Dear NM,<P>I'm alarmed and shocked when I read this. I had no clue you meant it literally when you said 'beaten up' in your email. Now that you've sent me the link, I'm shocked and so saddened for you.<P>I haven't read the replies to your post. I believe for everyone's sake - yours, your girls, and your husbands - make him leave. Kick him out NM - if you don't it won't do him any good. I know you are confused because you love him so much. But that love is exclusive of what has transpired. So please do NOT allow love to factor into this. Don't let love weigh on your decision to make him leave. It can't. Insanity isn't love. <P>Yes, you did set yourself up by asking such a question. We've ALL done that! But I doubt many have recieved as response like you did. There is no excuse for his <BR>brutality. Don't take his guilt away from him by allowing him to stay. Don't share his guilt because no way in hell do you deserve it.<P><BR>You can't help your H right now by allowing him to stay. It won't help him. It won't tell him that you love him. It will send the wrong message NM. Please, make him leave.<P>God Bless,<P>K

nomoh If this were a play the script would read.<BR> abusier: "I'm sorry, I'll never do that again"<P>You don't believe this any more than the rest of us. When my niece was married to such a guy our family read everything we could about such relationships. The bottom line was that "they ALL say I'm sorry and that they will never do this again". He will show remorse untill you take him back, then it will happen all over again and each time ti will et worse.<BR>Your children will mirrior this behaivor because this is being shown to them as their role modle for handling conflict. You are concerned for your children. Show them that this is NOT OK by taking action!<BR>By the way, my niece left after a beating and went to a friends house. the friend took pictures of her and told her that she has two choices, come with her to the police or go home and get killed. She finally left, went into hiding untill her father could come and drive her home----far away.<BR>There are people here who care about you.<P>------------------<BR>Marry

NM,<P>I just read your last reply. Since your H has done this before, I believe by allowing him to stay will only continue the cycle of abuse. I'm sorry. I don't want to add to your confusion or make you feel badly. It's something I feel strongly about. Yes, he needs anger management but you should allow him back when and if he is at a point where he can manage his anger. You know you'll have our support and concern no matter what you decide to do. Please know that. <P>-K

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoMoh:<BR><B><BR>Last night I told him if he were to ever hit me again that I would file a restraining order against him and file for divorce. I was very serious and he said it would never happen again. I told him that he needed therapy for his anger and he agreed to think about it. He was very apologetic and said he would never ever hit me again. I am going to give him one more chance.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>NoMoh - as I stated earlier, you sound very much like a typical abused wife. There is a cycle to domestic violence, and for the next few weeks, you will be in what's called the Honeymoon Phase. Your husband says he is sorry and that it will never happen again, and you know what, he actually means it, but...........that doesn't last forever. The next phase is one of holding things in that bother him, you may do or say something that he doesn't like, but he will hold it in because of the guilt that he feels about the last abusive episode. After this phase will come the explosion, which in turn will be followed up by the Honeymoon period again. Your husband needs help, and sweeping this under the rug is not going to help. Forget about Anger Management, Domestic Violence is not about anger and not being able to control that anger. I'm sure your husband can control his anger on the job, out in the street, with friends, etc., this is about controlling his environment. If your husband is truly sorry and admits that he needs help, then Domestic Violence counseling is the way to go.<P>I am not going to call your husband names like some others have, he probably is a good guy, but he definitely has a problem that if not dealt with immediately, will only get worse. I have dealt with this professionally for years, and I can definitely see the pattern......from both of you.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by F A (edited May 09, 2001).]

NoMoh - If you don't mind me asking....What state do you reside in? The reason that I ask is because different states have different laws concerning domestic violence, and how they look and respond to it. Your state may or may not have programs that deal specifically with Domestic Violence........again Domestic Violence counseling and Anger Management counseling, while being somewhat similar, are in fact two different approaches.

NoMoh, I can't say any more to you than the others already have. I'm sitting here puzzled at your refusal to see what is going on. I respect your desire to save your marriage but we can't allow ourselves to be turned into punching bags in the effort to do so.<P>I'm afraid that you are using your love for this man as an excuse for his behavior. You are putting your need to keep him around before your own children's needs and doing them grave emotional harm. My father was an alcoholic. My mother never once took any action other than wringing her hands, crying and wondering what to do. She used her children as and excuse to ever do anything. Her need for my father was put before our needs. Because of that I grew up with very little respect for my mother.<P>You express concern for what it would do to them if they knew he had hit you. I don't believe that is your main concern. Your main concern is your husband. If your children live in the same home they know something is up. Children are intuitive as hell. They see things in our actions and behaviors. You are doing your children a graver injustice by allowing this to go on than you would be by being honest about the situation. Get honest with yourself NoMoh, for your children's sake, please do that. <P>I'm sorry to be harsh. I do understand your pain but because of the way I was raised when I hear of such things my concern is always for the children first. I wish you well, I hope it doesn't take too many more beatings before you begin to see it for what it really is. He is an abuser!!

NM,<P>I'm not gonna tell you to leave. You won't do that unless you're ready. But one day you will finally get tired of it and you'll go.<P>It's true that there is a honeymoon period after a violent episode. I lived thru too many to count. And I sincerely believed my X when he said he wouldn't do it again. And I don't think he intended to ever do it again. But it happened over and over. <P>Your children will grow up seeing you get hurt and it will affect them. My sons saw way too much. And if they didn't see it, they didn't question the new bruises I got. They knew how I got them. Girls can grow up to become involved in an abusive relationship and boys can grow up to be very aggressive. They think it's normal and OK. <P>My older son is angry and aggressive. Well, actually they all 3 are. I hope and pray that by not being around that type of behavior any longer, they won't turn out to be like their father. I'll have to wait and see.<P>Just consider all of the info you've been given. It could save your life and the lives of your children.<P>Take care,<BR>Mitzi <BR>

Cathy47, Mitzi and F A- I really do appreciate all of the advice given here. Cathy, you really asked some difficult questions that I believe is at the heart of this issue. Here is an excerpt of an email I just wrote to a friend that will give you a good frame of reference as to my thougt processes:<P>"I think H is mad at me for him having an affair. Somehow this is all my fault. If I were a more loving wife, if I took more of an interest in our sex life none of this would have happened. His fall from grace is because of my actions.<BR> <BR>He is not ready yet to take full responsibility for what he has done. No matter what my faults were in the marriage he chose to have an affair. He is an adult and he made that decision all by himself without thinking of or consulting me.<BR> <BR>Yes it hurt. It still hurt. It will hurt me for a very long time. I think I love him too much. That I have put up with too much. Is it time for him to lose me? Would he then understand all the hell he has unleashed in our life? Why am I still struggling with saving this marriage when he has had an affair, he has lied to me, beaten me up, abandoned his wife and children. Do I think so low of myself that I will tolerate whatever he dishes out to keep him at home. A poster called Cathy47 just posted and she has brought up some serious points. Am I so in love with my H that I will sacrifice the children and make them the excuse to hold on to this marriage. What is wrong with me? I am a college educated professional with a great job and career, lots of friends and a family that will support me if I chose to leave him. <BR> <BR>Why am I tolerating this from a selfish,weak man who has to prove his manhood by having an affair with another woman, then has the gall to tell me she is better than me, and on top of all of that is beating me whenever I have the temerity to cry in pain and humiliation."<P>I am questioning my motives here. I know firsthand the destructiveness of an abusive relationship. My mother lived it for 23 years.<P>F A, I live in Atlanta, Ga. I will call the Women's shelters to get some literature on this issue. May God bless each and everyone of you and I do thank you for your concern.<P>N<BR>

A large % of children who live with abuse in there household, mirror those actions as adults. Your mother was abused by your father. And no matter how you try to convince yourself that your situation is different, IT IS NOT. Your father beat your mother and your husband will continue to beat you if you don't make some changes and quick. Your mother probably tried to keep the abuse from you as a child and it didn't work....it won't work for your kids either and you will therefore help to continue the cycle of abuse by making it appear to be BEARABLE because "YOU LOVE HIM".

Yours is perhaps the saddest story I have heard here.<P>The saddest part is that you have become your Mother, just as I have become my Father.<P>It is inevitable that this happens. I have come from a truly hellish home. I learned how to avoid abusing being abused. Yet, here I am. I married a girl just like dear old Mom. How sad. You too.<P>My dear, please help your children break the cycle. Even with all my insight, I failed. If I had had either a Mother or a Father worth a d@^^n, then they could have been there to help me pick a spouse.<P>Be there for your children. Once the vows are broken and thrown away, you must think of the children.<P>It stops with you, now.<P>My most sincere prayers. May the Holy spirit pick you up and carry you where you need to be. <P>Love and Sympathy,<BR>Invictus

NoMOh,<P>I'm glad I gave you food for thought. I live in Southeast Alabama, I'm only about 3 1/2 hours from Atlanta. Drop me an email at tolemakr@aol.com and let's get to know each other better ok? Who knows a week end trip might be what you and the kids need. Time away to think and put things into perspective.<P>Your husband is not going to take responsibility for his actions until he is forced to. Until you figure out why you are so willing to take on his burden you are going to continue to do so. Start focusing on yourself and understanding why and stop focusing on the possibility of losing him. Right now he is weak, he is that way because you are allowing him to be that way. There are times that change has to be forced. Don't you think it is time for a change in both of you? I wish you well and offer any support you might need. You are in my prayers<BR>Cathy

Dear NoMoh, is your mother still alive? How would she feel to know that you are going through the same thing she did? I think it's no coincidence that you are reliving her experience. And I think the chances are greater that your daughters(s) will relive the experience the longer you stay in this situation. Look at their faces and imagine them looking in the mirror to examine their own bruises and bumps and asking themselves how they let this happen. I can't tell you what to do but you need to see the possible realities that you might be helping to create.

(((NoMoh))):<P>You are a good woman. You have led a good life and you have good children and a good career. <P>The situation with your husband is <B>not</B> your fault.<P>You loved your husband enough to have children with him and make a home with him. If he had issues with your marriage it was his responsibility to bring those issues to your attention, <B>not</B> to take matters into his own hands and have an affair. <B>And never, EVER to hurt you.</B><P>You ask why you're letting things go on.... I don't know why; I am not you. But I have some guesses...<P>It is hard to look at your reflection in the mirror and say, "My marriage is not working." But physical abuse cannot be tolerated, <B>not even just this once</B>. You are strong. You made it out of the home you grew up in. You know that your children don't want to grow up in that home. Help your husband get the help he needs, but make sure your children get the lives they need.<P><B>You matter. A lot. </B><P>It's also hard to break up a family. One is bombarded by media reports on the evils of single parent homes. But remember, even if you leave tonight that does not mean you have left forever. It means you are wise enough to know that your children need a stable home. And if your husband can be part of that, great. <B>Last night he proved that, at least for now, he is NOT part of that stable home.</B> <P>This is hard. But you are strong. <BR>...Look at where you are now.<BR>....Look at who you are.<BR>.....Look at whom you want your children to become.<P>See someone today. Document these wounds.<P>What if it happens again three years from now? Will you feel any better for not telling someone about today?<P>There is no shame in correcting an inappropriate action.<P><B>No Shame.</B><P>You can't heal yourself when you're afraid of angering him.<P>Hang in there. We care. <P>Blessings to you.<BR>--HBC

Ava, HBC,<P>Thanks for your input. I am seriously thinking over everyone's advice. I am feeling better today physically but not emotionally. My H was very much on the defensive yesterday and I am trying my best to understand this man. He claims he loves me yet he hurts me so easily with words and sometimes his fist. <P>Just wanted everyone to know I am still here. I cannot tell you how much this board meant to me all last year and throughout this year. The stories are heartbreaking but also heartwarming. I can feel the pain and the joy from all of you out there and I do very much empathize with everyone's predicament.<P>I am still in Plan A mode with H and I am trying to get over the pain of his very blunt statement to me on Monday night. My self esteem is very low right now but not for long. I will overcome this with or without him. I decided I will not let his words hurt me anymore. He is still in the fog and the alien speak is to be ignored but not the physical abuse.<P>NoMoh

Greetings, NoMoh!<P>I am glad you are doing a bit better today physically. Emotions are difficult to heal. I think you are doing a great job.<P>You have very difficult decisions to make. Trust your insticts. You know in your heart what you need to do.<P><B>Leaving now is not failure.</B> It doesn't mean that you would be gone forever. It means that you acknowledge that your H has issues that need to be addressed before your marriage can go on. Leaving him is a way to protect yourself, your children, and your marriage. We all try to teach our children how to control their tempers; your husband needs to re-learn those lessons. He needs to remember that his actions have consequences.<P>Remember this, too: <B>Even if "the worst" happens, and your marriage ends in divorce that does NOT mean that you are a failure.</B> I know that I sit where I am and wonder how someone as smart as myself could be in the position I'm in, and I can only imagine that you might be doing the same thing. It's okay. You misjudged what he would do. How many times do you misjudge something at work? When it happens there you just take corrective action, ask for help if you need it, and move on. That's what you have to do here, too.<P>You are strong. You will be okay.<P>Blessings.<BR>--HBC

NoMoh,<P>How are you today?<P>Thinking of you.<BR>--HBC

I am fine HBC. Thanks for asking. I am feeling a lot better today and I have approached a friend who has expertise in relationships to help me with this situation. <P>My H is back to acting as if nothing happened as his usual mode of handling difficult situations. I am also acting "as if". I have thought of exacting revenge though by rubbing poison oak on his towel or pillow case . He would just think he caught it from outside and never suspect me. I can be quite devious if provoked LOL.<P>N<P><p>[This message has been edited by NoMoh (edited May 11, 2001).]

Why do you tolerate it?<P>Good question! Phil McGraw's book "life strategies" was a real eye opener for me.<P>He says we TEACH others how to treat us. This isn't to say it's your fault, not at all. But it does say that he can't treat you this way UNLESS YOU LET HIM. Children often have no choices, but you are an adult, a smart lady and you do have many choices.<P>To believe he will never do it again just because he says so is wishful thinking.<P>Do you love him too much, or are you afraid to face life without him? I was. But when I got past that I learned I was much stronger than I thought I was. Loving him sometimes means tough love: requiring a real change in him - maybe he needs to face the idea of losing you if he doesn't change himself, and only he can...

I would like to offer this thread to read......<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002911.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002911.html</A> <P>May this help you find some peace of mind and encouragement to make a change.<P>(((((HUGS)))))<P>Ragamuffin

NoMoh,<P>I am glad you are doing a bit better. That is very creative coping. <P>Happy Mothers Day!<P>Take good care of yourself. <P>All the best.<BR>--HBC