Read a good book yesterday about manipulative people. The author used the acronym FOG in the following way"\<BR>F = fear<BR>O = obligation<BR>G = guilt<BR>These are the tools of the emotional blackmailer. While this book covered many types of relationships, it did also address infidelity and troubled marriages. FOG can be used by a WS to manipulate both a BS and and OP into remaining in a relationship despite behavior that is harmful and painful to them. It can also be used by an OP or BS for the same reasons. Some common phrases used by emotional blackmailers are: A Fear phrase "If you don't come back/stay with me I'll do "something". "Something" is always something to harm themselves or the person they are using Fear against (i.e. kill myself, kill you, destroy you, etc.). An Obligation phrase "You promised." A Guilt phrase "After all I've done for you." The author states that while many people may have their judgement clouded by crisis and use these phrases, people who use them consistently are emotionally blackmailing the other person. I know I've read of many OP threatening suicide, etc. and using the other two as well. If someone is to have at truly healthy relationship, they can't be either brought back or held by these tactics or the relationship will not be sound. So, if an OP is having an relationship with your spouse and is using these tactics, sooner or later it will backfire. And, if you yourself are using these tactics with a WS, stop! They are not good for you or the relationship. Just some thoughts from an interesting book.<P>JAL

I think we all have our way obscured by FOG. WS, BS & OP. I know I used some of those phrases in the beginning. "You promised." I was so "InShock," I couldn't believe it. "What about the kids?" (fear). But as time as gone on (7 wks), and in finding the MB site, I know a good plan A doesn't use any of these because the are LB's. FOG diminishes for BS with the proper tools. If WS does not have or find tools to blow away FOG, I think it can stay thick until 'something' happens. OP uses manipulation...WS has a revelation...<P>Manipulation by any involved will backfire. <P>------------------<BR>Cali<P><I> Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. </I><BR>1 Peter 5:6-7

Thanks I just had a talk with my WS she told me that I did these things,but until I saw it in print it didn't click.I guess I should stop,I truly do want her back.<P> Thanks again! NTK

According to the author, FOG works only so long as we allow it to. If we respond to it in the way the emotional blackmailer intended, then we give the message that it worked. And, they keep doing it. Likewise, if a person is being emotionally blackmailed, they, too, will realize eventually that they are responding only because of fear, obligation, or guilt. They will resent this, and it will eventually eat away at the relationship. Don't be the one to use FOG. If you don't use FOG and they still don't come back, it could be because the OP is using FOG and they are wired into it or it could be because they just can't be happy there. Either way, a spouse or lover won by FOG is not a victory worth having as it will not last.<P>JAL<P>ps: I'm sure you all know by now that I am OW. W is a big FOG user. Over the years it has diminished, but only when she realizes that a certain tactic isn't working. What works, she continues. My partner also read this book and recognized, painfully recognized, patterns that have existed for his entire marriage, him the FOGee and her the FOGer. It probably goes back to childhood and roles learned. NOT excusing the cheating here, only trying to shed light on the subject.

worth bumping up [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

"Over the years...."<p>Years? Why years?.... gosh Lurker, your position sounds so painful if you've been the OW for years . [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Why would you do that to yourself ... it must hurt like hell! Are you married too? ( I suspect you are)<p>Fear / obligation / guilt ..... sounds like the British Royals (LOL) [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>PEPPER