During times like these, I often wonder exactly why I am aubjecting myself to this torture.....it has been over a year since D-day, H is here, trying to make it work, yet I can't help but feel that he doesn't really have a clue about what his A has done to us; what it has done to me.<P>I can't help but feel that it will never again be right between us. And, frankly, some of the posts I've read on Recovery haven't exactly been encouraging.....how long does this unhappiness go on?<P>Since I can't really tell right now why I am still here (my marriage is still very unfulfilling), I was curious to know why some of you decided to stay around and try to work it out. Is it because of undying love for your spouse? Is it because of the kids? Is it fear of being alone? Is it refusal to lose your spouse to someone else? Is it religious convictions? Is it a simple belief in the institution of marriage?<P>If it is undying love for your spouse, how have you managed to give yourself freely again to someone who so clearly did not care about your feelings?<P>Someone posted on a thread of mine the other day that only I could know if I could live with what he's done. Some people can't, I guess. How do you know if you can live with it or if you can't? And if I can't, what does this say about me?<P>Now, over a year later after vacillating back and forth between "Yes, I guess I can live with it", and "No, I don't think I can possibly live with it", I find myself as lost as ever.<P>Any thoughts?<P>Help, I'm sinking fast!<P>B<BR>

Are you in counseling with a therapist who has good marriage counseling skills? Someone who uses some type of cognitive therapy and has helped the two of you create a "recovery plan"? If not, then, that is likely part of the reason why you are still so unhappy.<P>I truly believe that counseling with the right therapist is essential to navigating through the mine field of the marriage after an affair. The right therapist will help you clear that mine field so that you can dance through it whenever you wish... <P>I am not in recovery - wish I was - so you may feel that my contribution is less important. But I have seen enough in my nearly 3 years here to see the patterns - what is successful and what is not...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

B,<P>For me it is all those reasons. I don't know how you can tell if you can live with it or not. Our marriage counselor asked me for a time frame. One year. If I don't feel better in one year, time to re-evaluate. I see for you it has already been one year. Do you know what it would take for your H to show you he knows how this affected you? That is also where I am in this. Sometimes my H thinks he is doing what he needs to be doing and I don't feel the same way. He was telling me just this morning how he thinks he is doing all the right things and gave me a list. The things that were on the list are things that, to me he should've been doing all along. Before the infidelity. I am going to think hard and long about this so that I can give him something to work on. I have told him that when I get down and very emotional I need for him to come and hug me and tell me he is sorry. That he knows that he has hurt me. But this never happens. He usually just gets mad at me. This is very upsetting. Sorry I haven't answered your questions.<P>NM

bound,<P>What a complicated question, and a good one.<P>I feel like I need to answer it for myself. Why am I doing this?<P>I still love my wife, although I'm fresh out of reasons to love her. I do think Plan B gets you over that.<P>In the long run, I've seen so many divorces that don't heal a thing, they don't solve a thing. I realize that there's as much pain on the call it quits road as there is on the road I'm on.<P>If divorce comes, I really want to know I did everything I could, that I didn't just give up, but that I gave it my very best.<P>I believe in marriage.<P>I believe that even as adults my children will be better off with a mother and father who are together and love each other than with parents who can't stand each other (which 90% of the time happens in divorce).<P>There were times I was not there for my WS. I want to make up for that a little.<P>I don't want to be alone, although I am and have been for a long time.<P>I don't want to have to footnote all my good memories with "yes, but it ended with divorce."<P>I would like to see my WS come out of the fog and regain her faith.<P>I think that the experience of trying to work this out will make me a better man in the end than just calling it quits.<P>I valued the relationship we once had and it was good enough to not want to throw it away.<P>I hope this helps. It helped me to write it. Thanks for giving me the chance.<P>Ish

Terri:<P>Thanks for your reply. We've already been through two marriage counselors....the first one just plain sucked at being a counselor. The second one was too hung up on our "family of origin" issues; he was convinced that every problem that one has is because of those issues. To answer your question, neither therapist even attempted to give us a "recovery plan", so perhaps you are right; perhaps we need to find a good one! There seem to be a lot of quacks out there! Geez!<P>BTW, I'm sorry that you are not in recovery if that's what you want. However, your input is just as important to me as anyone else's. THanks.<P>B.<BR>

NewMe:<P>I appreciate your reply. I know oh, so well about H not wanting to see me cry, not wanting to feel the pain he has caused me. I suppose that's why he gets mad when you ask for comfort from him. It probably makes him feel horrible to know that he's put you through this, so he'd rather not deal with it. My H told me in the early stages that I could not cry in front of him, that it withdrew love units! What an [censored]!<P>Anyway, best of luck to you in your endeavors. I hope you are able to get through this better than I seem to have!<P>Blessings,<BR>B<BR>

Ishmael:<P>Thank you for your insight. You are right about everything you said; you are also very wise. And I want you to know that I HAVE become a better woman just by going through this ordeal. I've learned so many things about myself and relationships in general that I might not have learned as early. Life is funny, that you have to endure pain and suffering to experience joy???????<P>I guess one thing I haven't mentioned is that we do not have children. So that issue is not one that we have to contend with. I suppose I'm being extremely selfish right now, but I'm just tired of being strong!<P>I agree with you wholeheartedly about wanting to give it everything you've got. That's what I've been doing for the last year + (I think.....sometimes it seems that I have to ask myself if I really AM giving it everything I've got....). I could not consciously walk away from my marriage a year ago without at least trying to make it work. I'm just losing faith & hope. I'm just tired of being unhappy! <P>In the end, I know that I am ultimately responsible for my happiness and that I cannot entrust it entirely to someone else. <P>I hope that everything works out for you....I've read several of your posts these past few days, and understand where you are. <P>Thanks for sharing your thoughts.<P>blessings,<BR>B<BR>

I am still a newbie here compared to some of the rest of you, D-day was 6 weeks ago. But here's why I'm doing this.<P>I still love my husband with all my heart and I know he still loves me (maybe not as much as he would like to). We've been together for 16 of my 33 years so I can't imagine not having him in my life. (Although we had a few break ups while we were dating, we always ended up back together.) <P>My daughters, ages 2 and 5, deserve to wake up everyday and see the 2 people who love them and brought them into this world. They deserve the financial stability of a 2 parent home. They deserve the emotional stability of a 2 parent home. After being a single parent for only 6 weeks I understand why God intended for children to have 2 parents.<P>And although my H says he has not been happy for awhile, I don't think he has tried to be happy. You don't go out and find happiness, you CHOOSE to be happy. I don't think a divorce will make him happy.<P>My H feels I would never be able to forgive an forget. I told him I can forgive and that I don't want to forget. I want this to be a reminder that we need to work at having a happy marriage, we need to do the maintenance to keep things good. And I am sooooooo ready to forgive. I feel that if he came back and gave our marriage a chance that would be all I need to forgive him.<P>Heck

Heck:<P>Thanks for your wisdom.....you know, you hit the nail on the head, honey! You don't go out and search for happiness, you CHOOSE to be happy. Thank You!<P>I hope things go the way you want them to.<P>Thanks & blessings<BR>B<BR>

heckofagal: i am also very new to this situation - about 8 weeks ago for me - my h feels that i should never be able to forgive him -- he claims that he couldn't forgive me if it happened to him. i believe that by forgiving him so easily he thinks it isn't earned or something weird like that -- i think as you do that my daughters deserve 2 parents, both financially and emotionally. he has been out of the house for about 3 weeks and single parenthood is the pits (as you probably know) visitation makes me ill - he does the fun things and i do the daily maintenance and tend to the not-so-fun things. i am currently of the opinion that he is setting the pace for forgiveness - he is in the process (i think) of trying to forgive himself and if he gets to that level, he will be able to accept my forgiveness. as for forgetting, i don't think that is even humanly possible - we can attempt to keep it as far back as possible and near enough to remember that these relationships do take lots of maintenance. keep me updated on your situation and the progress you two make. are you currently in counseling? we are (by his request)--i'm not sure what his goal is but counseling surely can't hurt and will likely help us to understand how we got here and how to avoid this in future relationships (preferrably our own, but i am not sure)<BR>

Hi there Bound,<P> I know what you mean about all of the counselors out there, we had one that wanted to hypnotize us! <P>We have been in recovery for 2 yrs. and at the one year mark I really felt like you do. We are so much happier now. Have you considered counseling with Steve H? I would make appointments with him and it really helped me formulate a plan. Most of the times my H didn't join me, so you can do it alone. He is REALLY helpful.<P><BR>He pointed out to me that it's not the amount of time in recovery it's what is going on during that time. He claims the best way to go about it is with a PLAN.... <P>It sure couldn't HURT at this point , I remember well how I felt at the one year mark. LU

To Wife and Heckofagal:<P>Your H's are saying they don't think you'll ever be able to forgive them because that's the easiest way out for them right now. It's a foggy justification for him that moves the blame to you. (If we can't work this out, it's because you couldn't forgive me, not because of what I did) He doesn't mean it. My H said EXACTLY the same thing! <P>I would lean toward what Wife is saying, do not forgive too quickly! Doing so will only make him believe that he can do it again. But on the other hand, try not to find yourself in my position where forgiveness seems so far away.....<P>I just have to remember that when we forgive, we do it for ourselves, not for WS. We forgive because we deserve to live a life unclouded by bitterness or unresolved rage. We don't forgive just to get our WS back.....is that truly forgiveness?<P>blessings,<BR>B<P><BR>

Thanks Lu!<P>I know you are right. It just seems like time drags on....and on.....and on....I think I am going to make an appointment with Steve H. I'm a little wary of the counselors out there! I'm truly convinced that our last one was just trying to make us believe that our whole lives had been nothing so he could keep us coming back and billing us $125 an hr!<P>At any rate, thank you for your support. It's nice to know that there is still hope for us.<P>blessings<BR>Bound<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bound for better days:<BR><B>During times like these, I often wonder exactly why I am aubjecting myself to this torture.....it has been over a year since D-day, H is here, trying to make it work, yet I can't help but feel that he doesn't really have a clue about what his A has done to us; what it has done to me.<P>I can't help but feel that it will never again be right between us. And, frankly, some of the posts I've read on Recovery haven't exactly been encouraging.....how long does this unhappiness go on?<P>Since I can't really tell right now why I am still here (my marriage is still very unfulfilling), I was curious to know why some of you decided to stay around and try to work it out. Is it because of undying love for your spouse? Is it because of the kids? Is it fear of being alone? Is it refusal to lose your spouse to someone else? Is it religious convictions? Is it a simple belief in the institution of marriage?<P>If it is undying love for your spouse, how have you managed to give yourself freely again to someone who so clearly did not care about your feelings?<P>Someone posted on a thread of mine the other day that only I could know if I could live with what he's done. Some people can't, I guess. How do you know if you can live with it or if you can't? And if I can't, what does this say about me?<P>Now, over a year later after vacillating back and forth between "Yes, I guess I can live with it", and "No, I don't think I can possibly live with it", I find myself as lost as ever.<P>Any thoughts?<P>Help, I'm sinking fast!<P>B</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>You sound much like my W when she decided to to commit adultery. I don't like the other word because it minimizes the gravity that you describe in your post.<P>Why I stay: Because I want to show my W the love that God wants her to experience first hand through me. It is much more than for religious reasons. The closer I get to God the more He reveals to me that religion is our (mankind's) attempt to get closer to God. Thus, I don't really call it religious. Getting in a deeper relationship with Go shows me with precise clarity that the way we look at things allows us to create the pain in our lives and in the lives of those we love.<P>I am merely following Jesus's example. Does that mean I won't experience pain? No. Jesus said that we would experience a portion of the pain He experienced when He walked here on earth. Just think on how Jesus experienced the pain you, me, everyone on this board, and the entire world from beginning of time to judgement day. That is a enormous amount of pain when compared to our small amount.<P>Does it ever go away? No, but is lessens with time. He said He would give us the understanding to have joy in the midst of the pain. I am a living testimony to that.<BR><P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

Thanks, Rob....<P>I know you are right, the pain will never go away, but it does lessen with time. I am trying to stay close to my higher power....<P>

bfbd,<P>Let me preface this by saying we are not in the recovery stage either, but to me it quite simple.<P>1. I love my W.<P>2. I remember how happy we once were.<P>3. I believe if we can make the changes necessary, our marriage can be better than ever.<P>4. The pain, unhappiness and loneliness I'm feeling right now will not be cured by getting divorced. <P>5. I believe in my W!!!!<P>Call me naive, but that's my two cents.<P>sad dad<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited July 01, 2001).]

I have often wondered the same thing but then I remember the history, the relationships, the memories, what we've built together, our children, the beauty of our love (that only I believe still exists) and of course my vow to maintain for better or for worse. <P>BS's become the stronger person and ultimately rise above the deceit. It's amazing the change I've seen in my myself since I've decided to battle the most difficult fight of my life. <P>I wish you luck in your struggle. Please don't give up.<P> <P>

to love honor and cherish<BR>for better or worse<BR>richer or poorer<BR>sickness and in health<BR>forsaking all others til death do us part.<P><BR>well those are my reasons anyhow<P><BR>

Bound,<P>Thanks for the kind words.<P>I'm at about the same time frame you are in this whole thing. And I feel very much the same way. I'm just so darn pooped. The first and only time I went skiing, before I had learned enough to do anything on the darn skis, I thought, "Well, I paid a lot of money for this lift ticket, I'm going to use it." So up I went to the top of mountain in Breckenridge, ID. I took the beginners path, 5 miles. but no steep slopes. Soon I discovered I was the only beginner stupid enough to be on that trail. In 6 hours, I saw only one other human being. I must have fallen 1000 times. The temp was about -20 Cel. and I became so tired that I really almost just laid down and went to sleep. I feel exactly like that now, only emotionally. When I got back to the "ski center" or whatever they call it, I fell for the last time right in front of this girl/woman (I never got her name), who looked down at me for a second or two and then kneeled down and said, "Hey are you OK?" I said, "I don't think I can get up again." She called for help. I just needed some coffee and Tylonol. I felt so dumb, to stupid, but I remember it as one of the best days of my life.<P>I too hope that everything works out for you. I'm convinced that this is one of the most difficult emotional ordeals that people can go through. That's why, now that I'm going through it, I can't understand or imagine why it's so blasted common! I know where you are coming from and you are in my prayers, blessings to you.<P>BTW, I think this was a great thread.<P>Take care of yourself,<P>Ish<BR>

Bound, Thank you for posting your question. I was asking myself "why" today - I certainly needed to read everyone's answers. <P>Everyone, thank you for your answers! <P>I am new to post, but have been reading for 6 weeks, since my H first left. I don't want to give my story right now. It is so nice to have a place like this to support each other and learn. It's very strange - yet somewhat comforting in a way - to read your own story, that's happening in someone else life somewhere accross the country.<P>My reasons for holding on?? I guess I agree with most everyone. The institution of marriage. The vows. Afraid of being alone. Refusing to accept rejection. I still love my H. I want to be the strong one - to hold on when it most seems I should throw in the towel. I remember the good times, and I believe there will be many more. I believe God is working on both of us to make us better, which will make our marriage better.<P>I stood by my husband through many trials (you know.... life) for 11 years. And I refuse to stand by passively and let miscommunication, a bad choice (H's A), and his confusion destroy our marriage. I can pray, work on myself, and hold on to hope that he will wake up from his fog.<P>Blessings to all,<BR>Faith1