Well, thank you Zorweb--all of your posts, and your husband's, have made me feel a lot better (I forgot to thank him for his post to me.)<P>I tore Miss Kitty up, and I was pretty ashamed of that now. I was really mean. Miss Kitty is now supposedly divorced from her husband and is with someone new, according to my husband, who I guess inquired after her a few months ago. She got tired of the crap, too. <P>I have tried to get in touch with Pamela and the Australian to no avail. I think Pamela was someone he met on-line through a swinger club website. The Aussie was someone he met on-line, too. Cybersex chat. She has a billion e-mail addresses that are shut down now--I guess she really needed the company. I called the Lisa chick but didn't have the nerve to talk to her, so I hung up. I was tired of it. The oriental woman was most likely a prostitute of some kind. These are people from all over the world, it is unlikely that any of them would really care about sharing a guy in common, anyways. It's all about the sex for most except for Miss Kitty<P>This was all last year. After finding out about all of these encounters, I went home to the states. <P>Now, I am pretty sure that the activities are mostly kept to chat and visual contact on-line, so he won't be getting into trouble. I mean, you can't get into trouble for looking at a consenting adult and talking dirty to people, now can you? Lots o' folks do it, I guess, now a days. However, I don't like it and I want it to stop. He just plain says he doesn't do it, but I know he does. I found a whole bunch o stuff when I first got here--he denied it's existance to my face minutes after I saw it.<P>You are right. I am the Queen dammit!! Too bad I can't set a few laws around here. The King is out of hand and I really don't want to see him get bit on the butt one of these days. I mean, he's my husband--I really loved him more than anything before all of this stuff started. Guess I still do, but it's more out of keeping a promise now.<P>I talked to a counselor, too. The counselor was not pro-marriage and he just shook his head as I talked. He told me that he did not see much hope in the relationship and that I have two choices A) stay with my husband and keep my mouth shut B) leave again. I was so depressed after going to this counselor.<P>This goes back to the options that JAL is talking about. We have our choices presented to us and we get all upset when there are none to our liking, is the idea. Maybe she is right--at this point in our relationship, my husband really doesn't care about how I feel. Maybe someday he will, though. This is the part that stinks--I have to wait around to figure this out.<P>It would be evident by now to an OW that this situation is pure hell--the limbo--and anyone with a conscience would remedy this knowing how it is for the BS.<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited June 04, 2001).]

Bernzini,<P>I am glad that my H and I have been able to be of some help. I think being support to others is part of our healing process. Especially since you and others here have given us so very much. Thanks<P><BR>All of this internet stuff is new in our society so it we, as a society, are not sure what the protocols are. However, the more I look into it, the more I realize that it is not without penalty. It is not a playground in which a person can do anything to anyone they want with impunity.<P>From my own experience and from others I have spoken to, many of the people who maintain these online relationships save a copy of every online chat and email they have.<P>I know that even in my case, I have almost every email and chat I've ever had with my husband. They are, for the most part, the most beautiful "love letters". Why would I not keep such a legacy. There are ofcourse the very tortured ones from the weeks immediately after I found out about his affairs. And those too have great importance to me.<P>So you can be sure that somewhere, someone has everything. This may very well include plenty of pictures and videos.<P>I know of one lady whose husband had such affairs. Well, OW2 found out about OW3. She sent intimate photos and emails t OW3. Then OW3 sent them on to his wife and employer. (I think I have the OW streight, but you get the idea) He lost his job and of course his marriage has been hurt very badly.<P>I hate to be a pesimist but given Murphy's Law, I would expect the worse to happen. This will someday blow up in your H's face. His chain of command will not take it lightly.<P>This is behavior unbecoming of an officer.<P>I have more I'd like to say but really do need to get back to work. So will check back later.<P>Hey, we are really getting off the point of this thread. If you want email me at zorweb@hotmail.com.<P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

A LOT to read here! I will definitely try and respond but time does not allow me to at this point. At the very least, my post seems to have grown alot of legs that have nothing to do with me or my initial post, and that is good.<P>I just wanted to quickly add that I think my situation might be different if I was a person who wanted to marry. But, remember, I am not pressuring him to marry me. In fact, he has brought it up (in general terms, such as when and how) and I have told him that any such decision must be deferred for a minimum of four years. I don't see this at all as a lack of committment to me. I don't need to go through a legal marriage ceremony to feel that committment. I realize that this is far afield from how most feel here and, since our minds will never meet on this issue, discussion of it is probably futile, but it's how I feel. Likewise, the heart and soul of a marriage, I feel, is not in the legal ceremony or dissolution but in the living committment and daily recommittment to each other. Again, there is, I am sure, little use in discussion because I am sure this also falls afield, and that's OK. Different people, different views. <P>I do have to say that my partner has not in over three years ever given his W any mixed signals. Prior to that he did struggle with doing the "right" thing vs. being fulfilled. And, again, I know that the views on that subject differ as well. But, in the past three plus years, he has never said anything but that he is not coming back. He has told her that if I were to dump him for my personal trainer tomorrow, he would still never be back. He is permanently gone. But, he has also told her that he will not force divorce on her before she is ready. I read many, many posts from people trying to figure out how to stall a divorce they are not ready for. Here you have a person who is at least allowing her to have some determination in the timeline. One other thing regarding committment. He has made certain legal committments to me and for me that cannot be undone even if he should never divorce. When one is both a private and corporate entity, these things can be done. Be assured that top flight attornies were used. And, my own brother was involved in the review along with his attornies. The issues do not benefit me now, but should he die before we can marry, he wants to make sure that live the way he wants me to forever and also to ensure that my children whom he loves as stepchildren could go to any college they want. No one forced him to do this. I certainly didn't suggest it. In fact, he did it all prior to even telling me about it. He did it out of love and committment to myself and my childrenIf and when we marry, it will be null and void. Financially, I'd no doubt be better if he died without us ever marrying then if we do! <P>I guess we could all pick apart is motivations forever, but I live this life (as do all the others here with their lives) and so little can be gleaned just from posts, certainly not enough to make blanket statements (he does "this" for "that reason" i.e.). For this reason, I try to avoid them (not always successfully, but I do try).<P>My time is limited over the next several days, so I may respond only to one post at a time, but where a question was asked, I will respond.<P>JAL