new to this board and would like some insight. my h has been with the ow for nine months. he moved in with her soon after the affair started. during this whole time, he's told me the whole spectrum of lines cheating spouses spew off - from i don't love you anymore, there's no passion between us to i never stopped loving you, i don't want a divorce, you make me feel whole. i don't know what to believe and don't understand how h can say the total opposite things. lately all i've heard from him is that he does love me but is confused. he's scared that if he comes back, he may end up in the same situation as before and be unhappy. he needs time. but while he's in this state, he continues being with the ow. <P>he doesn't want to move his things out of the house (he only has his clothes at the ow's place), our finances are still together and he gives me all his paychecks, he's been telling me that he is trying to work his way back home but is not at the point where he can leave the ow. he does not want a divorce at all, will not sign anything and does not have a lawyer. i've filed for divorce and will give him the settlement to sign within days. upon signing the settlement our divorce would be final so it's really close to being over with us. <P>anyway, we have 2 kids and have been together for 10 years, (7 years married and 3 years dating). this is the first time he's strayed from the relationship. if anyone can make sense out of all this, please pass on that wisdom to me. does he really not want this divorce because he honestly thinks he'll come back? on my end, i just don't think there's any hope. i can't hang on and stay in this state of limbo. it's not fair to the kids or me.

Oh Dear, dear, confusedpuppy,<BR>What a fiasco, I really do feel very bad for you.<P>I have but one question - how many books have you read about divorce, and the after affects - and specifically damage it does to children?<P>I hope you've done alot of research - lawyers don't care because they make a living at this.<P>I know you don't see much hope - I saw your line - but could you hold off just a little. Have you read Surviving an Affair, Dr. Harley?<P>Remember - divorces are forever too. Have you done Plan A/Plan B?<P>Please come back on this stuff. Listen - you just said you are new to this board. We know he has hurt you, but have you read some of the divorce stuff here. Custody, visitation rights, child support, going back to court to increase support payments. I really don't know you, but I would like to know how much reading you've done. Please. aftershock

hi after shock,<P>i've read the harley's books as well as all the other affair books that have been published. i've visited all the websites about infidelity and divorce. i've spoken to people who have been in affairs, those who have been through a divorce and those who grew up in split homes. i've lurked many boards and although i wrote that i'm new here, what i meant was that i just registered but i've been reading posts for a while now. so i've done my homework on both affairs and divorce. i've also done the plan a thing which is how my stbx got on the fence. now i'm trying to do plan b with a twist, getting that divorce. i just don't have it in me anymore to hang on. i feel as though he strings me along to give me false hope then never does anything to follow through with what he says. i'm tired of this rollercoaster and want to move on.

confused puppy - to answer your title question, "What is he thinking?", let me offer this: he's thinking he's screwed up big time and is scared s***less you'll divorce him. Your Plan A must have worked quite well.<P>Now, what the h*** are YOU thinking? Do you want your marriage or not?<P>Let me point out the good signs. He's speaking some truth, anyway. I'd love to hear my wife say she's confused, doesn't want a divorce, and have her send me her paychecks.<P>If you're in Plan B, I think you need to stick to it. There is no such thing as Plan B with a twist. Divorce is where you go when your Plan B fails, and nine months is really on the short side for this whole episode. It sounds like your Plan B has some holes if you're still on the roller coaster - the whole point of Plan B is to get you off the coaster - to insulate you from the waffling, to prevent where you now find yourself - frustrated and ready to quit.<P>I'm sorry if I've misunderstood something, but I think you need to cut off all communication if you're really in Plan B, then give the affair its chance to implode like you know it will.<P>WAT

confusedpuppy -<BR>Worthatry is right - you have to follow the principles - remember the main story in Surviving an Affair - that one really seemed hopeless. Of course the role was reversed, and he cut off the W's money - <P>listen to this one -<P>I have read in divorce books - that people have said - <BR>"if they knew what was going to happen, they wouldn't have done it". Just think about that - this is down the road - if they knew, they wouldn't have.<P>You have the power at the moment to change it. You are right - we don't know because we haven't talked to you before. I went through a divorce - we were married 5 years, no children, he kept coming back and breaking in, and taking stuff, I had to put a restraining order to keep him off my property. We worked different hours - so he had the time to do it while I was at work - but I went through the hell of the $5,000 lawyer bill, and sitting all day in a room with his lawyer and my lawyer going over property - that was $1,000 day. It was even painful. But, there were no kids.<P>Please don't use (if you are) the divorce papers, just to get him to come back. I know it is hard on you because the kids are asking and bugging - when's daddy coming home - <P>We don't know some of the things - but what Plan A did you do for how long? Marriages can be saved - remember A's are only a symptom of what is wrong with the marriage - and that happened in my case - I don't know why my H just could not come talk to me about what he wanted - now I see EN's in marriage - but that was only until this year - but we made it through the hell of 2000. My H still isn't meeting my needs, but I am not going to give up so easily. We are still working on our marriage.<P>Remember sometimes it takes alot of hard work. Do you want to give up on him, and let her have him?<BR>Did you do any LB's? <P>You just sound as if "we" still need to communicate some more. You don't sound as if you are convinced, and you sound very defensive and very hurt, and in alot of pain. <P>Do you love him? aftershock

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by worthatry:<BR><B>Now, what the h*** are YOU thinking? Do you want your marriage or not?WAT</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>at this point, no i don't want it anymore. there have been to many times he's given me false hope that the trust has been smashed to bits. i've reached a point where i just can't open up to him anymore.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by worthatry:<BR><B>If you're in Plan B, I think you need to stick to it. There is no such thing as Plan B with a twist. Divorce is where you go when your Plan B fails, and nine months is really on the short side for this whole episode. It sounds like your Plan B has some holes if you're still on the roller coaster - the whole point of Plan B is to get you off the coaster - to insulate you from the waffling, to prevent where you now find yourself - frustrated and ready to quit.WAT</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>his physical affair has been going on for 9 months but the emotional part has been going on for more than a year. all this started the spring of 2000 when he met the ow. i didn't know about his attraction to her until last summer and that's when the sh*t hit the fan.<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by worthatry:<BR><B>I'm sorry if I've misunderstood something, but I think you need to cut off all communication if you're really in Plan B, then give the affair its chance to implode like you know it will.WAT</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>i stopped the full blown plan a shortly after christmas then did the scattered plan a along with letting out my rage up until last week. i really thought we would reconcile at christmas then he backed out and spent the holidays with her because he wasn't ready to leave her. that shot me over the edge. then, in march when we discussed the settlement, it looked like we were going to reconcile again but no, he still wasn't ready to leave her. finally around easter, we went on a business trip together and we spent the weekend together (nothing physical happened). that was probably the most emotionally intense weekend we've had. the first half of the trip there was so much tension but the last half was incredible. our bond really showed itself. well guess what, he still didn't leave her. i'm tired of being played a fool. he's living with the ow and the only time i get to see him is when his schedule allows. i am not the ow, i am the wife and i'm just plain sick and tired of all this crap. to me, the bottom line is he wants the best of both worlds. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by after shock:<BR><B>Please don't use (if you are) the divorce papers, just to get him to come back. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>no i'm not using the divorce as a way to get him back. originally he wanted the divorce and i begged to just have a separation. but after all that has happened i want out of this marriage and i'm proceeding with the divorce. my kids and i deserve a helluva lot better than this.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by after shock:<BR><B>We don't know some of the things - but what Plan A did you do for how long?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>i did plan a for a couple of months but stopped right after the holidays. see my response to wat above. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by after shock:<BR><B>Remember sometimes it takes alot of hard work. Do you want to give up on him, and let her have him? Did you do any LB's?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>yes, i know it takes a great deal of work but all plan a did was put him on the fence. he loved it when i did plan a but that wasn't enough for him to leave her. i think when i did plan a, he was in heaven because not only did the ow meet his needs but i did as well. he got his cake and ate it too. not doing anymore of plan a. and of course once i stopped plan a, there was major love busting from both sides. what he's been complaining about lately is that i'm not being nice to him. he says that really helps him when i treat him well. um, my response to that is "been there, done that and it didn't work one bit." no more being ms. nice.<P>as for giving him up and letting her have him, which wrapping paper and ribbon color would she like him in? my stbx is no prize to be won in my eyes. he left the marriage and family to be with her, never giving us a chance to fix things and he knows it. he knows that our marriage really wasn't that bad, and just last week he said that our relationship could still be saved. my question to him was if he thought it could be saved, why aren't we fixing it? he said that's a good question and needs to think about it. well, he can think all he wants but i'm shutting the door. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by after shock:<BR><B>You just sound as if "we" still need to communicate some more. You don't sound as if you are convinced, and you sound very defensive and very hurt, and in alot of pain. Do you love him? aftershock</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>i agree with most of what you wrote. i am extremely hurt and defensive right now. but, i am convinced the divorce is the best thing for me in that i can finally have some finality to this whole mess. that's not to say that i'll be emotionally healed but at least i can move on with my life at full speed. when i take inventory of my life, outside of my relationship, i have everything. i have 2 wonderful kids, the best group of friends and family anyone could ever ask for and i've found myself again. i'm young, well-educated, a professional and healthy, and enjoy my career. it took a long time to get myself to this point and i just feel that waiting for my h will just be for nothing. <P>do i still love him? yes and no. i love the memory of the man i thought i knew and married. i don't love the person he has become.<BR>

Wow CP, I have almost all of these same thoughts about every other day. My H does not deserve me, this "new man" is not worth the pain and aggravation he is putting me through. I know that and I hear it every day from my friends/family! But my real H, the one I married, he IS worth it. <P>By me doing plan B, I am hoping to get some of that man back, or at least a better man than he is now. My kids and I deserve to know that I have done all I can.<P>Do you feel as though you've done all you can? If you have, god bless, you have put up a good fight! If you have any doubts, don't do it.<P>From what little I know of your story, I think a real plan B could help you. If you don't feel you've given it your all ,try this for a while. You get the same effects without the finality of divorce. And you know the beauty of plan B? When/if he decides to come back, you can still say you want a divorce, that it is too late. But the difference is, NO REGRETS. At that point, you do it because you really have no more love for him, not because you are angry and hurt.<P>And if you're lucky enough to still want him back, well, then good luck! <P>Let us know what you decide...

confusedpuppy -<BR>Thanks for writing back so soon.<P>I guess all I can say at this point is: Someday he will look back and realize what he lost, but then it will too late. Sorry you will have to deal with visitation - <P>What is your favorite color? We'll wrap him up for you. Guess you can be happy that she has him - the b * * * *. I can't give any warm fuzzys to women who are with married men - this is one story that turned out differently. My viewpoint is that married men are "hands off".<P>Best to you - keep us posted. Let us know how you are doing. aftershock

Hi Confusedpuppy:<P>You know I can understand completely how you feel but I also know that you and I can never completely understand how the WH lost in all this mess feels. It's easy to say "Oh, he's just having his cake and eating it too." but that's just a pat answer. There are no easy answers to this mess....just some basic principles to be applied and hope that they acheive the right objectives.<P>But how long and to what extent the principles will be effective is in part up to the WH and believe it or not up to you...if you don't believe in what you are doing...then you don't have a chance and you might as well give up and get your divorce. It's easy to get frustrated and want to move on...get out of the limbo...and get on with your life.<BR>But you have to realize how totally your life is going to be changed...and how you probably will not be able to return after you've made this decision. <P>I don't see anything unusual in your situation...many BS have been in similar situations...and their marriage has been restored....the problem is that you have not been consistent...and you have undervalued the results you have obtained...sure, he's not come to you begging to come home and asking for forgiveness....but few WH do....but he has started the process of waivering...and gradually breaking away from OW....don't underestimate how hard this is for WH....it may seem simple to us but it's not to them.<P>My WH left in May of one year, was with OW til August, then began the gradual process of wanting to let her go... we went away in September for a weekend, but it took him until December to let her go...and then it was only because of a car wreck she had....but it gave him an opportunity to break away and he took it. These OW can have a hold on WH that is stronger then we can comprehend....and like an addiction it does take a great force of will to separate themselve from that hold. <P>If you let go now, you are probably releasing the only thing keeping him from being buried in the OW relationship...like being pulled under in the quicksand.<BR>If however, you continue and either reinforce the Plan A you did for a while and then go into Plan B if he still hesitates or go ahead and go into Plan B now, then you may give him the imputus he needs to force himself to make the break...but he's got to know that he's coming back to something. <P>You said it yourself...he's afraid that nothing will have changed...and that's a legitimate fear...have you shown him that you have changed and are willing to meet the ENs he found in OW. We BS sometimes get lost in the hurt and pain and fail to see how we contributed to the situation....but blaming doesn't fix anything. <P>You are so far ahead of lots of others on this site...your WS is waffling...don't throw that away...take the time to see if your marriage can't still be save....you'll be divorce a long time...another few months can't make much difference.<P>Faye<BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited June 24, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR><B>But my real H, the one I married, he IS worth it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>yes, the man i did marry and loved with all my heart is worth it. i just don't see that person in my stbx anymore. it's very, very sad. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR><B>By me doing plan B, I am hoping to get some of that man back, or at least a better man than he is now. My kids and I deserve to know that I have done all I can.<P>Do you feel as though you've done all you can? If you have, god bless, you have put up a good fight! If you have any doubts, don't do it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>my reason for plan b isn't to get him back anymore. it's for me to separate myself from him and this situation emotionally and mentally. i still have a lot of work to do on myself (i think it's a lifelong process) and it's easier to focus on me without having contact with him. <P>it's impossible to work on a relationship when there's another person involved, you're not living with your spouse and spending time with him/her, and when your're spouse doesn't want to work on the marriage. so yes, with all these impediments, i did the best i could. the only thing i haven't done was work on the relationship full force with him (but again, that's was never an option given to me). <P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR><B>From what little I know of your story, I think a real plan B could help you. If you don't feel you've given it your all ,try this for a while. You get the same effects without the finality of divorce. And you know the beauty of plan B? When/if he decides to come back, you can still say you want a divorce, that it is too late. But the difference is, NO REGRETS. At that point, you do it because you really have no more love for him, not because you are angry and hurt.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>before starting plan b, i told him that if he wanted time with me then we could share the whole summer together, he would just have to end it with the ow. we'd have the chance to date each other, get to know each other again and rediscover why we got together in the first place. we could take trips, do fun things, have the romantic evenings, all of that. it would be time for us, to work on us by being with each other and also getting the help we needed. if after all this we just didn't have hope (highly unlikely considering all the love units that would have been deposited and being educated in relationships through counseling plus the fact that there's still love between us), then at least we gave it a fair shake. and all this would have been without the kids here this summer. did he bite? of course not. <P>so here's how my summer is panning out. the kids are away at their grandparents for the whole summer (3 months) and having a blast from what i hear (i talk to them everyday). they left two weeks ago. i'll be away from home for about a month - 3 weeks to the east coast on business with side trips to europe on the weekends and then having a week off to visit the kids. so the change of scenery will be refreshing and the time away will be therapeutic. <P>his summer is just with the ow. he has no w or kids to talk to or visit because we're not around. how's that for plan b? a little taste of life without family. pretty lonely if you ask me.

Hey, you were posting about the same time I was...but I think this summer with the kids away and you gone would be an ideal situation to impliment your Plan B very effectively. They do miss us when we're not around you know. For instance, OW told me on the phone one day that all WH did for 2 months was sit around and cry at night because he missed us....I never heard a word about that from him...so you don't really always know what's going on in their mind.<P>Faye

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by after shock:<BR><B>I guess all I can say at this point is: Someday he will look back and realize what he lost, but then it will too late. Sorry you will have to deal with visitation -</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>hi after shock,<P>whether he regrets it or not, isn't a concern of mine anymore. it's his life, his choice and he needs to deal with it. as for visitation, i have a break this summer. please read the last paragraph of my response to hurtbyhubby. i'm a free bird this summer. :-)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by after shock:<BR><B>What is your favorite color? We'll wrap him up for you. Guess you can be happy that she has him - the b * * * *. I can't give any warm fuzzys to women who are with married men - this is one story that turned out differently. My viewpoint is that married men are "hands off".</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>can we wrap him up in red, white and blue? just in time for independence day. LOL<P>like i said, he's no prize and from a woman's perspective, any woman who goes after married men is also lacking. so i guess they're a good pair. did i ever mention the reasons/excuses he gave me for not leaving her? they are doozies.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buffy:<BR><B>Hey, you were posting about the same time I was...but I think this summer with the kids away and you gone would be an ideal situation to impliment your Plan B very effectively. They do miss us when we're not around you know. For instance, OW told me on the phone one day that all WH did for 2 months was sit around and cry at night because he missed us....I never heard a word about that from him...so you don't really always know what's going on in their mind.<P>Faye</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>hi faye,<P>i guess we were posting at the same time. so did your h ever come back to you? how long were you married and do you have kids?<P>

ConfusedPuppy,<P>I think WAT, among others such as my self misunderstood your reasons for being here at marriage builders.com I assumed you were looking for some last ditch help. Hadn't realized you've all ready moved on, and got those papers in the process because you aren't going to work on your marriage.<P>Generally when people post on the infidelity boards it's to get some advice and help. Plan B is supposed to help protect (what little / remaining) love you have for your spouse. I'm sorry this didn't work for you. I can make sense of your post. As a (WS) his comments are some of the things i've said in the past as well. My wife filed on me as well. I never intended to file on her. As I knew I would be returning (deep down) I had those feelings. Took me a while to get there, but I made it.<P>I gave even less hope to my wife at times. You stated (He only has his clothes at her place.). I took this a step further and gathered up quite a few boxes of my belongings. I also told her time and time again ("I wanted a divorce") I never did anything about it. Again I waited for her to make the move. Justify what I was doing, so I had her to blame. <P>If she had filed a lot earlier. I probably would not be here right now talking to you. I would probably be living a life somewhere else, where I wasn't happy. You also stated He's been telling me that he is trying to work his way back home. but is not at the point where he can leave the ow) This is typical. Even I went through this piece. I wanted the car to slow down before I opened the door and jumped out. It's not an easy thing to do. Just to end it all. It took time to get there, it takes time to get out.<P>At first I was reluctant to send a no contact letter. I did it the second night of (really talking) with my wife. She had asked me for this, at the start of our phone call. I said okay (with hesitance). <P>Finally, I made the leap. Sent the letter later that night. It was easy writing it. But clicking that "Send" button was difficult. I just said "Awe to hell with it" (My friends words popped in my head. "She'll be nothing but pain in the future to you, regardless of your current situation with your wife.) Clicked send, and the phone calls, and emails flooded in from xow later.<P>I got emails like "Whats going on???" and "If you ever loved me, you would talk to me at least" and "I always gave you a chance in person to know how I felt" and so on. I even got a phone call. Where I hung up immediately where xow said "_____, tell me whats going on please..". Still later yet I got emails (Which she tried to tell me, my wife would want me to atleast let her know what was going on). How sad I thought. (She can't and isn't respecting my wishes.) <P>Oh and lets not forget, she came to the board here and posted a "The other side of the story" post in my own thread. While personally I really don't care it's not my side vs. hers. It's just simply. Don't contact me, and I felt that was yet another lame attempt to push some buttons with her behavior. Friends came to my defense on the board. I was happy for that. <P>Moral of the story here. Is it's not an easy task to end an affair quickly. It takes time to get off the merry-go-round.<P>How much more (hope) can he give you?<BR><B><BR>he doesn't want to move his things out of the house (he only has his clothes at the ow's place), our finances are still together and he gives me all his paychecks, he's been telling me that he is trying to work his way back home but is not at the point where he can leave the ow. he does not want a divorce at all, will not sign anything and does not have a lawyer.<BR></B><P>If I even gave that much hope to my wife. She never would have filed on me. Your decisions are your decisions. I can't tell you how much to take, how much to listen to, and what to do. I assumed you were here for help on making your marriage work. "Hence you posted in infidelity and not d/d boards" Then posting a message that looks like you wanted a last ditch effort help. <P>Pay close attention to (hurtbyhubby)'s words. Particularly:<BR><B><BR>Do you feel as though you've done all you can? If you have, god bless, you have put up a good fight! If you have any doubts, don't do it.<BR></B><P>Take care of yourself, and your children. God bless.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers, Hugs, and Strength from both of us. Things do and can get better. Keep hoping, learning, and growing. Take care of yourself.<P>[H] and Knewjie<p>[This message has been edited by [H] (edited June 24, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buffy:<BR><B>It's easy to get frustrated and want to move on...get out of the limbo...and get on with your life.<BR>But you have to realize how totally your life is going to be changed...and how you probably will not be able to return after you've made this decision.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>i've thought long and hard about how my life has been, is currently going and how it will be, not only for myself but obviously for my kids. it has taken a great deal to get to this point. i've asked him numerous times why he can't leave her and the reasons he gave just made my head spin. <BR> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buffy:<BR><B>I don't see anything unusual in your situation...many BS have been in similar situations...and their marriage has been restored....the problem is that you have not been consistent...and you have undervalued the results you have obtained...sure, he's not come to you begging to come home and asking for forgiveness....but few WH do....but he has started the process of waivering...and gradually breaking away from OW....don't underestimate how hard this is for WH....it may seem simple to us but it's not to them.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>imo, affairs are pretty much the same in the way they start and the thick fog/middle of it all but it's the ending that can be different. one scenario is the ws reconciles with their spouse. the other is that the ws and op stay together (but the odds of them sustaining the relationship are extremely low). then there's the last and not often heard of (at least from what i've read) where the ws wants neither the ow or spouse. so to your point, my situation is not unique and i do agree it's difficult to separate from the ow because it is like an addiction. but at the same time, having him make a request that i wait it out while he continues to live with her and to treat him well this whole time is wanting his cake and eating it too. my suggestion was that he leave her, live on his own and seek help to iron out his issues and work on himself. it's not to come back to me and work on the marriage. if after that time, he decides he wants to be with her, fine. at least he came to that decision without any influence from her or me. on the other hand, if he wants to come home then it would be up to me if i take him. again, he would come to that conclusion on his own. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buffy:<BR><B>My WH left in May of one year, was with OW til August, then began the gradual process of wanting to let her go... we went away in September for a weekend, but it took him until December to let her go...and then it was only because of a car wreck she had....but it gave him an opportunity to break away and he took it. These OW can have a hold on WH that is stronger then we can comprehend....and like an addiction it does take a great force of will to separate themselve from that hold.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>so why did you take him back? is he a better man now and is your marriage better? what were your h's reasons for staying with the ow and why did he want to come back? what made him wake up and smell the coffee?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buffy:<BR><B>You said it yourself...he's afraid that nothing will have changed...and that's a legitimate fear...have you shown him that you have changed and are willing to meet the ENs he found in OW. We BS sometimes get lost in the hurt and pain and fail to see how we contributed to the situation....but blaming doesn't fix anything. <P>You are so far ahead of lots of others on this site...your WS is waffling...don't throw that away...take the time to see if your marriage can't still be save....you'll be divorce a long time...another few months can't make much difference.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>i told him flat out that i can't meet any of his needs unless he opens up and lets me. i laid it all out for him how we could proceed if he wanted to come back. it's been all given to him on a silver platter but he's refused it. i don't think there's anything more i can do without having to lose myself all over again. answer this, do you really think he wants to come back and he's just not stringing me along?

CP, please forgive, but I think Buffy, H and I all sensed the same thing from your posting, that you are very hurt and angry and looking for support. You don't sound convinced that giving him the papers is the right approach, you mention plan B and divorce as if you are contemplating WHICH one to do. Perhaps I am reading between the lines, if so, I apologize.<P>I am with Buffy. 3 more months of a true plan B, absolutely no contact (which should be easy with you and the kids away), and you LET HIM KNOW that is what you are doing, I think that may give you the answers you seek. You will have worked on yourself, as you say, and given him a decent enough plan B to get his sh*t together. <P>But, like everyone else, I wish you the best if (as you say) you have done it all and you were just posting here to fill us in on your decision. <P><<hugs>><BR>HbH

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by [H]:<BR><B>ConfusedPuppy,<P>I think WAT, among others such as my self misunderstood your reasons for being here at marriage builders.com I assumed you were looking for some last ditch help. Hadn't realized you've all ready moved on, and got those papers in the process because you aren't going to work on your marriage. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>hi h,<P>sorry for the confusion (hence my screen name). anyway, i posted here because i wanted to get some perspective on what it is my h was thinking. the reason i'm moving forward with this divorce is because he hasn't shown me anything to subtantiate his words. actions speak louder than words.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by [H]:<BR><B>Generally when people post on the infidelity boards it's to get some advice and help. Plan B is supposed to help protect (what little / remaining) love you have for your spouse. I'm sorry this didn't work for you. I can make sense of your post. As a (WS) his comments are some of the things i've said in the past as well. My wife filed on me as well. I never intended to file on her. As I knew I would be returning (deep down) I had those feelings. Took me a while to get there, but I made it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>how did you get to that point? and how did you know you would be coming home but still continue with the affair? my stbx recently told me that in his heart he knows we'll be together again. huh? maybe i'm just so mixed up in all of this i can't see straight anymore and anything he says goes into one ear and out the other.<P>so i'll open up a can of worms, in your opinion do you think my h is telling the truth? what is it he's trying to work through that he just can't leave the ow? he knows our marriage is in it's final days. your insight would be much appreciated.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR><B>CP, please forgive, but I think Buffy, H and I all sensed the same thing from your posting, that you are very hurt and angry and looking for support. You don't sound convinced that giving him the papers is the right approach, you mention plan B and divorce as if you are contemplating WHICH one to do. Perhaps I am reading between the lines, if so, I apologize.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>yes i am hurt, angry and looking for support. you're right there. as for the plan b and divorce, i wrote [H] my response to why i'm doing the d. and no need to apologize, please feel free to read between the lines, in the margins, headers and footers. sometimes bs can also be in a fog of their own and need other's to help them see the light. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hurtbyhubby:<BR><B>I am with Buffy. 3 more months of a true plan B, absolutely no contact (which should be easy with you and the kids away), and you LET HIM KNOW that is what you are doing, I think that may give you the answers you seek. You will have worked on yourself, as you say, and given him a decent enough plan B to get his sh*t together.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>okay, if i do this full blown plan b without the divorce, why should i tell him? what good will that do? i think my h and i are the biggest mules on this planet, which is probably why we're in this mess in the first place.<P>let me ask you this, did your h ever tell you that he doesn't find you attractive but is extremely attracted to the ow?<P>

Hey, are we rubbing off on you? <P>You should tell him, because then he will know you are not contacting him ON PURPOSE. WAY DIFFERENT than just not contacting him. Think about it. If you know somebody doesn't want to talk to you, what's the normal response? To go talk to them - but he can't with plan B, so he'll brood over it. With a true plan B you won't have to deal with him until he chooses to not be with OW and to re-commit to the marriage, which is really want you want. Win/Win.<P>Just whatever you do, don't give in like I did (my H was so miffed that I wouldn't speak to him he tried everything in the book and I finally waivered). I am now in plan B AGAIN, it's much harder the 2nd time through.<P>HA! No, my H never said I was unattractive, he is actually still very much attracted to me. However, he did tell me that when he goes to counseling, it's to start a new life with OW - not me. That he doesn't love me, he only loves her now. I can never make him as happy as she makes him. His life is much happier without me in it, should I go on? I can let you listen to the 2-minute voicemail he left me at work that pretty much berates me to death and made me feel 1mm tall. <P>He's just trying to get to you. WS's will say WHATEVER it is that will hurt us the most, many times it's just an extension of what they are feeling. They hurt so make us hurt. We are the closest thing to them so many times it's like they try to make us an extension of the way they are feeling. It sucks, it's totally rude, inconsiderate and wrong - but they do it anyway!<BR>