My story doesn't change. Perhaps I wasn't clear. The OM has 5 children, one of which is with me...a son born out of an affair. He has 4 in addition to that. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.<P>------------------<BR>

Sunshine,<P>I guess it is not clear what type of Marriage Building or other help you are here for. Since we do not know you we can only deal with the information we are given. I am sure that there is more to your story then you have told us. Won't you please tell us what you are seeking. This can be place of great support.<P>Z

I am seeking encouragement and how-to advice to do the right thing. Not only am I the OW (to make it clear that OM and his wife have been divorced for over a year-their divorce began before I entered the picture) but I am also the WS. Is this how you treat a WS who is dying inside from guilt and confusion? I think I deserve better than that. I have spent the last few months being told of my faults and have been made to feel worthless. I am writing this to you right now as a broken individual who has been raped of my self worth. I am looking for answers as to how to rebuild through the immense guilt. How do I move on? I am not looking for judgement...I am my own worst judge. What I need is practical information that can help me down the road that seems more painful than any road I have ever traveled. If you have nothing encouraging and worthwhile to share, please refrain. Words of knowledge and wisdom are most welcome. <P>------------------<BR>

Did you read the links on the letter I gave you -- over on the first page? I think I was first to answer you...<P>How do you feel about your marriage? Do you love your H? Do you see any hope of rebuilding with him?<P>I am sorry for your pain, truly.

Nyneve,<P>I would love to e-mail you. Unfortunately, the crticism I have endured by people who I counted on for help has prevented me from feeling like I can be open on this site right now. At lease not right now while I'm at my most vulnerable. If you are interested in e-mailing me, please do so at snshne620@aol.com. <BR><P>------------------<BR>

Sunshine,<P>You said: "I am seeking encouragement and how-to advice to do the right thing."<P>This was definately not clear in your first post. What do you see as the right thing and what do you see as your options?<P>Also how do you feel that you have been "raped of your self worth"?<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

OK..<P>First you have to make a choice on whether or not you would like to stay married. It's not about what your husband wants or the OM wants right now, its about what you want. <P>If you choose marriage then try to put aside what your husband has said recently. That’s pain talking. Start reading some of the basic principles on this sight and post your questions here.<P>If you do not choose marriage then first thing Monday morning go find yourself a divorce attorney and file. After that start checking around for a good therapist to help you with your guilt issues.<P>Neither option will be pretty or easy but what other options do you see available. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hi Infidelity (edited July 20, 2001).]

HiI,<P>Thank you, thank you...THAT'S the kind of help I was looking for. I just need advice on where to go from here. You gave it to me. See how easy that was? <P>------------------<BR>

Sunshine,<P>You know, while it may be true that people did not immediately encourage you in a manner that you feel is suitable. There are a couple of things that might help you realize where we are coming from.<P>The first is that we get "drive by posters" all the time. They come here, post something outragious and then take off. It is often obvious that these people are playing with us. That is the basis of my comment about it being a sport. It was not really directed at you.<P>The second is that you need to realize that the people here are hurting too. In most cases every bit as much as you are. For the most part they are hurting from the pain caused by their spouses being in affairs. The WS here are mostly working with their BS to recover their marriage. Have you read the stories here? Have you read the depth of pain, humiliation and disrespect most of the people on this site are living with in their own homes on a daily basis? We know that all parties in an affair situation suffer from the experience. <P>There are WS, OP, and BS's here. The general concenses of the group is that we are here to save our marriages. We are doing this using the MB concepts. <P>To be honest with you, I do not know how to give you the support and ecouragement to leave your husband. You will have to guide us in that. You would have to tell us a lot more of your story before we would understand where you are coming from and what you want. <P>Z<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Sunshine,<P>Have you thought about how XMM has done this alot, waffling back and forth between you and his XW? I'm sure you have and I'm sure it hurts like hell. He hasn't made a frim resolve that you are what he wants. And I think you're realizing that. I'm sorry for your pain and guilt, but you can change all of it. You can set yourself free of it by doing what is right. Like Hi-Fidelity said, you decide what YOU want, and if it's your marrige (the high road) then you will be set free.<P>In one of your posts you mentioned how the guilt weighed on you both (you and XMM) because you were still married, but I would offer this, regardless if you get D and go with the XMM, you will both still feel that guilt. As soon as the "high feelings" of newness in your relationship dissapear you both have to face reality and it won't be pretty. This is not judgment I offer you, these are the statistics. We have seen it on this board time and time again. <P>If you stay here and decide to work on your marriage you can have everything you want from your H in your marriage that you THINK you can have with the XMM. <P>Does any of this help you?<P>Jo

I got pregnant by OM and had a son 5 months ago. H knows the baby is not his but has chosen to raise him as his own if that's how I decide. My heart is with the OM, not my H. H is Plan A-ing me (killing me with kindness) which has made my decision to file for D that much harder. During this time OM has been waiting for me. He left his wife and 3 children, left his job and moved 140 miles to be closer to me. He now lives in the same hometown. <P><BR>The above statement as posted by you caused quite a bit of confusion since you later said he had 5, one being yours and then four addtional children and that the divorce started prior to you. Your choice of words made me think that something wierd was up with you and your intentions. And I am still not real clear. But heh, I am a newby here to. So I shall leave it at that.<P>------------------<BR>DT<P>Stupid is as stupid does.<p>[This message has been edited by DownTime (edited July 20, 2001).]

DownTime,<P>I'm guessing that the 3 children figure was pre-babies. The XMM's wife then had a child and so did Sunshine. That would equal 5.<P>Am I right, Sunshine?<P>Hope you don't mind me answering for you.<P>Jo

I'd like to know why she stated that her H was Plan A-ing her("killing her with kindness")? She later states that her H doesn't want to have anything to do with her. She also stated that her H accepted the little baby boy as his own on the pregnancy board. Being a woman whose H IS raising the OM's baby as his, I feel very questionable about her conflicting story here.

Sunshine <BR>Take advantage of your time alone. I can actually see why OM is backing away from you this weekend in particular. It seems to me the decision would be foregone conclusion if he was around to "help" you with it.<BR>At any rate - know that you have asked for help on a site called MarriageBuilders! Having said that, what have you really done to restore your marriage and the love for your H? Be honest to the very core: what have you done? Have you done ALL that is possible? I wonder only because knowing that OM has left his family and job to be closer to you makes me think you never had plans to truly work on your marriage. Not a judgement, just an observation. It's hard to focus on your H while you have contact with OM, usually one must cease all contact in order for recovery to truly begin. I'm sure its even more diffult having a child with OM as well.<BR>Another question: "Are you prepared to live without your H and without the OM?" This is a possible outcome and something you have to be very aware of. Very few relationships/marriages that start off as affairs succeed. Those are the facts and maybe you feel you won't be one of the statistics, but you will have your work cut out for you if you chose to D your H and proceed with OM. Who can say when he next decides to go back to his Xwife? He's already had his doubts about you two, it could happen again.<BR>Your H on the other hand has stood by you, ready to parent another man's child. WOW! Does he love you or what? I mean really LOVE you.<P>Don't know what else to say now really.

Sunshine:<P>Well, so your itsy-bitsy feelings and self-worth feel raped? You screwed yourself, honey. Your husband is the one who was raped. By you ... repeatedly. There are two types of hurt: that which is self-inflicted, and that which is inflicted upon us. Guess which one applies to you?<P>Your husband accepted your betrayal fairly graciously, deciding to do the right thing in raising that baby boy. By sticking with you for a year and a half while you indulged in self-gratification.<P>The people on this site that are familiar with the MB concepts know that the betrayed spouse contributes, in some fashion, to the state of the marriage. They had nothing whatsoever to do with the decision to have an affair. You are confusing the two issues. Having an affair was YOUR choice alone.<P>You want sympathy? Go to gloryb.com or philanderers.com. Or look in the dictionary between [censored] and syphallis. You want to work on your marriage and recovering your self-esteem, then this is the place to do it.<P>And most of those who posted here, despite their "bluntness" (and mine), will be more than willing to extend a hand: If your decision is to save your marriage.<P>Oh, in case you are wondering if I am lashing out in self-rigtheous indignation: I have been the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse. You know what? My self-respect and self-esteem were shaken, too. But I didn't wring my hands, run around shouting "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" ... I realized that only I could redeem the damage I had done to myself and--much more importantly--the damage I did to my wife and her self-esteem.<P>As for beating dead horses ... the last time I did that, it was a two-horse race and I put my money on the one that was still breathing.<P>[RealityCheck: Unlike your Mothership-induced haze, WAT's perspectives, humor and position are cherished here. It was mentioned by another poster, in referring to you, that "mean people suck" ... I beg to differ: the last time you sucked was when your brain imploded.]<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL<p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited July 21, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by realitycheck:<BR><B>WAT:<BR>What is with this "mothership" and "Dennis Rodman" sh*t anyway?<BR>Don't you have anything more intelligent to say? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Most of the time, yes, I have plenty to say. Check on how often I've posted. If I come across as unintelligent, just don't read. Easy, huh? I have chosen not to waste intelligent words on you because you have demonstrated your choice not to be interested, thus I offer you gibberish commensurate with the advice you give others.<P>WAT

Sunshine - please take another look at your husband. If he is really Plan A'ing you, return the kindness by either giving him another chance or by ending this marriage in a manner that preserves his dignity, if not his heart.<P>But, before you do anything, please seek counseling before you take irreversible steps.<P>WAT<P><BR>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited July 21, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited July 21, 2001).]

WAT,<P>Thank you for your advice. Are you speaking from experience?<P>Snshne

Well, I didn't have much to offer.<P>I am a BS who is trying to reconcile with my wife to no avail so far. So I speak from experience from the standpoint of being able to relate to how someone can be willing to welcome back a spouse who broke my heart. Of course, I have no idea of what's going on inside your H's head, but I believe the capacity to forgive is extremely underestimated by many in your position. I couldn't believe I could do it until being in my position.<P>Please forgive us who initially struck back at you. I'm trying to preserve my family (wife and one son). We had a long struggle that culminated in losing our other son to cancer, and I believe my wife was seeking refuge in any port during the storm that followed. Consequently, I have a huge capacity to forgive, having endured the loss in my own way. This doesn't mean I have no share in contributing to pre-existing marriage problems.<P>Anyway, please understand that most of us can't offer you advice to perpetuate your relationship with your OM, but we can offer support and advice in your quest to find yourself in a direction that's biased towards what we believe to be your long term best interests. We may not be correct, but please be assured that we are doing what we believe to be the higher good.<P>WAT

snshne...<P>We all speak from one experience or another here. I am a WS, and have posted a letter to WS in here that you should read. I am not sure that you know all that you have done. Your guilt is not at question here and guilt is a useless emotion that freezes us from making intelligent decisions.<BR>As a WS, we are guilty as hell. There is no denying that! <P>I agree with WAT...take a long look at your H, who has been willing to give up everything to you and raise a child that is not his. If it is indeed truly over, then it is time to let go. You say that he is no longer willing to work on the M. Is that what he said? or is it a convenient way for you to justify going to the arms of OM for the life you say is waiting for you? Did you truly listen to everything he said or did you only hear the part that made you feel ok about leaving and ending things. I know where you are coming from!! I have been there...I am speaking from experience! Nobody here wants to judge you, but you came seeking the one thing that MB is not...quitting. You cannot chastise a group of people after giving them little information. Some of these people have been trying to rebuild marriages for months and years, and you were looking for them to counsel you on giving up....do you see the problem they had with this? Nobody here wants anyone to get hurt..they want to help, but nobody here knew what help you were looking for, and felt that you had indeed given up. We all thought, from what we read, you were looking for justification from those that were still believing in their marriages. <P>I have only one question...a serious one...what is to become of the child that your H has raised, as his father, but you had with OM?? I tend to feel most sorry for your H and that child...neither of them asked for this and neither do they deserve to be ripped apart after the bond they have built. Have you and OM thought of this in your evening of passion?<P>I wish you the best, and hope that you are not here three years from now telling us the details of how you or OM got hurt again.<P>Trueheart