointment for yourself). You'll be very glad that you did, and you'll have a happy ending too.

Thanks for all the replies. <P>I have definitely considered leaving my job, but I want to try to work this out and if I have to ... tell my boss (great guy and good friend) that I can't do anything that has to do with OM anymore and just get someone else in the office to handle it. <P>I also know that this is the WRONG way to handle this, but I DID tell husband about the first time we actually had an encounter and he does know about us continuing to talk, etc. and doesn't like it BUT I just don't know what telling him about the 2 other encounters can do ... isn't it almost selfish to dump 2 little kissing/touching encounters into his mind again? He already has the vision of the first time. Maybe eventually I will be able to tell him, but I know that I just can't yet. <P>I hate OM, I hate what he has done to me, to my family, to my marriage, I HATE myself even more for it and I HATE that he is on my voicemail when I get back from lunch (all the time I am checking to see if he called yet, he's called 2x times today) I hate thinking about the other people he has probably done this with/to ... Clarity hit it on the head, if he DID care about me, he would have stayed away like I asked him to a month ago, I tried to "scare" him by calling him crying one day about it, how I couldn't handle it, needed to look for another job, etc. and all that did was entice him a little more! HOW SICK.<P>Calling to set up appt with MB

I really feel you are are addicted to this other guy. You are totally being dishonest with yourself and your husband. You really need to tell your husband the truth. Without the truth and without breaking contact instantly by quitting your job today there is really no hope for your marriage. <P>You are a mature woman and not a child. You have a brain. You have a weakness. Your logic knows what to do but you want the best of both worlds. Don't make excuses. It's horrible what you are doing to your husband. <P>It's no use being sorry later. Think ahead. Ok, you have beautiful sex with this other guy in the future. He dumps you. What have you got now? Maybe he marries you are you happy with this. You are headed for destruction and you know it. <P>My wife had an affair that she could have prevented. She was told all the same stuff as you and ignored it. She thought she would be strong enough. <P>Predator men are stronger. You are not strong enough. By your notes you are not strong at all. Show your strength by quitting your job today and then explaining to your husband why you quit your job. He will be proud of you forever. Don't you want to look back on your life and be proud of something. <P>Why ruin your life over these physical and emotional urges? Why ruin your wonderful husband's life. Start telling him the story right now. Quit your job. Don't beat around the bush with nonsense talk. Sorry for being blunt but other ways don't seem to work for some people. <P>Many women don't acknowledge the danger until it is too late. Is five minutes of pleasure worth a lifetime of suffering? Come on, do what's right. You know what's right. You are playing with fire. You are willing to take a big risk. Do you have values, principles, morals??? You must have been taught right from wrong. <P>The best thing about your case is you did not "Do it yet." You are in a really lucky position right now. Tomorrow it can be too late. Addictions can be broken with a complete break with the other man. The other guy os a jerk. Get some self-esteem. Get some self respect. You deserve better than this other guy. Think about your family and not about your own pleasures. You will get much pleasure from being unselfish. What is the physical sex act anyway to you. What are you really missing from your husband? Do you really want to stay married? <P>Once you have the total affair you husband will say a lot worse things to you then I did. What kind of character is this man who has no concern for your family. Do you want to be married to a guy like that? What if he does the same to you? You wouldn't like it but you think nothing of the fact he is doing it to his wife and has no regard for your husband. Come on get out of your fog. Children know better than that what you are doing. <P>You are a mature grown woman with a brain. Think with your brain, don't think with something else. We have a brain for some reason. When a wife has an affair there is no other crime more serious than this. You will kill your husband's spirit. Does he deserve this. What has he done to you except good. Were you really ready for marriage? Are you ready to make a new commmittement to your husband tonight? Have you thought about divorce and being lonely again. Maybe the other guy will not dump his wife for you. Maybe your husband will dump you if you carry on with your affair. Yes already you are having an affair. <P>I think it is very very bad. Yet you can fix the situation right now. If you do not, then you have only yourself to blame. There is no excuse for doing what you are doing. There is none. Zero. I think you need a strong response and not a weak response. Your thinking now is very weak. I am sure you have many good qualities. Try to divert your attention to something else. Work on your marriage. Come on, snap out of it and see the light! What you are doing is wrong, wrong wrong! What you are not doing is wrong, wrong wrong! Tell your husband tonight. There is no excuse for not telling him. <P>Be brave. Honesty is ALWAYS best. You will be proud of yourself if you follow this advice. Why are you happy running behind someone's back. If you want to be with the other man then file for a divorce first. Then you can be with him all you want. Then you can be in heaven. <P>I am a nice person but when a wife does this and when she is warned before hand to not do it, it really is beyond my imagination to understand. It definitely makes me angry. I hope something in my note will make you angry enough to do what is right. Only you know what is right. Only you understand your heart. Treat your husband with respect. He deserves better than what you are giving him. Give him complete 100% honesty right now! <p>[This message has been edited by Rodger (edited May 03, 2001).]

Struggling-<P>I have just one question. You say <P>"I hate OM, I hate what he has done to me, to my family, to my marriage, I HATE myself even more for it and I HATE that he is on my voicemail when I get back from lunch (all the time I am checking to see if he called yet, he's called 2x times today) I hate thinking about the other people he has probably done this with/to ... Clarity hit it on the head, if he DID care about me, he would have stayed away like I asked him to a month ago, I tried to "scare" him by calling him crying one day about it, how I couldn't handle it, needed to look for another job, etc. and all that did was entice him a little more! HOW SICK.<P>Have you not been contacting him at all? Not seeing him at work and flirting or anything at all?<P>Your comments are a slap in the face to me-as the OW blamed my H 100% because she supposedly told him to leave her alone. Yet she let him in her house....................thought they could just be friends. She continued to persue him-but when she felt the guilt then she blamed him.<P>So please-look deep and give me some honest answers. I would appreciate it.<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Well, guess I have some answers to give. I don't know what I wanted from this board, I guess I just needed to get it all out this morning as the guilt ate me alive. I guess the beating is good, but unexpected. I am still in the stage where I want to have help ... but I still don't "believe" that I can do this. So with that I will answer your questions as best I can. <P>Rodger, wow, you had me bawling at my desk today, seeing what I am doing in writing, in someone else's writing that totally depicts the dispicable situation I am in, is really eye-opening. I will print out your message and keep it in my purse and bring it out daily to remind myself that I need to be strong and that I CAN do this.<P>To heartache .... I am sorry for the position you are in, or were in. LIke I said, this is all pretty new to me, I reached out for help just this morning and like everyone else, had to go on with my day like nothing was wrong. I didn't expect the bashing or Hard questions, but I put myself out there and will be honest with strangers. <P>I had/have the best intentions in mind. I NOW realize that I really didn't, I just pretended to think "i can handle this" we CAN just be friends, I don't WANT him physically, I just want him in my life, well now I realize what eVERYONE who knew about this was telling me, I CANT be friends with him. And like my husband reminds me, he isn't even REALLY a friend. But, in answer to your question, I would say that the pursuit has been 80/20, 80 him 20 me. BUT the problem has been whenever I make a strong move, i.e. tellhim to leave me alone, etc. he respects that and then I can't stand that... I want to hear from him but for all the reasons I think are ok, I just want to hear what is going on with him, just want to make sure he is ok. etc. Which is bull, I am grasping at straws, it is like someone said earlier, its like i want my cake and to eat it too. <P>So, what I need is a plan ... not bashing. When you are in this stage, adn I don't know what stage that is, I need to be told that I CAN and should do everything in my power to stay away, I need to know that I can, adn that other people have. I don't want to hear how rotten I am because I am NOT, I am human and have made a mistake ... and am reaching out for help. I am actually a great person with great ideals, morals, etc. and have maybe fallen off the cliff for a bit, but I am STILL hanging on, so please help me , don't just pass judgment because I am a WIFE doing this, somehow that doesn't feel right, because I am a woman I am more to blame for this? (Rodger maybe you can answer that since you said "when a wife does this" .... help me, don't punish someone so viciously on their first day. <P>I am a little wounded I know, and for the first time in a long time totally doubting myself, but I am here trying and knowing that I need to do the right thing. I need your help, not to be judged, I didn't think that is what this is about. (this board)