Humblefish:<BR>I too am the WS...it is a difficult road and I now live with so many regrets. <P>Sadly...this affair has been such a wake-up call to me. You know..if you want to loose ten pounds the desire alone is not enough to shed that weight - you have to have a plan. Exercise, diet, etc and stick to it. Recovery from this affair has been a bit like that and Dr. Harley's books which recommend "extra-ordinary precautionary measures". I have found this to be true.<P>I have found that part of my recovery from the OM has been to stick to no-communication (as best as possible as we still work together) and keep everything to myself. What I did over the weekend, if I am sick, if I am worried - I cannot express any emotion. <P>I will gladly be open about questions from others here...I have been a recluse for the past month or two because some things I just couldnt talk about still. But, I would share the hurt- extreme guilt - from this side of the fence as well.<P>many hugs,<BR>Scuba<P><BR>

HF:<P>I, too have been a WS (currently recovering our relationship) ... and I have been a BS in the past. So I do see both sides of the fence (as long as I don't straddle it).<P>We can get caught up in wrongful behavior for many reasons; humans being what they are, we find ways to justify them. We begin to live, as you see it expressed so often here, in a fog.<P>I know it was freudian, a typo, but in one of your replies you said he "peruse me." (I know you meant pursued. I think <smile> ) ... but it is apt enough ... he deliberately initiated this with a set goal in mind ... having you.<P>He has lied to his W, he has lied to you, and worst of all he is hiding in his own lie (the aforementioned fog). Even after the D-Day, he remains in his fog. For your long-term emotional well-being, don't continue to blow smoke for him to hide behind.<P>Read Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair if you have not already. Then cut yourself off from him. TOTALLY. Change phone numbers ... Dr. Harley (although he cited the WS/BS option) even suggests just outright moving if one must.<P>A little strength here will go a long way.<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL<BR>

Hi Humble (and hello to Scuba, too).<P>I have found your thread to be one of the most insightful ones I have come across. Thanks for your candid response.<P>My story involves my fiance and a female friend whom I believe has betrayed me on some level. This board has helped me be honest with my BF and work toward marriage.<P>I suspect that my "friend" also feels remorse about pursuing my fiance. It hurt me to overhear her joke about it...<P>I have discussed the issue with my fiance, but I still believe there are some truths hidden from me...my feeling is these will come out. I'm not sure what to do with my friend.<P>Could she have made a "mistake", and regret her actions? Or am I giving her too much credit, and I should be watching her like a hawk?<P>I welcome any thoughts.<P>Robyn

Robyn:<P>Like a hawk. But if you want to give her SOME benefit of the doubt, only use one eye.<P>(My wife is chiming in from the other room: she's no friend ... NO CONTACT! issue ... hmmm ... my wife [zorweb] is very insightful in the wiles of femme fatales ... so go with that.)<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL

Hi SeenTheLight<P>Well in a way of course we justify our behavior. If we did not we would be a bunch of sociopats all of us (And I’m not at least i hope I’m not ). I knew I was doing something wrong but the emotions took the better of me - so of course I tried to justify myself and so did he. Right or wrong that is how we kept it going.<P>Robyn<P>”Could she have made a "mistake", and regret her actions? Or am I giving her too much credit, and I should be<BR>watching her like a hawk?”<P>I agree with SeenTheLight - only with one eye. - I don’t know any of you so I can not really tell you what I think. My best advice is trust your ”gut feeling” - It seldom betrays you.<P>You said ...” My story involves my fiance and a female friend whom I believe has betrayed me on some level..” - What level? - Sorry but I don’t really understand what has happened (or not happened for that matter).<P>Scuba2<P>Well I have had the ”Involuntary diet” aswell. I sometimes joke around and say at least I’m thin now - not that I even needed a diet...HaHa...OK bad joke. I for one believe (or want to believe) that people that get caught up in this EMA’s are not bad persons - just a bit wakko I guess. Just Couldn’t let the ”fantasy” remain a fantasy - but went over the line. Most of us never thought about the consequences and when they came we tried to justify our behavior - and boy are we good at justifying - at least I am. <BR>

Hi Humble:<P>I was vague with regard to my friend and fiance on purpose...because I myself don't know exactly what happened yet. MY BF and I are in the process of talking generally and specifically about it, over time, and in accordance with MB concepts. <BR>I seriously doubt it was a PA. What I have gathered so far points to her initiating a kiss, possibly leading to a little more. My BF showed no further sign of interest in her; she however continued to make many ovations, innuendoes, etc. After we got engaged, she backed off this wacko behaviour for the most part. It has been argued here that, since we were not engaged at the time (and are yet to be married), she is not technically an OW. Have never been through anything like this before. I really want to clear up this mystery before we marry, because we have done so well with honesty otherwise. We have both been very forthcoming about intimacy issues, other people, etc. <BR>Anyway...babbling.....<P>Robyn

Humble, I don't want to sound harsh, as I really do care and pray that things go well for you. <P>Please do what is right, what is good, what is just.... for you. Doing what is right will give you such peace, Humble. Reading your posts, I got the feeling that your MM has done this before..... I don't know, I just get that feeling. Neither you, nor his wife, deserves to be treated the way he is treating both of you. <P>The Word is quite clear on the consequences of adultery:<BR>Heb 13:4 - <B>Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.</B> (Note that the Word of God says, WILL judge, not might, nor maybe....) <P>Please, Humble, read 1 Corinthians 6:9 - 10..... You're being deceived. Humble, I will keep you in my prayers. Please know that God loves you VERY VERY much no matter what you've done in the past. Let Him give you the strength to remove yourself from this trying situation. "His Strength is Perfect".<P>God bless,<BR>AW<BR><I>'But He knows the way that I take; when He has tested me, I shall come forth as gold." - Job 23:10</I>

Hi Humble Fish,<P>I am a WS who is still is very much in love with OW.I would like you to read my thread in the divorcing/divorced forum titled 'what if u don't love your spouse anymore', it will tell you my story and how i feel for the OW.<P>Its been 4 months since i had any contact with her but the feelings i have for her is just the same. This feeling is jeopardizing my reconciliation with wife, something which i don't think i want. Don't ask me why i am doing this then cause i don't kn ow. Out of GUILT i think, maybe just to prove to her this marriage is dead. She is convinced i still love her although i have told her more than once that i don't. Maybe this pain and unhappiness i am feeling is retribution for the mess i got myself into so i endure it.<P>In the case of your MM i don't know whats the story. But i love OW enough to let go of her because i can't let her go through with the pain. I have told her i have promised to come back for her, which according to most of the people in this board is wrong to my attempt in reconciling, infact i agree with them too. I run the risk of her falling in love with someone else and it scares me. It's only a matter of time other people see what i see in her. In fact i know there are people waiting inline for her already. <P>She never knew i was married. I worked aborad my family was not with me. I told her when it was too late after close to a year. How can i tell her, she will run away. She probably doesn't even know just how much i love her.<P>And this 'fog' term that oftenly used, some maybe fog but some are not. I agree with you. I read ur other post. Everyone here is trying to convince me that what i am feeling is limerance, unreal. It's hard to let the other person go, and in my heart i don't want to. Did your MM ever tell you he will divorce his wife? Anyway reading ur post i would understand how my OW feels. I don't even like calling her OW. Well there you go.<P>Although i think i would be happy to think of my GF being happy with someone else, it will rip my heart out because its not me. Why ur MM is doing the things he does i don't know? Perhaps he doesn't want to let go. TO increase my chances with my GF i have to let go now. I am rambling. <P>Take care.<BR>

pain:<P>I think it is possible to be with someone, and discover that person is not right for you. It has happened to me in the past. I have not read your entire story, but I ask you to think about why you remain with someone you do not love. You seem to have given this alot of consideration. If I am right, and you are married to the wrong person, perhaps you should not give your W. false hope. She will be living with alot of pain as long as you contine to do so.<P>Just thoughts.<P>Robyn