I don't know why I think that. The house was a total wreck. I just wanted to help her out.<P>You think that I am smothering her?<P>I try to give her time. But I just miss her and my children so much. I am just so confused and don't know what to do. I want to be with them so badly that after a month I still can't do much at work but just sit here and think of them and what an idiot I am for ever putting them thru all of this. I want to hold her so bad.<P>MarkC

OW had the nerve to send me another E-Mail after I told her NO CONTACT. Should I disclose it to my wife?? <P>I want to but is it a Good Discission....<P>MarkC<P>This is what she said:<P><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <BR>Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 9:32 PM<BR>To: <BR>Subject: An apology from me<P><BR>I just wanted to say how very sorry I am for everything! I have been doing ALOT of thinking and wanted to let you know how sorry I am. I am sorry that things got so f---ed up, I am sorry we can't talk to each other anymore, because so much has happend and I can't share it with YOU, but I am sorry the most for the loss of our friendship. I miss that and I miss you. All I know is a very good friendship has been lost over this and I hate that.<BR> <BR>I want you to know that I wish the best for you in everything you do and I hope you are ok.<BR> <BR> <BR>Take care <P>My Responce:<P><BR>Well if you are the sorry then maybe you need to call my wife and appoligize to her, She is the one that is HURTING the most from all of this. Well I am sorry to but I am about to loose the best friend of my life, the one that has stuck with me thru think and thin, and wife and mother of my two wonderful children. <BR> <BR>I ask that after you receive this email that you NEVER contact me again. <BR> <BR>Thanks<P><BR>

Mark,<P>The emotional roller coaster can last for several months. Generally it takes 2 years to recover from an affair. So hold on tight, it’s a long ride.<P>Do you have an agreement with your wife to tell her if the OW and you have contact? This is a tough one. I believe that she does need to know but the question is when.<P>Your response was good. However, if she answers you it might be wise that you not respond again. As long as you do, there is communication going on. That will hurt your wife.<P>Tell your wife that you want to be radically honest with her. That despite your no-contact letter, that the OW sent you email and that you replied telling her that no contact means no contact. Then give her printouts of the two emails. You may even want to give her the email address and other info on the OW. I know that some people would disagree with me on that last one, but it would be an act of giving her the power of deciding if she wanted to give the OW a piece of her mind. <P>Does you email provider allow you to block senders? If it does then do that and tell your wife that you did.<P>Why not also give your wife the password to your email account? Again that’s part of being radically honest.<P>It does sound like your MIL is having undue influence on your wife. It probably sets the roller coaster ride into full speed ahead.<P>Something to contemplate: You wife is afraid because you have done this twice. She needs to know how she can be sure that you will never do this again. What have you done to prevent this. What preventive measures have you put in place. <P>It does seem that you are making progress. <P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Zorweb,<P>Thanks for your responce. I have gave her all my user names and passwords even my Work one. I want show her the Email. but I guess I am afraid of the outcome. I want to be honest with her and show her that I have nothing to hide from her ever again.<P>I want to build back my trust with her. I just don't want to do it and be LB's. <P>She said that she wanted to go to counseling. Has anyone talked with steve or his wife? I think that maybe she should talk with his wife. She told me that she prefers talking to a female councelor.<P>MarkC

Again you are on the right road.<P>I can understand your fears of telling your wife about the communication. But you did the right thing in your reply. You were supportive and protective of your wife. Have you read the MB books? A lie (even by omission) told to protect is still a lie. If your wife ever finds out about the emails she will only see it as your have told one more lie. She will not feel protected. I say this from experience.<P>I have not talked to Steve or his wife but others who have say very good things about them. Why not give the Harley’s a call?<P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

I have read 2 of their books, Surviving an affair and His Needs Her Needs. I have left them at the house for the wife to read. But she has yet to pick them up and look at them, I guess she is still stressed and confused as what to do. she has got me begging for forgiveness and to work on our marriage, and her mother telling her that she should give it all up. It is just amazing how when we are together we are able to talk alittle and think about stuff that we need to do and as soon as she spends time with her mother she doesn't want anything to do with me. <P>She has told me that she is affraid of what they will say if she was to take me back. I just hope that counceling will help her in deciding that she needs to do what she wants to do and not what others want her to do. I do want her and want to make all of this up to her. I love her and greatly hate myself for putting her in all of this pain.<P>MarkC

MarkC:<P>One day at a time, one step at a time, my friend. You are not in a sprint here; you are in a marathon of recouping your marriage. Part of that is proving, over time, that you are really trying to re-earn your wife's trust.<P>To help in that, by all means show her the emails. When doing so, tell her WHY you are showing them to her. Tell her that you truly believe in the principle of radical honesty.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Hi MarkC,<BR>The reason why I said that you are smothering her is because she is repulsed by you right now. She actually watched a tape of you and your OW, which was more than many BS's care to know, even tho they think they might... She didn't need to ask any questions! :-/<P>Put yourself in your wife's shoes for a minute. Because to me, it sounds like all you can think about right now is your own pain and how much you miss her and the kids and how much you want to hold her and convince her of your love, etc. I have no arguments with any of that, but, just for a second, try to see your wife's perspective by the way your OW is responding to you. OW misses you. OW wants contact with you in spite of your request for no contact ever again. OW is not hearing you. SHE ignored your wishes because all she can think about is how much she misses you. <P>In the same way, you ignore your wife's wishes for a separation period. You moved out and now you are pushing things, setting time limits, missing your kids and supporting two households, competing with your wife's family for her attention. You are paying the price for your decision to preserve the memory of your fling. I could be wrong, but my guess is that your wife thinks that you saved the video tape because of some more meaningful reason than there really was ESPECIALLY if you never taped yourself together with your wife!<P>Thank goodness you didn't fall in love with the OW. That's good, BUT your wife is simply not ready to feel the shower of your affections right now and you must respect that or else you are going to turn her off even more.<P>She tossed your letters. Ouch. She is not open to all your affection right now. That also hurts. You are confused because you don't understand that right now the best thing you can do is just leave her alone. Yes, check in to feel her mood and see your kids and everything, but you know when she is ready to talk and when she's not. There can be no time limit on this. She's deeply wounded. People have different threshholds for pain.<P>Trusting God is not a passive thing. Trusting God means we know that He knows our situation through and through. He knows what your wife needs and you're better off spending more time with HIM so HE can teach you how to minister to your wife. After all, He made her. He knows how she ticks. He knew all this would happen in your lives and it came as no surprise to Him. He knows how it will turn out. Hook up with Him! He's here to help us in the darkest of times so we can learn from them, then move on to the good times. THERE ARE GOOD TIMES AHEAD FOR YOU MARKC!! Please be encouraged!<P>From a human relational standpoint, IMO, she needs time away from you to miss you. Let your grass grow and let the weeds start taking over. Let the house get messier. Let her see how needed you are around the house. Please don't neglect your girls tho. Take them out on individual dates and plan regular activities with them. Their mom's love for them is tainted right now, so you have to take over so they don't feel they are the cause of her misery. She might be taking her anger out on them a little. <P>?? I could be wrong on this, but from personal experience, I happen to have a mate who is not manipulated by my showers of hugs and kisses and love letters. My words, actions, and attitudes weigh far more heavily on my mate's mind than any other type of expression. When we're in conflict, I want to draw closer and he wants to get away from me. There is not a hug big enough to draw him back. I have had to learn how to WAIT until he is ready to talk to me. Period.<P>You are confused because you are thinking too much and trying to figure things out too much, setting time limits on HER healing. You are over the affair--she is not! You have to respect that. The only thing you can control right now is yourself so get a grip! (Get a grip on God!)<P>Listen to zorweb and STL because they have been through A LOT more than I have and they really know what's what. Men and women are basically the same BUT couples are all different, so you have to do whatever works best for you.<P>We choose our acts, but we cannot choose the consequences and unfortunately for us, when the enemy tempts us to do wrong, he doesn't reveal the consequences up front. You are feeling the consequences of your own choices. God forgives unconditionally, people don't. Your wife's family probably never will forgive you even if your wife does arrive at that point and hopefully she will.<P>God will not override her will. If she chooses to stay with you, then you are blessed. If she chooses not to, then you have to be ready to accept that as the consequence of your thoughtlessness. That's just how life works. In the meantime, while your wife is trying to figure out what she wants to do with her predicament, you have to learn how to be patient. The only way we can learn patience is to wait. <P>While you wait, you can trust God and let Him work on you controlling your spoiled bratty behavior because you aren't getting what you want (YOUR house and YOUR wife and YOUR kids to have and to hold daily). I tell you this as someone who is genuinely concerned so please don't think I'm trying to beat up on you. You have to seriously get a grip! Stop trying to make up her mind for her and let her make up her own mind. Let God convince her.<P>Personally, I don't think I would shove those e-mails from the OW on her right now. She probably would take them straight to her family. She could care less about the OW right now. At least until she is ready to truly reconnect with you. She probably feels like she knows way too much already. So give yourself and your wife a break and think of OWs feelings and pray for her as well. She's another human being out there whom God loves and who was also affected by your choices.<BR>

Well I didn't give her a copy of the Email. Thought that it would be better to wait. But I couldn't stand not seeing them so they were over at her mothers house, Yes Yes I did stop. I just couldn't stop myself. I got to see my Girls for a couple hours. We played board games and had fun. My Mother in law was kinda shocked to see me at the door. But she invited me in. Wife was kinda shocked to see me to. My mother in law asked me if I wanted to eat. I couldn't turn it down. We all talked together like everything was ok. Me and my wife went to COSCO to pick up some pictures of our last camping trip. She also said that I only want what I can't have right now. I told her that No I want her forever and to make her happy forever. She said that I would regret if we got back together and run off and do this again. She does agree that we didn't fix our problem the first time and we just tried to ignore it instead of working on our issues. She was kinda mad I think for stopping by. But over all I think it was good.<BR> She said that I must have alot of BaIIs to be stopping by and why didn't I call first. ( I told her that If I'd called she would have said no. she said that I was right). She said that she was suprised that her mother didn't say anything to me. I told her that if she did then I would have deserved it and that I wanted to face them and appologies. I got ready to leave and gave my sister in law a hug ( something that I have never done before) and told her thanks for everything, then I gave my mother in law a hug and told her thanks for everything and thanks for supper, she that she was sorry for the situation that we were in. Then she said to stop by one morning to talk, I told her ok and to take care of herself. I gave my wife a hug and a kiss and asked her to call me when she got home so that I would know that she made it home ok. she said that she might, So now I am just sitting her waiting for her to Call so I will know that she and our girls are home OK.<P>MarkC

Mark, <P>BINthereDUNthat has made some very good points. There is certainly a lot to ponder.<P>As for giving your wife the email. You know your wife, if you feel that giving it to her right now would be too much for her, then you are right to wait.<P>But some day, you will need to do that. You could find out when the right time might be by simply asking her. Say that you wrote the OW a no-contact letter. Tell her how you plan to handle any further contact and ask if she wants to know if you receive any further contact.<P>Your wife is obviously very hurt. I still wonder why you brought that tape into your house. It's like you wanted to her to find it. People do that you know. When I started to find out about STL's affair, I realized that he'd been leaving phone numbers and email address all over the place. I just trusted him so much that I never even looked at the papers. I even found a note pad on our bedroom floor one day with names, phone numbers, etc. Guess he wanted me to catch him so he'd stop. I was not paying attention so he had to be more and more blatant. <BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Well MarkC,<BR>Ya gotta do whatcha gotta do. Actually, I think it is cool that you're persistent. I'm like you esp. when we get into conflicts. But my husband is NOT and my persistence can really turn him off sometimes. Which it is good for me because I can work on my own issues and allow GOD to be my all and in all when I'm waiting for my husband to cool down. When the rubber meets the road, we are accountable to God and on Judgment day, we won't be able to say we didn't obey God because of the way our spouses were or weren't. It's a personal thing.<P>If both are giving 100%, then nobody has to wonder where the other 50% is going. So I really believe marriage is a 200% commitment, you know?<P>I'm glad that you are reaching out to your in-laws, tho. It is better to be friends with them instead of competition. I think you did the right thing to show them all affection and be apologetic and like Z and STL said--you are going to have to apologize over and over and over... for however long is necessary.<P>Z-I'll take a stab at your twice unanswered question. I think he took the tape home so that he could prolong the memory of his fling. Maybe watch it and get off on it from time to time. (?) I could be wrong, but somehow, he was attempting to preserve the memory of it, esp. since he intended never to do it again. He just got busted. Who knows? Perhaps if he DID get away with it, he might have been tempted to do it again. In relationships, we teach each other what is and what is not permissable. This was definitely his wakeup call, in any case and I'm glad she found it. It was a DUMB thing to do to 1.tape it, 2.save the tape and 3.bring it into the home. I'm sure nobody needs to point it out, but I just can't help but say it. <P>THAT WAS SO DUMB MARKC!!!!!!!! Consider yourself hugged and not judged because *I* have done some really stupid things too so I don't mean to kick the dead horse. Just don't ever do that again, okay???????? PLEASE!!! I think you are on the road to recovery. Keep doing what you're doing (persist in repentance), and don't give up on yourself. Go to counseling with or without her. We all need to learn more about ourselves in our journeys through life. God bless!<BR>

well what a weekend it was.... Saturday I painted the porch while the wife was shopping with the kids and her mother and sister. ( boy was my ears burning Ha Ha ) I called her on her cell and told her that I was at the house painting and she sounded kinda happy. The neighbors came by and asked if we wanted to come over and have a cook out. ( yes the know) I called her again and asked her and she said that she probably wouldn't be home in time. But for me to go ahead. So I did. When she got home I went to the house and meet her and we went back over there. stayed a couple hours. To me it seemed like things were going great. We went back to the house and started to get the kids ready for their baths and I took care of my youngest one. When she was done she didn't want me to leave and wanted me to watch TV with her. So I did and we both fell asleep on the couch. My wife tried to wake me up once to leave. I kinda woke up and went back to sleep. So I ended up sleeping on the couch. <P>Got up sunday and went to church by myself and then went back home. We had a wonderful day together, me her and the kids. I Cooked supper again and we all ate at the table like a real family. Man was it so good to feel like a family again. Well it came time for me to go. I didn't want to push the issuse of staying another night. I couldn't resist I had to give her a copy of the Email. I told her not to read it till tomorrow so that she would sleep. But I called her about 15 min after I left and asked her if she read it and she said what do you think. I said yes you read it. I told her that I have nothing to hide from her ever again. She started asking me questions about when me and the OW had talked via Email. and I told her. I told her about during last Thinkgivings when the OW wanted me to come to the state that she lives (where I am from) I told OW no. even though me and her did go there. She said so you just lied to her to huh. She got upset but I think that I did the right thing. I could be wrong but I guess time will tell.. I told her that I will install monitoring software and whatever she wants. I reminded her that I gave her my passwords to my email accounts. she said that she didn't want to look in my email.<BR>I told her that I don't want to hide anything from her ever again. and she said sure what about in 6 months. I told her give me a chance to prove it to you. she said we will talk tomorrow.... <P>God Bless All.<P>GoodNight <P>MarkC

well I just got off the phone with her. I guess giveing her a copy of the E-mail was a big big LB. Man I thought that I was doing the right thing do. I just want to be honest with her and prove to her that I love her and her only. I don't want to lie to her. We had made plans to spend a week at the beach week after next. I hope that I just didn't ruin it. I need everyones prayers. <P>Goodnight<P>MarkC

Well,<BR>I think it (the e-mails) might have been just way too much for her to process right now. She's obviously overwhelmed and needs time to just think and come up with her own questions.<P>Give her some breathing room! Keep doing what you're doing as far as going to church and checking in on the kids and your house and everything, but plan on giving her LOTS of space. Let her come to you.<P>If you don't back off a little, you might not be able to hear when God says GO and when God says NO. Be led by HIS voice. Usually it's what your first mind tells you to do. When you feel confused, go back to what your first mind said. If you have doubts about it, then don't do it, or else wait until everything inside of you screams YES! You're in my thoughts and prayers.

BINthereDUNthat,<BR>Thanks for your post. I guess I should have waited to give it to her. Things were looking so good. atleast I thought. I just wanted to prove to my wife that when I told her NO CONTACT that is what I meant. I will give her time I am not pushing the issue with her. I do want her to talk with a counselor though. I just don't know what to do now but pray and pray, like Daniel did.<P>MarkC

Just a little Update:<P>well I guess I didn't do to bad by giving her the copy of the Email. I Talked with her today . She was in a good mood, she must have thought really hard lastnight that I was being serious when I gave her a copy of the Email.I made the reservation to go on vacation. 4 days and 3 nights in Mrytle Beach. I feel great. She called and asked if I would work on the Van before we go. So I am hoping that this vacation will be the ticket for us, and give us some real time to spend together. I am so excited I am like a little kid in a Candy store. I better reread HN/HN again just so that I don't LB. I want to make her happy again and show her that I am the right man for her and that this will never happen again.<P>Hope that everyone is haveing a Great Evening............. I am......Still not at home but that is ok for now.<P>MarkC

Mark C<P>I hope you have a great time at the beach. <P>Just remember, it will take a long time for your W to trust you again. Maybe you know that you will never stray again but she doesn't. It takes a long time.<P>Remember: Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. It can work. <P>As a BS whose H says that the A is over, I would welcome the e-mails that you gave your W. Just remember everything needs to be digested. Take it slow and keep up the good work.<P>R3

R3,<P>I posted it on 6 July. Back on page 2. I know that it is going to take a LONG LONG time for her to trust me again. But I am going to do what ever it takes to prove to her that I love her and only her. I know that time heals all pains. But I am going to make her the happiest woman in the world. Their are going to be bad times ahead for us I know but I am going to make sure that the good times out weigh the bad ones.<P>MarkC

Mark,<P>Glad to hear things are looking up. The advice of giving her some room is good. I am sure she still loves you, but she has a lot to get over. And you are taking the path that it is your responsibility to help her heal.<P>I read this following on forgiveness today. Thought you might find it interesting. You might want to print it out and give it to your wife. It's a lot less reading then an entire book.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html</A> <P>Hope all goes well.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Dear MarkC,<BR>That's great that SHE ASKED something of you. That's sort of what I was thinking you should hold out for--the times when she really needs you enough to ask you. Good that you are going away for a while. Just one question tho, if time heals all wounds, then God is unnecessary? God is the Master of the Breakthrough and it sounds to me like you are getting yours. Great advice to yourself to pray, pray, pray.<P>When my teenager was wayward at 14 (expelled from school, on probation, rebellious attitude), we took a parenting class. There was some good advice about enforcing consequences, etc., but the lessons always focused back on three things: pray, pray, pray. And that advice works in EVERY situation! God knew we would be here in these circumstances before we ever got here. He knows the way out. Have a great vacation! <P>BTW, my son is now very involved in church as a youth leader, is working and got a 4.0 both semesters of his first year in college...