Some good suggestions <P>Cali's idea,<BR><B><BR>You just count to 1000---okay 1 million, breathe<BR></B><P>If you actually make it to a million without breathing. You'll be so happy and amazed at your own accomplishments. You'll be famous too. I don't know anyone off hand who can even count to a thousand without breathing. Just don't pass out trying. I only made it around a 150 outloud myself. I'm sure i could go longer without actually saying the numbers.<P>-- Added <BR>Update. Pace your self.. Thats the trick. I'm beating my original 150 numbers by a long shot now.<P> <P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 21, 2001).]

(((((((((((((((((((((Orchid)))))))))))))))))))))))))<P>I'm so sorry this is happening. <P>Sweetie, hold out for a letter direct from her doctor's office. Something here smells very fishy. Not knowledgeable about pregnancy? A woman over 20? And she claims to have a degree in biology??? So she can read, right? Plus what a stupid thing for a doctor to say - that her eggs are old and that makes this a high-risk pregnancy. I know a couple of women who had their first pregnancies in their forties and neither of them got this line. This sounds to me like yet another ploy. Even if she is pregnant, a DNA test is in order. It's not her eggs that are deteriorating with age, but whatever brain cells she has left!!!<P>My H did exactly what yours is doing. He defended OW against me on every occasion that she caused trouble. He even denied that she'd said something and when I showed him the very words in her emails he'd say that he hadn't noticed it, that she didn't mean it that way, that she's manic-depressive and sometimes she won't take her medicine.... now that it's over he can't believe how blind he was. But at the time he really was both blind and deaf. And his relationship with the OW was definitely codependent. (Actually, at one point I distinctly remember telling him that it was as if a dog had savaged me and he was anxiously examining the dog's fangs to see if they'd been hurt on my nasty body, and cleaning my filthy blood off the dog's fur. I suppose that was a major LB!!!)<P>Hang in there. You have your self and your children to take care of. Change your phone number, unlisted, so this psycho witch can't harass you. Do you have somebody who could come in and help you for a while? Sister, cousin, mother? Return to Plan B? Get yourself some space and time to breathe and let your aching nerves stop twanging. <P>Harley uses the analogy of a WS being like a donkey who sees two bales of hay and tries to feed off both. Well, my H - and yours by the sound of it - seem to have only one bale each (me, you,) feed off that and then go and feed another donkey with mouthsful of hay from the bale. The OW does NOT meet any of their real emotional needs, which is why they keep running back to the spouse, who does. That's why these affairs are so cruel to the spouse, who's getting chewed to shreds, and why these affairs can only last as long as there's a source of hay. I think I mentioned that my H's OW had THREE engagements to other men while they were involved?<P>It looks to me as if Psychobabble is the dependent and your H is the co-dependent who enables her. He keeps coming back to you because she has nothing to give him and takes more than he can give; plus she ups the ante every time she fears her control is slipping. In turn, this makes your H the dependent in your relationship - he's the Taker, right? - and turns you into the co-dependent whose buttons keep being pushed. He acts, you react. And he's reacting to the buttons being pushed by her. <P>If you'd like to read "Women Who Love Too Much" I'd willingly mail you my copy if you can't get it from the library.<P>

WOW...<P><BR>OK, I'm coming over with Cali and we'll both help. I'm not holding you back either. This combined with the goodies you found in the truck. You were rude to her??!! Yea...(cough, choke), right.<P>He is taking the lead in the competition for the thickest fog of the year gold medal. Give me a very large break, and you too! You do not deserve this!!!<P>Did he get his stuff and leave yet? If not save me a place at the who can find the nastiest thing to do with H's belongings competition. <P>I've never seen a clearer cut case for at least a good Plan B move. You cannot keep taking this kind of stress esp in your condition, forget about your love bank, you are pregnant (I doubt she is but no doubt is trying like heck to poke holes in those condoms). Good grief. What a drama queen.<P>Forget it, forget the whole thing for a while, let the white knight ride off to try to save Pregnant Beauty (gag), then you can be in the position she is in and maybe he'll start yelling at her for being rude, and wake up and smell the cr** she is feeding him. And more important you won't have to have a front row seat while he hits bottom, it's gonna be ugly when he does I bet.<P>OK, Cali and I are here and waiting.. I want a shot at both of them! Cali I'll flip you for the first shot at her H!<P><BR>

Your on NY--But why flip a coin? We can "bicoastal" him and get the job done twice as fast.<P>You know what they say "two coasts are better than one."<P>Okay, I'm in a weird mood.<P>The waiting for him to leave is getting on my nerves. I'm ready to help anyone's H move out at this point...maybe even my own.<P>I'm sick of walking on eggshells. I'm sick of watching my words. I'm sick of biting my tongue. Heck, today I have a sniffly cold and I'm just plain sick.<P>Just say the word Orchid....<P><BR>Cali

Bi- Coastal.. LMAO!!<P>Man do we have him surrounded. <P>I like the new phrase, it's a keeper, and a deal. <P>

I'm up in Southwestern Ontario. Would that be far enough north to get him from this angle??? <P>Karen<BR>

I'm in Calgary, Alberta...I'll help Topie cover the north!!<P>Oh Orchid!...I can't believe what this man is putting you through!<BR>You have so much strength Orchid...don't waste it on this man right now...save it for yourself and your little ones.<BR>Plan B babe...fast and solid!<BR>It's time to start protecting your feelings (what little you may have left) and focusing on taking care of your son and baby Orchid.<BR>Hang in there L...we're all here for you.<BR>((((hugs))))<BR>-SD

Dear Orchid,<BR>You asked for a joke, so here goes... Why did Solomon have 700 wives? So he could come home from work and find one of them in a good mood! <P>Also remember that your emotions are already off the charts due to your pregnancy hormones raging. God be with you!!! Before I got married, I raised my oldest son alone for 10 years (pregnancy was a result of an affair with a married man). After I got married and had more kids, I realized that there are plenty of times when I feel the weight and pressures of being a single parent again. So in case you are afraid that you can't do it alone, don't be afraid because you are already doing it, and already have been...

Wow, you are all too much. Talk about support. H can't even step out his front door. Wouldn't that be nice if we could all have our H's watched like that? <P>You have all made my day. <P>Now the pager has been cancelled. Ooops? Sent the payment late (H was already behind) and oops it is cancelled. 1 down and 1 (work cell phone) to go. <P>So the latest is that H says he still wants to work it out with his family. I say I need to be convinced. Clothes in boxes still in the hallway. H has been working long hours but he is not an invalid, those boxes will represent where H will be going. Out the door or in the house. <P>If he stays (I am the pessimist here), a letter goes to OW saying all contact will include me and can be done in writing, proof of pregnancy will require notification in writing from the doctor, DNA tests will be required later, no support will be provided until court required, any requests need to be given via a lawyer, only phone number contact is the house phone. <P>That is one long list and the terms are strict. Not sure of how it will be received on both ends (H & OWs). H is aware of most of it. Obviously, there is need to have a real serious non interupted discussion. It is set for this weekend. We will see. I am juggling a increased work schedule (I work in payroll taxes) and now this. H will need to work with my schedule and his. Also, I have asked H to provide reassurance that there is no hidden agenda or contact of any sort with OW that I am not aware of and need his reassurance that he is there for his family. <P>A lot to put on his plate, but not an impossible task. It can be done if the drive is there. Hmmm!!?!?!?!? <P>So all you great people out there in MB land, thanks again for your support, you have helped me strengthen my resolve to stay strong for my family. <P>I don't take the credit for being able to handle it all. You have seen my frustration come out in writing. I have had my share of tears, fears and pain. I have to credit my parents, my personal beliefs and faith in God. For instilling in me to love life and do what is right despite adversity. <P>Eyes wide open, waiting to see what the 'morrow will bring. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.<BR>

Hi Juststartingover,<P>I just wanted to comment about the 'old eggs' syndrome. This OW is 45, never had a child, may or may not have been preg before. There is a nurse on the preg/child board that has been helping me understand the true situation of OW's status, here is a partial quote from her post:<P>"I am a Perinantal RN ( high risk OB RN). The egg at 45 is very difficult to penetrate usually Pg is achieved by IUI, or IVF at this age.....does it happen by accident? Of course<BR>but the Miscarriage rate at her age is up in the 50-60%..you had NOTHING to do with her miscarriage at age 44..I had 6 miscarriages age38-42 ( had a baby in the middle of it..but knew it was not going to be easy)...her miscarriage (if she had one) was due to OLD EGGS..and her rate of having a chromsomal abnormality at age 45 is 1:30 (in that range) so if she is preg and does not miscarry...hope you H is ready to take care of a downs child or worse.."<P>So if OW visited her doctor, which I hope she did, that is what she may have been told. I am only a couple of years younger than her and I am preg also. <P>Here is her 2nd post to me about my condition: <P>"Orchid,<BR>There is still a BIG difference between 43 and 45...<BR>She has 2X a greater chance of problems ( trisomy's etc..)<BR>your risk is high but hers is TWICE AS HIGH... I know it seems strange but it is light years difference.. at OUR age they count in months not years. as far as the risks, and they usually do use the age that we are when we give birth.<BR>as far as your fibroid..I have seen babies delivered and the moms had fibriods the size of canalopes..of course location is important...and of course you will "show" sooner because of it. Sounds like your doctor is not too concerned...which is good.. Your Miscarriage was probably due to age ( like I said I have had 6, and have every test known to mankind to r/o any problems...all normal) which tells me I had "old egg" bad luck...you said you got a heartbeat...even YOUR Miscarriage rate now drops to 3 %...if the heartbeat was a good one. so just relax ( yea right) and do not be the go between for your H and witch lady....find someone else..you need to take care of you and your little one..."<P>This matches what I have heard from my OB/GYN also. I do not wish harm on OW's child. However, I will not succumb to OW's whines about need for financial or emotional support during her pregnancy. She has already asked for H to come and comfort her in this her time of need. Right. I am paying for mine, she needs to pay for hers. I am mentally preparing myself to be able to handle whatever may happen good or bad. <P>More yucky stuff will probably happen. <P>L.<BR>

Well here is the latest yucky stuff. I went to the doctor's for a checkup yesterday and he could not find a heartbeat. I had suffered what is termed as a 'mis-miscarriage'. This is similar to what happened to me last year. <P>This time however, it was worse. Today, I had the D&C procedure. Now the only one left preg is OW. H commented that he wished our child survived. It was not to be. Now I will have to brace myself for the possibility of the OW's child being a reality. Double Yuck. Not on the child, though. It is not the fault of the child, just the child's mother & my H. <P>We informed our son. He immediately asked for another baby. Boy did that hurt. But he needed to know since his cousin just had a 1/2 brother born and the boys share everything with each other. I did not want our son to think we were withholding information from him. <P>Like what keeps all of you going, I will survive also. Just a little hard for me at the moment. I am angry at H right now. I originally asked him not to come to the hospital with me. Even made him wait out in the car at the beginning. Later he came and even cried a little. Yet I am still angry. <P>I so much want this gone, gone gone..... Now my body is in shock and my soul is trying to be in recovery but it just does not seem to be there. Guess I'd better go get some rest but for some reason, I am afraid to sleep. <P>The doctor did a great job and the sugurical/recovery staffs were great, it is just me. Nothing can make this emptiness go away. Yet I am getting just too old to keep doing this kind of thing. <P>Gotta face that fact!!! Can't turn back the hands of time.<P>L.<P><BR>

Orchid,<P>{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}<P>I'm near tears here for you. I've had a miscarriage and gave birth to still born twins. After the twins I had a terrible infection and can no longer have children. My son(12) is adopted. So I understand a lot of how you feel. I am so sorry for your pain. Life is just not fair. <P>You know my son always wanted siblings. My previous marriage, to his father, was so bad that I would not even consider adopting another child. So I made it up to him by making sure that he had friends who were like brothers to him. I have a friend who is divorced, raising 3 boys by herself. Her two oldest spent most weekends at my house for years. Gave her a break and my son “brothers”. Now that I’m remarried he has a sister 11) and a brother (13). It’s a riot because he has all of the usually complaints about siblings. Some times I think he is so happy to just finally have someone to complain about. <P>I’m going on too much about myself when you are hurting so much. For the next few days just take extra good care of you. <P>As always we are here.<P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Orchid:<P>Know that my prayers and thoughts are with you as well.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Oh [[[[[[[[[[[Orchid]]]]]]]]]]]]]],<P>I know there are no words that I can say. I know how incredibly sad you are and how the emptiness hurts. My prayers are with you for strength. Please take care of yourself.<P>Cali<P>

My prayers go out to you and your family. It is so difficult to lose a baby and you have so much more to deal with on top of it. Hugs and strength to you.

Orchid,<P>so sorry. hate to say been there done that, thought for a long time it was no big deal but I find a grieve for that baby every yr.<P>Hope you can go do something nice for yourself.<P>Haven't been able to follow much of anyone's story lately. <P>I will update mine when our container comes in a few wks. <P>prayers, thoughts being sent your way

Orchid,<P>I am so,so sorry.Thoughts,prayers and a big hug from me.<BR>This subject is so close to my heart.<P>SAA

((((((((((((((((Orchid))))))))))))))))))<P>You are in my thoughts.<P>This is so much for one to have to go through all at once.<P>Please take care of yourself.

Sounds like y'all haves the north, east & west covered. I'm in Texas, so I got the South for ya!<P>Hang in there, Orchid. I'm so sorry you are going through this. You are doing the best thing you can by accepting help and just being here.<P>I wish I had something profound to say. It all escapes me right now.<P>Blessings,<BR>Bound<P><BR>

<<<<<<<<<<<Orchid>>>>>>>><P>I am SO, SO very sorry for your pain.<P>HbH