I am new to this site, but I really like what I have read. I am hoping some of you can help me with my dilemma:<P>I am recently married (2nd time) to a divorced man. We both have custody of our children (my 2, his 1). His ex-wife is a raging Psycho who has made my life a nightmare at times. Prior to our engagement, I found out that he had slept with his ex-wife twice (two months apart) while we were dating, and I thought, committed. He seems sincerely sorry and has not done anything since that would be upsetting; he is trying to get my trust back. But here is the dilemma:<P>From what I have read here, an important component of recovery is for your spouse to have NO contact with the 'lover'--and that's not possible here! We see her when she picks up and/or drops off their child....call her child a couple of times a week....I can't escape her!! Could this be why now, 8 months later, I still think about it every day and cannot forget? I don't know what to do. I love my husband, but this is really eating me up. Any advice?

Is it possible for you to be the one that answers the door when she comes to get the child? Also, if you have caller ID let the child or yourself answer when she calls. This would minimize contact with the ex.

Another thing that works is for all contact with her to come from you and your H as a team, a strong team. <P>For example. "Sure WE think it's find if you drop the kids off at 8 a.m."<P>If she wants to make a time change. Your H could say, "Let me check with hlcdlc to make sure we don't have a schedule conflict.<P>We use email a lot to communicate with our X's, it's much better then personal contact - fewer conflects. My H and I copy each other on the emails we send out to X's.<P>This show a united front to the X and it lets your H show you that supports your needs.<P>Z

Thanks for the advice! We follow most of that already; he consults with me on any schedule changes, etc. Their daughter is only 4 and not allowed to answer the phone, but we do have Caller ID. She calls my husband at work a lot of the time though!! Drives me crazy; always to complain about something or another. <P>She does not come here to pick up her child; she can't as I had to obtain a Restraining Order against her last year prior to our marriage when she left nasty messages on my answering machine, foul notes in my mailbox, and showed up unannounced at the school where I teach. So she and I have no contact; I do accompany my husband on most pick-ups and drop-offs, though. As recently as April, 3 weeks before our wedding, she was still writing my husband love letters telling him she wanted him back. And she had been remarried for a YEAR at that point! He shows me everything he gets from her in the mail; I don't believe she has email. Thanks god, that would just be another way for her to harrass us.<P>Since she can't have her husband back, she has now sued us for custody of their daughter (she is a gambling addict and a drunk, she won't get custody), and as she is acting as her own attorney (no one will work with her; she has been through 4 attorneys already), she sends us crap in the mail about every week. My husband is very loving and hates that I can't go a day without thinking about it....but how can I when she is in our face so much?<P>

Do you have a friend or famiy member nearby that would be able to pick up and drop off her dd? If financially possible, could you afford to pay someone to do that for you? I know that's pretty extreme... but if his dd can understand some basic reasons as to why you and he don't pick her up and drop her off, then maybe the drastic way is the way to go.<P>Karen<BR>

Unfortunately the ex is a raging Psycho who won't let her daughter be picked up by anyone other than my H. I tried to pick her up (with H in the car) and she wouldn't let her go until my H came to the door. Now, however, I have my H's power of attorney to do pick-up/drop-offs, and I believe I am going to start exercising it. She will br forced to deal with me and won't get her weekly glimpse of him anymore. <P>But to be honest, she scares me. She is certifiably crazy, and will say anything, even in front of her daughter (who is only 4 and too young to really get it yet).

hlcdlc,<P>I don't mean to minimize your pain about your then BF sleeping with is exW. But let's see if we can step back and look at the risk of it happening again.<P>First, I suspect that since he wasn't married and she wanted him back he felt compelled and shall we say weak kneed about which way to go before your marriage. He slept with her, but he wasn't as yet married to you. I know he was committed, but I would say this to you.<P>IF, she wasn't a nut and IF she had been truely sorry for what she had done, and IF she and he felt there was a chance to restore their marriage, THEN everyone here would have been recommending that he end his engagement to you and try and restore the marriage.<P>I am not trying to make you the bad guy here. In fact, your presence would have had little to do with the recommendations to try and restore the marriage. Most of those IF's didn't exist, but I suspect he felt the need to find out if anything was left. He did!<P>He married you and has apparently been a very faithful and good H to you. He obviously loves you and is apparently helping you as much as he can in dealing with the abberant behavior of his exW.<P>It seems to me you really don't have to worry about no contact now. Things have changed significantly and further he is seeing even more bizzare behavior from her. She is probably doing a better job of keeping him away from her emotionally than you could possibly do.<P>I think going together to take his child is a great idea. I think getting as much distance between her and your family as you two have tried to do is a great idea.<P>So I guess my message to you is relax. Your H has been faithful to you from the day of your marriage, that is good. He is caught as are you in the middle between the woman and his child. He needs to be a good father, but he must let his exW see her child as well.<P>So read here, learn about the MB approach and apply it to your marriage. If he is interested involve your H in the MB approach and I think you two will have long and happy marriage. I think the risk of his having an affair with her is minimal. But you are correct to think about this and address it in your mind and with your H.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

I can not understand why you married someone who was obviously still interested in sleeping with his ex-wife.<P>I can assure you that I would never let anyone other than my H pick up my kids. Why are you even thinking of doing that? Just to make her angrier?<P>When you marry someone who has kids, you have to realize in advance that he will always have a strong relationship of some sort with their mother. Trying to interfere with that relationship will invariably be harmful to his children. Parents NEED to be able to talk freely with each other at any time, for any reason. If you can't trust that relationship not to be sexual, then you shouldn't marry him. A ex-wife is NOT an OW, and the no-contact policy can not and should not apply. <P>

Nellie: I married a man who insisted by that time that he was NOT interested in sleeping with his ex-wife (who, by the way guys, was re-married two weeks before I even MET my H, so SHE was a WS). I let my children's stepmother, who is wonderful, pick up my children anytime she wants. I suppose it all depends on how big a person you are.<P>JL: Thanks for the support. He has lived up to his promises ever since, and I agree, her bizarre behavior makes him realize how lucky he was to get out (and get his daughter out) of that relationship. We have agreed to the MB approach together, and are looking forward to applying the principles to our marriage. Thanks again!

hlcdlc:<P>From your post and responses, it appears you guys are on the right track. Talk with your husband and see if there is any more "contact pruning" you can do with the wild rambling rose.<P>Other than that, time will tell. As long as the two of you are mutually supportive, you will work through this.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

It has nothing to do with "how big a person you are." The only people who can pick up my children are close friends and relatives, people whom I trust. My H's OW certainly does not qualify as that. Fortunately it has not been an issue.<P>I went back and read through your posts and saw nothing that indicated that the ex-wife was a "raging psycho." I suspect I would have been more sympathetic toward your plight had you used a more measured description of her. There really are very few raging psychos running around loose, but that terminology is used frequently on the TOW and other boards frequented by OW's, to refer to the man's wife/ex-wife. From what little you have posted, it seems to me that a very common scenario occurred - the wife was a WS, married the OM and soon the fog lifted. Unfortunately, the BS had already become involved with someone else. Yet another reason for the BS to wait quite awhile before becoming involved with anyone else. Certainly the ex-wife seems angry, probably jealous, (few women would like the idea of some other woman raising her child, but I somehow doubt that she has been diagnosed as psychotic.<P>If there is a restraining order in place so that she can not come near you, how exactly do you propose to pick up her child from her?<P>I would think that a reasonable person would think twice before marrying someone who had relatives with whom they would have to deal and of whom the person was seriously frightened. When you marry someone, you accept them as is, complete with all their baggage.

Nellie, sorry if I sounded harsh, but let me clear up a few points.<P>I was not the OW. At all.<BR>My H and his W divorced. The divorce was final for two weeks when she remarried (surprise to my now H). A YEAR later we met. I was not the OW at all. We do not know, nor care, if she was seeing her new H before the divorce, but it sure was a speedy re-marriage. There is no reason she should not trust me to pick up her child; her child lives with me and is in my care most of the time. She didn't want my H back until she discovered (through their daughter) that he was dating someone seriously. You were completely correct on the jealousy part. However, she actually has been diagnosed, by a doctor, as having a mental illness, but she refuses to take her meds anymore (stopped a couple of years ago). She has been violent in the past (although, thankfully, not towards me), therefore the reason for my fears. If she would take her meds, I might not worry about my stepchild so much when she visits her mother. <P>An although she cannot contact me due to the restraining order, I have my husband's power of attorney to pick up his daughter, drop her off, sign school papers, take her to the pediatrician, things like that. So if it is necessary, I can do the transfers. At HER place. She just isn't allowed to MY house, or MY workplace (she showed up at the high school where I teach, and my administrators basically said go get the R.O.--after Colombine, everyone gets antsy--don't blame them). Believe me, it's not that I want to do it, but it has been necessary a couple of times due to work conflicts on my H's part. I DO NOT want to make her angry--who knows WHAT she might do!<P>I accept my H's baggage--I just wanted to vent.

I think it is insensitive and cruel for you to do anything that effectively flaunts the fact that you are raising her daughter. This is her daughter - she gave birth to her. Even if she voluntarily granted custody to the father, and it doesn't sound like it was voluntary, she undoubtedly has terrible regrets. <P>You are a mother - can you not identify with how horrible it must feel to be separated from your child? It is bad enough to be separated from your child and have the other parent raising her, but to have a stranger doing so would be worse than anything I can imagine.<P>It would seem to me that the graceful thing to do would be to step back and be involved as little as possible in any dealings between your now H and his ex-wife related to the child. Acknowledge that she is the child's mother. As much as possible, do nothing that would give her the impression that you are trying to take over that role. In order to co-parent effectively, they will need to interact and to discuss issues freely and on a regular basis for at least the next 14 years. Maybe it is risky, since she wants him back, but you have to accept that risk for the well-being of the child. <P>I am very confused about the timeline. You said that she was:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>was re-married two weeks before I even MET my H<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Later, you said she:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The divorce was final for two weeks when she remarried (surprise to my now H). A YEAR later we met.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Is there some kind of typo here?<P>You also said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As recently as April, 3 weeks before our wedding, she was still writing my husband love letters telling him she wanted him back. And she had been remarried for a YEAR at that point!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But if you did not meet your H until a year after she remarried, you would only just have met your H at that time. How long did you know your H before you married? <P><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited July 15, 2001).]

Yes, Nellie, she did voluntarily sign away custody. She never wanted children, and it was simply too much for her to handle, apparently. This custody suit is simply punitive and money-motivated on her part.<P>I cannot imagine someone else raising my children, but my children's stepmother is wonderful, and should anything ever happen to me, I know that they will be in good hands. My H's ex does not know me, nor does she want to. She tries to pretend that I do not exist. I am aware we will need to exchange info about the child for some time to come. I don't have a problem with that at all; but as the ex belittles my husband and I to her daughter, I don't this being a good working relationship. Is this you, Pam, by some chance?<P>And yes, a typo. Sorry. She remarried two weeks after their divorce was final. We met a year later, and she has been remarried for over two years now. My husband and I were together for over a year before we got married. We are newlyweds. But none of this changes the fact that her actions are simply not in the best interests of her child.<P>

Nellie1:<P>I can empathize with hlcdlc. My exW left for an OM, she abandoned not only her marriage, but her children as well, granting me residential custody ... and the ability to move out of state.<P>My wife (zorweb) has to deal with these children on a daily basis, and has done so as lovingly as any mother could. The children do get to see their mother 3 times a year, plus any time she travels here, and can talk on the phone or via chat or email. My exW does get angry and vents her regrets and anger on the children when they visit. Causing everyone turmoil.<P>So, while zorweb does not try to supplant their natural mother, their mother creates turmoil which impacts the household. In reality, because they are living here with their step-mother, she has supplanted their mother in some ways. It is not something that is intentional, it is a consequence of human interaction and love. Bonds form. This is an issue in any marriage in which the partners bring children from previous marriages.<P>In hlcdlc's case, she has to deal daily with the children, and she has to deal with an excessively angry exW. She has the right, legally and ethically, to protect herself and the child. She has a legitimate concern about the mental state of the child's mother.<P>It is not an enviable task, as such discord and turmoil wreak havoc with trying to establish a solid marriage and family.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

SeenTheLight,<P>There is, unfortunately, no way to know if the people posting here are telling the truth or not. There have been at least several instances that I know of here where posters have lied about significant matters of fact - and often they trip themselves up when their story changes. For instance, one poster said that she met the OM through a personal ad, and then several months later started posting at length about how their relationship started as a work friendship. I am fairly certain that there are certain posters who have created a completely imaginary persona. <P>We have no way of knowing anything about the state of the ex-wife's mental health - obviously, even if it is true that she used to be on medication, it certainly does not mean she is psychotic. It makes me exceedingly suspicious when posters employ hyperbole - such as "raging psychotic." And it also makes me very suspicious when things like the dates don't add up, especially when they are emphasized by putting them in all caps - it is hard to make a typo like that. <P>From what I have seen, the only time blended families work (at least when the non-custodial parent is still in the picture) is when the step-parent goes out of his or her way to do everything possible to ensure that the non-custodial parent does NOT feel supplanted, and when the step-parent does NOT pretend to be a parent to the child - a friend, an "aunt/uncle" type relationship, but NOT a parent. The child already has both a mother and a father, and everyone involved should try not to interfere with that relationship in any way.<P>hlcdlc,<P>I disagree that the need to "exchange information about the child." They need to co-parent the child, to discuss issues - far more than just exchanging information. <P>So are you saying that <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And she had been remarried for a YEAR at that point!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>was also a typo, and that she had actually been married two years at that point - one year before you and your H met, and another year while you and your H were dating? <P>No, I am not "Pam." As you can see if you do a search on my username, I am a BS (with custody of my six children), and I have been here for over two years. <BR>

I see so much anger in your posts Nellie. Although I agree with many of your points (in terms of understanding the ex-w's jealousy etc.), it is possible that sometimes a person is truly a danger....not only to her child, but to those who care for the child. Some people need to be watched carefully. It seems that you are defending the natural mother no matter what. Listen a little harder, ask questions politely, and you may get more information (rather than defenses which are what you are provoking). In the end, you may still hold onto your position, but at this point in the dialogue, I think you've assumed certain things that are not yet shown as fact.<P>And, maybe I'm just a little oversensitive to you...my h's last OW was a Nellie. And no, I don't think it is you <P>Just try to cool your jets a little. This is a support board, which of course does not mean that you support no matter what, but it would be nice to LISTEN just a little better before berating people.<P>JMHO

JanetS,<P>I don't think I am assuming anything fact-wise - we have no way of knowing what is not said, or even if what is said is true. I don't believe the original point of this thread was to discuss whether the child's mother was a danger to the child - one would hope not, since she apparently has unsupervised visitation - but rather how to handle the fact that her H can't have "no contact" with his ex-wife. And my point is that he has every right to continue to have contact, even extensive contact, with his ex-wife. As a matter of fact, it is his responsibility to do so for the sake of his daughter. <P>I tried to read her posts very carefully, several times - especially after I became completely confused by the discrepancies in the dates. <P>It does make me extremely angry when people throw around terms like "raging psychotic" - especially since it a term you see far more often on the OW boards to describe the wife than you do here to describe the OW. It seems to me that hlcdlc feels extremely threatened by the ex-wife (I'm referring to jealousy-wise, not physically) and that fear is what is driving her actions. I would hope that she would try to understand how the ex-wife might feel about the loss of her child. Why is hlcdlc assuming that the ex-wife is seeking custody for punitive and financial reasons? The ex-wife's affair apparently began over two years ago, at which time the child would have been just a baby. Perhaps she was suffering from post-partum depression when she gave up the child. It makes little sense to seek custody for financial reasons, when almost invariably the custodial parent is FAR worse off financially. Why is she dismissing out of hand the possibility that the ex-wife misses her child, and is terribly distraught at the thought of another woman raising her child? <P>

My H's ex only gave up custody a year ago. Since that time, she has contacted my husband's attorney numerous times about handling the divorce she wants from her current hubby. He won't touch the case as dealing with her is so difficult. So the child was 3 when she voluntarily gave up custody.<BR>She has told my husband's attorney that she needs the child support in order to support herself when she divorces her current guy. She has told my H that she wants to punish him for marrying me. That is how we know what this custody suit is all about. When she does have the child, she drops her off at my H's mother's house most of the time (thank goodness). I am sure she misses her child, but obviously parenting is not a big priority in life. You can't take a child to a casino here.<P>Due to the late and early hours I tend to post, I have made mistakes on the timelines. But there is no reason to lie on here; I am looking for advice, so what would be the point?<P>You are very angry at someone, Nellie, but it's not me. I was not the OW; they divorced way before I knew my H, and it wasn't over her affair--it was over her gambling and drinking. If there was an affair (we don't know for sure), that was not the cause of the divorce (at least not to my H). <P>So lighten up and vent at whomever you are really upset with.<P>STL, Janet, thank you for your support. I am new here and have felt under fire!<P>

Nellie,<P>If you have no way of knowing and you are unwilling to accept what someone posts here, then why do your respond? You are not helping anyone here lecturing a woman who has inherited the children of a woman that did not want them. <P>If that is not the case, then all advice is meaningless anyway. If it is the case, then the advice should be something more useful than essentially; go back and rewrite history. Which is by the way what you are telling her.<P>I am aware of your history and I realize you still carry a great deal of anger, especially toward men and apparently second wives even if they had nothing to do with the previous marriage. I also realize you feel no one should remarry on the off chance that the WS may come to their senses. But that last thing requires that the BS would ever want to be married to them again.<P>All of these issues apparently don't apply in this situation. So perhaps you can offer hlcdlc some constructive ideas on how best to deal with a woman who apparently doesn't really have the best interests of anyone but herself in mind. <P>I am sure she would appreciate it.<P>God Bless,<P>JL