Long story short--my H is ending his job on Friday, where OW works. He has been telling me over and over that once he leaves, they are through.<P>I found a card in his bag tonight---said something to the effect of---I can't wait until Monday, when we can start our forever together. (OW gave to H) <P>Is he lying to me, is he lying to her, what the he** is going on?????<P>Do I confront him on it tonight? <P>WHAT DO I DO???? I need some really fast help, here!!

I 'spose you shouldn't say anything... but I would. I know it would be a huge LB, but I wouldn't be able to contain myself...<P>How did you happen to see this card, and why was it somewhere where you could see it? I bet you wondered about that too,eh?<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

I have to agree with Nyneve. The technical MB answer might be to not say anything, but given the circumstances, where he says they are through as of Friday, this is just too weird.<P>As Nyneve said, LB if you ask about it, but I'd have a hard time not doing so.<P>Even if it is an LB, I can't see it totally changing whatever will ultimately happen between you.<P>Good luck on this one.

Oh wow. Damn, damn, damn. I know I'm too late.<P>Two possibilities. He's either lying to you or to her. I agree with confronting him in as non-LBing way as possible. You and your kids deserve to know his intentions - even if he's not sure, which I believe is the case.<P>You're in my thoughts, J.<P>Dave

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick37:<BR><B><BR>Even if it is an LB, I can't see it totally changing whatever will ultimately happen between you.<P>Good luck on this one.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear Hurtinginil,<BR>I have to agree with the others here. Rick is right: LB or not, I doubt it would change things that much. <P>I found a receipt in my husband's pocket that had HER name on it (it was a PO Box receipt) and I kept quiet about it. This was about three months after D-day and after many, many fights that would last all night long. My H STILL swears to this day that there was nothing going on between them, and we are into Plan A about two months now. Although things appear to be working out for us, that receipt is a block for me. No matter what, every time I look at him, or hear him talk, I think, "Liar!" It feels so dishonest to me, this knowing what I know and appearing to accept what he tells me. <P>Actually, if you believe Dr. H's lovebank ideology, every time my H opens his mouth to me, it's like he is making a withdrawl from MY lovebank account. So, how is that a help?? This receipt proves he had direct contact with her (and she is a married woman, by the way), procuring something for her that denotes her wanting to be sneaky (why didn't she purchase her own PO box herself, and why would she need one in the first place?) and I would have to ask WHY. Why did MY husband do this little favor for her?? It just smells rotten to me and always will, but I missed my chance and if I bring it up now, it would only make me look bad (hey..I snooped in his stuff, and right now we are working together on being "honest"). The time to strike is when the iron is hot, not months later.<P>With a change in job, your H's actions directly affects you and your kids. I would definitely mention this card to him because if you don't do it now, one of these days it will just explode out of you, anyway, and it won't have the same impact or meaning. You certainly do have a right to know what his intentions are, LB or not. You'll get past it and get more chances to make amends but if you wait too long, the situation will only get messier.<P>Good luck to you and please keep us posted!<P>Hugs and prayers,<BR>Winny<P><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited June 07, 2001).]

I had a very similar experience. Mere days after H told me the A was over, I "innocently" found e-mails in which H asked if OW had figured out how to join H on a business trip that was scheduled for the next week. I have never felt such rage. I was torn as to whether to "catch" them redhanded or to confront H with my discovery. <P>I realized I couldn't wait a week, and decided to strike at the moment. I confronted H about two hours after my discovery. I told him that I had inadvertantly found them while checking the OUT box for a piece of misdirected mail. Initially, H limited the conversation to the fact that I had invaded his privacy, but by being direct, he backed down and realized how incredibly damning what he wrote was to him.<P>It didn't end the A (but it is now over) then, but it did require him to fess up with some explanation that was honest. The card you found is really not susceptible to twisted explanations. You have seen hard proof. If you can get your hands on that card again, you may have the basis for confrontation. If the card has disappeared, then it's your word against his--and there's not much you can do if he lies about it.<P>You must be very careful when you speak to him to keep it factual and not hurtful-- no matter how angry you are. Keep yourself in check if you decide to confront. <P>You have an opportunity (like the one I had) to allow him to be honest with you. My H was (for the first time in months). Did it make me feel better to know the A was still going on? No. Did I feel a little better that he had, at least was honest with me about it once confronted? Yes.<P>Weigh the options for yourself and your circumstances. Pray for strength and guidance. My prayer during these anxiety-ridden times was, "Oh please, God, don't let me say anything stupid." It worked. Take deep cleansing breaths--pray and think before you speak.<P>Keep us posted.<P>The Hat.

My observation is that whenever some evidence comes up that a WS is lying, and the question comes up "is s/he lying to the BS or to the OP?", the sad truth is that it is usually the BS who is being lied to... Sorry... <P>AGG

I think if you keep your question to the point and factual, you will get a better response. <P>"I saw some correspondence implying that the two of you would be starting your forever together on Monday. What exactly does that mean?"<P>Has there been a non ctantact letter? Do you know if he has any particular plans on Monday?<P>Let us know.<BR>cleo

An update.....<P>After H got home last night, I very calmly, non confrontationally asked him what his true intentions for next week were. Instant defensiveness. I didn't even have to mention the letter that I'd found, it was mayhem already. When he gets defensive, there is absolutely no reasoning with him, and he is nasty and mean. Everything is worthless and there is no reason to continue our marriage. We pretty much went at it for the entire evening.<P>This morning as he left for work, I asked for a chance to prove how our marriage could be better once he's at his new job and away from OW. His response---"send me an email and tell me what's going to change". OK, fine. Even though it's bullsh**, I spent the entire morning composing and email pouring my heart out to him and telling him how our marriage can be. <P>I don't really know what to do next. Since it's his last day at his current job on Friday, he's taking next week off before starting his new job. He decided that we should take the kids away for the weekend, then meet my parents so they can take the kids for the rest of the week. The plan is to get some things done around the house. It was all his idea. Now I have to wonder if it was all so that the kids won't be around next week and he can leave without having them see him do it.<P>I'm really at a loss right now.....<P>Sheryl---the card was in his briefcase. It is a HUGE LB that I snoop, so to tell him I found the card would probably be the last straw. Funny thing is, because it's his last day tomorrow, he didn't take his bag today, so the bag, along with the card, is sitting right next to our bed.....<P>Rick---I don't know. It just seems like it could be the end. It's so hard to tell what will push them over the edge....<P>Dave---thanks for your support.....as always, I value your friendship.....<P>Winny---yes, I know that the longer I wait, that I will not be able to use the example as pure evidence. However, with the situation right now, I just think it may push him over the edge. I don't know.....<P>The Hat---The card is about 20 feet from me, in his bag, right now. I have all the hard proof I need. However, if I confront him with it, it will be the biggest LB possible. My H simply flips when I snoop through his stuff. Will he be honest? Probably not. He would probably say something like "I've told you that I'm not breaking things with her until I'm gone from there. I am afraid that she'll go crazy and let something slip". Yes, he's actually said this to me. He's her supervisor, so if she does, there could be big trouble. Honesty is a huge, huge, issue for me right now.....<P>AGG---I know. That's what scares me so much.....<P>Cleo---Yes, there was a no contact letter in February, but obviously, that didn't have any impact. Plans for Monday? We're getting home from our weekend away with the kids, and then dropping them off at my parents for the rest of the week. He came up with the idea so we could do some painting. I'm really wondering if the real plan is to move out while the kids are gone---much easier than having 3 sets of devastated eyes looking at you as you drive away....

Dear Hat,<BR>Oh, how I wish I had seen and read your wise words so many months ago!!! You said it so much better than I did, Hat. YES...this is a good opportunity for Hurting's H to be honest with her. I wish I had known of this site and Dr. Harley back then, but I didn't. <P>Now, I have to do messy clean up work, and I do mean messy. So many mistakes were made along the way (mine as well as his) that I don't know if we'll ever truly get back together.<P>But, I like what you wrote very much. The part about taking a deep cleasning breath first is excellent, too. Once words are said in anger, they can never be taken back. <P>I'm telling ya...I have to keep on reading things on this site! <P>Hugs and best wishes to all,<BR>Winny

h,<P>Here's an idea: Do you work? If so, take next week off. Plan a vacation with your H. A nearby resort, a camping trip, anything that will get the two of you alone. Can you stay an extra couple of days with your parents? <P>I think that your H's reaction to such a plan for a "mini-vacation" for you both will tell the tale. <P>I'm praying for you, hon. I'm so sorry. I wish I were an exterminator and could eradicate the world from predatory OP sometimes! His OW sounds like a manipulative *******.<P>belld

Deep cleansing breath----reminds me of having babies and labor. I couldn't tolerate the pain, so I had epidurals.<P>When will they make a drug to numb this pain????

bell, no I don't work. The idea for next week (all H's, BTW) was to have the kids go to grandmas house so that we could spend the week painting and doing some things at home. We'll be alone all week, so it will basically be like a vacation.<P>yes, the OW is a *****. Cling on is a good description. She just won't go away..... She is single, and really has no motivation to break off the relationship with H. If he doesn't stand firm and do it, there's no reason for her to, either. She's 24 and has lots of time to wait for him.....

Gawd, how well I remember that pain... <P>I found the first series of letters in his dresser drawer back in 1987... little notes with pics drawn of a happy face woman, and a happy face baby that had "David's baby" written above it. The OW was pregnant, but not with his child since he'd had a vasectomy... but I digress and still wonder, since I got pregnant 16 months later -- the docs said that happens more often that we realize. Great, eh?<P>So... you know... don't you... that in MB-speak you need to be honest with your H about the note you found... COMPLETE HONESTY... otherwise, don't snoop. That said, I did it too, and I never told about one time. I understand, but I don't know what to tell ya...<P>Yeah, spend time with your H next week, Plan A his hiney off, and love him to pieces... <P>I still see this (what he told you) as a positive thing... even with that damned card you found. I wonder about that card... why is it there still? I really do wonder if he wanted you to see it. David used to do things like that -- stupid things, like throw the card (intact) away.

Hurting,<P>Wow...we must have posted our letters within seconds of one another (I had a lot of trouble getting it sent, and now I know why). I am going to tell you something that I did and please, use your own judgement on this and don't do it just because I did, but this is how I handled my "evidence": I made photocopies of everything I found, including that infamous receipt. Two weeks ago, I finally got up the courage to see a lawyer to find out what my rights are in my new home state, just in the event of a divorce. She said that making copies of things was an excellent idea and congratulated me for it. This way, should I EVER need it, I have it. If I don't need it, I can just toss it all out. Now, I know that this is probably a huge LB, but honestly, my H is so good at being sneaky that I just couldn't think of what else to do. It came down to this--either protect myself or just blindly trust and hope. So far, I've blindly trusted all of my married life and somehow, he managed to have an A. Call me wrong or even silly, but evidence is evidence and it speaks for itself. <P>I know just how you feel about being unsure of your H's motives for next week. My H is still keeping me in suspense, which I detest, but with him gone all week long, there isn't much chance to communicate. So, I have been busy getting things in place "just in case", and have slowly re-built a life for myself. If we stay together, my efforts will not be wasted at all since I've grown in maturity and independence. If we split up, I am ready to face it on my own, finacially, emotionally and even physically. <P>I have a question for you: What do you think would happen if you asked him today what his intentions are for next week, whether he is planning to leave you or not? This is an opportunity for you to be honest with him, and tell him what your fears are. Isn't that the way this Plan A is supposed to work? Because I, too, am still so new at this, I'd like to see what some of the veterans say.<P>My heart just aches for you, Hurting, for the emotional pain and anxiety you must be in right now. Please stay in touch with us here and let us know what's going on. We all truly do care...<P>Prayers and hugs,<BR>Winny

I have five kids... had an epidural for two of 'em. Sure was nice to mask the pain. Cleansing breaths don't work for pain, but they do for anger.<P>I got through the worst of the pain of discovery and the unknown with anti-anxiety meds, not anti-depressants as many here swear by. I haven't been depressed by any of this, just horribly anxious. There are anti-anxiety drugs (Xanax is one) that can be taken short-term, and work immediately. They kept me rational.<P>I think you'll need to dig deep into plan A starting NOW. Perhaps during the next week, you can get to mentioning the card during conversation. As best said here, Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Do your parents know any of this? Don't you have a dog that could inadvertantly knock over the bag and spill its contents? You moved it to vaccuum, and, oops, you dropped it? How will they (H & OW) stay in contact next week? Lots of us here can help with ideas, give us more info...<P>"Dear God, please grant me the strength & patience not to say or do anything stupid."<BR>--The Hat

J - like Sheryl, I see some positives. Hearing what was in the card was weirdly reassuring - he's still way in the fog - or at least, he's way BACK in the fog. Your torment is that he comes in and out of it, which can feel worse than if he just stayed in it until he was ready to come out for good. We know it doesn't usually happen like that. I know it's hard to see some positive in the day to day WS antics, but I see some positive for you. He just seems to have wide pendulum swings. In contrast, my wife has few, which makes it easier for me to ride the coaster, but I think it also means she'll change more slowly. All in all, I think the more turbulence there is, the more likelihood for a change.<P>I'm also a bit suspicious about the card - not that he's thinking clearly enough to conciously scheme for you to find it - just because it's so stupid to have it anywhere NEAR where you could find it. This tells me he's WAY OUT THERE! BEAM ME UP, MOTHERSHIP!!<P>My wife did something just as stupid. The day after I observed her and OM in the airport, which she sternly denied, "It didn't happen," she took the video tape out of my video camera, thinking, incorrectly, that I had taped the airport encounter. When I discovered the tape was missing, I immediately knew she had probably taken it. I looked everywhere for that tape because it had some really good video of my son's baseball games on it. I looked through all the cabinets, all the dresser drawers, under all the matresses - everywhere I could think of - thinking all the while that she probably threw it in the nearby lake. After a futile search, I just happened to see it in the kitchen trash - in plain view. I had looked everywhere but the kitchen trash. Amazing.<P>WAT

Hurting,<P>I haven't been on the boards much so I went back and caught up on your threads...<P>I think you know that no matter what YOU do, there can be no real recovery until he starts being completely honest with you.<P>That is something that has to "click" inside him.<P>You are allowing him to treat you badly (went back and read the threads about the disrespectful "shut the f up, etc...)<P>hurting, you are the only one who can love and respect YOURSELF so much that you don't put up with this.<P>It must "click" inside you. Yes, you want a great marriage with him, but you won't get there wishing for it. <P>I don't want to be harsh, but I want to be more blunt than usual. As I read back, I saw the same pattern repeating over and over. He treats you badly, then well and you get all excited...<P>I feel strongly about this because I too would hang on to my h, put up with bad treatment, etc...I thought I needed him so badly. Then I faced the idea of single motherhood. It wasn't pretty, but I realized that only when I truly loved and respected myself would he or anyone else do it. It was better than going on like we had.<P>If it were me, I would have to calmly tell him he was out the door until he decided to be completely honest AS A LIFESTYLE. I love you, but I cannot go on like this. That you deserve better than him staying for the kids. (Does he still talk that way, or has he improved?)<P>You know I encourage saving marriages all the way and quote the Harley way all the way like K does, but in your situation I have long felt that he won't respect you until you stand up to him and respect yourself.

Okay, I'm pissed.<P>Hon, you're definitely in my prayers. I hope for the sake of your self-esteem AND your children, your H either cleans up his act and knocks this abusive BS off, or you find the strength to get the hell out of there before it's too late. I'm too angry to say much else, except I'm starting to hope that your H's OW ends up being Lorena Bobbitt

thanks for the replies, everyone! I truly, truly appreciate the time everyone spends in supporting one another here. It truly is my lifeline right now.....<P>Sheryl---yes, I know that I need to be honest and tell him about the letter, or stop doing it. I honestly don't know why I do it, other than I never get the truth from him. Thanks for the reminder, though. I need that swift kick every so often!! I'm sure he didn't think I'd find it in his bag, but why he left it there today, I'm not sure. Maybe he thinks that I'll look today, not knowing I had found it already. Who knows.....<P><BR>Winny---I did ask him that question last night. All I got for an answer was "shut up" and "leave me the f*** alone". I never, ever get an honest answer about anything. That's why I am so frustrated and at the end of my rope. I NEVER know what's really going on.<P>Hat---Yep, going to do the best Plan A I can for the weekend and next week. We will be together 24/7, so if that isn't enough time together, then we're sunk. The OW could still be in contact with him via cell phone or email, but I plan to monitor that as much as I can without being smothering. I'll just make sure we're too busy to even turn the computer on <P>Dave---I hope the mother ship drops him off at home and goes back into space very, very soon.....<P>Schizzo---you're always there when I need you. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your reply to me. Sometimes, I need for people that are removed from the situation to lay it out to me exactly the way they see it. Everything that you said is very true. I have no respect for myself right now because of how I've allowed him to do these things to me for so long. I know that I'll be OK if he does leave, but am just not ready to let go yet. As for staying only for the kids---that reasoning hasn't been part of his discussions as of lately. I'm struggling, but am trying very hard to learn to like myself for who I am and gain some of the self respect that has been destroyed back. thanks again for your insight and help!!!<P>CB----Oh, now, T's pi$$ed you off. I'll be sure and warn him. Seriously, though, things are not improving. I'm trying very hard to hold on until he is out of his current job, which is tomorrow. Hopefully, that is what will make a difference in his desire to work on our marriage---being away from OW. Now, how are YOU???