Hi C1,<P>How long did I need to 'play the game'. As I mentioned as long as it took to get out of that dark room. Please understand, I don't advocate playing games. However, these games were not going to be voluntarily stopped by H. OW would see to that. <P>The point is that I had to get out of the dark. I did. H & OW needed to know they did not hold all the cards (so to speak). I made sure they knew enough. I found out enough. The gross and gory details were not necesary. In my case, H used to be an honest man and as much as OW was trying to get him to lie to me (by telling him I was a lie and a cheat), it did not work. H knew deep down in his heart that I was being honest with him. <P>When I withheld info from him (I used to tell him everything), he wanted to make me feel like I was lying yet he was at the same time deliberating lying to me (alibis and all - got that in writing) during his A. So while I was not stooping to his level, I did not feel the need to share all my thoughts and feelings with H about what I was finding out. <P>I checked up on H since H was not being honest with me. H always knew that the truth has it's way of making itself known. H said he wanted to get caught so that he did not have to continue living a lie. Ok, he's caught now what? Well that piece had to wait a while because by this point, OW had helped H harden his heart and that is where his real fight was. <P>For me it lasted 5 months. Now H is home and working on recovery. You must understand that in our case there is an unrelenting OW. Calls every week and daily leaves clicks on our voicemail. This is hampering the recovery but we are working through it. <P>So while I do understand your position, your situation is a bit different than mind and I respect your decision. I do not mean to impose my opinion on others, it was just what I felt I needed to do. <P>L.

My H just got a cell phone and pager for his job. The only thing I can do is make damn sure that his home life is as nice as I can make it. Other than that, it's up to him.<P>But if he strays again, I'll kick his *ss.

Hey, I agree with JimB, if they're going to do it they will find a way to conceal it from us. Remember secret mailboxes at the P.O. and phones at the office. It's the same thing only easier to access.<P>The problem is not with the method but with the reason...I don't believe you can stop anyone from doing anything they really want to do...so until they want to stop doing what they're doing there is nothing that anyone can do to make them. Doesn't make it any easier to deal with though.<BR>There is still some underlying need that keeps them tied to these activities. Perhaps our time would be better spent trying to find out what is missing in their lives rather then snooping on them. I don't know.... <P><BR>Faye <BR>

I somewhat agree with orchid here. I don't advocate snooping on an ongoing basis - that *is* psychotic! However, when you know something is wrong and you ask point blank, "Are you seeing anyone," and the WS continues to deny, deny, deny and yet YOU KNOW IT'S GOING ON, the human psyche compels us to do strange things. I would not have known about H's EMR had I not snooped. I would not have been armed with the information and had a choice whether to stay or go. There is no way I could have accepted our marriage "as was" without knowing the full extent of the truth - whatever that really is.<P>There are certain people who are just good at hiding things. My H used to tell me that I kept things from him. Well, that's not true. He could have had full access to any part of my life, if he'd asked me. I would not have said 'no.' And he did snoop in my email first, I know that for a fact. I found some email that he'd downloaded from my computer - I was emailing a gal pal of mine and I was talking about a guy I went out with for a little while years ago, wondering what he was like and what was going on in his life. Didn't mean that I wanted to jump his bones, lol!<P>Not that I care that he did this - but why didn't he just ask me instead of assuming that this was something that I was trying to "hide?" Have you ever noticed that people with a lot to hide assume that you are hiding things, too?<P>belld

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by belldandy:<BR><B>Have you ever noticed that people with a lot to hide assume that you are hiding things, too?<P>belld</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>and the people that cheat accuse you of cheating, etc. I'd say it's G*U*I*L*T coming out, how about you? <P>Karen<BR>

Orchid,, I agree you do need to know what you are up against and sometimes when you ask them point blank what is going on and they do not tell the truth there is nothing wrong with finding out for sure so that you can protect yourself... I guess I am a bit gun shy when I think about all the ways that I found out stuff and how I got better results once I had enough info to just file sounds wicked but I was sooooooooooo tired and I just didnt see any other way to get the mess to stop..<BR>I just want to get the message across that once you have the info you can keep on digging for years or you need to decide how much is enough? playing the game for years was nothing but torture for me and basically I had as much information the first year as I had years later... <BR>when they insist on keeping you out of their "privacy" then they are hidding and it can go on for ever.....LOL..<BR>I kinda think the saying "you dont know what good you have until you see it lost" works better for these folks..<BR>take care all<BR>C1