And don't make a mistake, I do appreciate you sticking with me. But just don't expect me to react the same way to your posts as others. I can understand the amount of time you commit to this site is indeed commendable. I also work full time and try to take time to give as much as I recieve. <P>Keep posting with me, I appreciate and need it. But I've been doing nothing but reading and reading, and it is so good to hear someone really speak to me.

Yippee! Glad you two are on speaking terms! <P>I appreciate your good advice too K. I am in such a similar situation. It's so hard to hear what we NEED to hear instead of what we WANT to hear. Like medicine.... doesn't always taste good, but is good for us.<P>GM, I know what you mean about SAA. I read the first half in one night, but I am dragging my feet to get throught the second half. It talks so much about how to recover (when H and W are both willing) it depresses me because my H is not ready yet. I guess we need to finish it anyway . I'll finish it today. You'll love Dobson's book. It's the first thing I read after D-Day... read it in one day. it will give you confidence.<P>Hang in there. I just had a up-swing yesterday on my roller coaster, then a down 30 minutes ago, and now an up again - just talked to H again. Ugh. I've got to quit letting him steer this emotional car. You too! ok? We have to be the strong one - the grown-up!<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

My wife just called and asked if I wanted to come over her parents house to swim and then rent a DVD or something. I said yes! I am excited about it!<P>No more negative thoughts for the rest of the day! I have to be upbeat and fun! I have to be the comedian I used to be when we dated! I can't be this depressed slug that she has had to deal with everytime we talk for the past month. You're right, Faith! I am not going to let her steer my emotional roller coaster! I can be the fun guy I used to be!<P>One piece of exciting news, completely detached from the A, is that I am getting my car back tonight! It is a Mustang and it has been in the shop for two weeks and I miss it!

quote:<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>I am trying to extract a commitment from her to try.<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P>K: Stop wasting your time! She has to be willing to stop the affair, and apparently she's not. You've made it clear that you don't approve of your wife having an affair---so there's no need to continue this tack. I would suggest your focus be on eliminating any lovebusters you are guilty of---and doing it very consistantly. Make the time that you spend with your wife pleasant and upbeat. ----<P>I really need to learn how to do those fancy quote things!!!<P>TO back this up... I heard a motivational speaker say last night that we all have GOALS. In order to reach our goals, you have to be committed. But in order to be committed, you have to BELIEVE. This caught my attention in what I'm trying to get my H to doright now. K is right - quit trying to get your W to COMMIT to your marriage. She doesn't BELIEVE right now. The beuatiful thing about Plan A in this illustration is it's our chance to help our WS BELIEVE that the marriage and with US is the best place to be. Once they believe, they can make a committment to the marriage (the goal)! Maybe this is why I feel so much better today - a totally new perspective.<P>just a thought....<BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

I am getting a better understanding now of what Plan A is about, and I fully intend to perform it with all my heart when the time comes, but it would be foolish to ask her to come home now after our agreement. I want nothing more than to show off for her, and be the guy she wanted when she married me. But I guess the fact that she was not only still talking to the OM, but outright mocking me in their conversations, was more than I could bear. I didn't feel as if she even loved me, and if she doesn't, then I am not sure I want her to come home. =(<P>PS, to do quotes, just place the word quote in brackets [] before the text you want to do quote, and then [/ ] close brackets afterwards. There's more in the FAQ on it =)

OK. GM, now I'm concerned. Maybe I mis-interpreted what you said you'll Plan A "when the time comes", so I'm sorry if you know this already.... but I want to make sure you udnderstand Plan A... you should be in plan A right now. it doesn't matter if you are living together or not. Plan A is simply meeting as many of her EN's as you can (Financial support, affection, honesty, conversation, recreation, attractiveness, sexual fulfillment, etc... whatever HER needs are)and avoiding Love Busters (angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, selfish demands, annoying behaviors - basically crying, whining, begging, yelling, or questioning about OM or A). Plan A shows the best YOU there is, and makes WS wonder why they want out. It is also time for you to make improvements on yourself that she can see and believe. Harley's principles are either you are in Plan A or Plan B. You're not ready for B yet.<P>Have fun swimming - I know you will. No LB's! <P>Again, sorry if you know this already - I may have misunderstood... <P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But I guess the fact that she was not only still talking to the OM, but outright mocking me in their conversations, was more than I could bear. I didn't feel as if she even loved me, and if she doesn't, then I am not sure I want her to come home.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your wife is lying to you, and doing things behind your back. The issue you need to realize is that she is likely doing the exact same thing to the OM. She's probably not being honest with either of you right now---people immersed in affairs act as if they're nearly insane. If you think of your wife as mentally ill, as opposed to the meanest woman on the planet---you'll have an easier time pulling off a loving Plan A.<P>Other issue. Your wife, right now, probably doesn't "love you". That's irrelevant. She's married to you. You need to try to create the conditions necessary to rebuild that love (Plan A). Romantic love is conditional---your job in Plan A is to create the conditions where love is safe (eliminate lovebusters) and can be nurtured (meeting needs).<P>God bless---and have a good time.

I know it, but I just can't do it the way I want to, with her living with her mom right now. Do I all of a sudden tell her "Hey, look, I know I said I wanted you to take your time and decide what you want to do, and then come home, but forget that, just come home, I don't care what you do, I just want to love you."<P>That would be a big mistake, I think.<P>To be honest, I really don't know if I want her to come home if she isn't in love with me. =( But I do want this marriage to work. Very badly. And if Plan A'ing even while she hasn't made a POJA with me is going to help us make it, then I am all for it.

well, I was hoping K would respond... it seems we are both on here at the same time. <P>No, I don't think you need to tell her anything about coming home. (My H kept telling me he was moving, but was dragging his feet. I told him to move on out if that's what he wanted to do. "Perhaps we do need some time apart".) Living arrangements is not the point of Plan A. It doesn't matter if you are living together or not. If she tries to keep going back and forth between home and Mom's, you need to stand up for yourself - respectfully, not mean - and tell her to respect you enough to stay in one place until she can decide for sure. It's not fair to you for her to keep coming and going. She loves you, but that would not be respecting you.<P>The main thing I think you can do is to avoid touchy conversations. DOn't ask her when she's coming home. DOn't ask her about OM. Don't beg her to come home. Just sort of pretend (in your mind) that you are dating and let her decide for herself where she wants to live and for how long - don't bring it up right now. If she brings it up, just be calm cool and collected. "You know I miss you, and you know I love you and want to work things out, but perhaps you need some space - like you said - to think about things. When you're ready to come home - I'm there." Don't bring it up! You need to read Dobson's book . He says it's like opening the cage door, and letting your WS be an adult and make their own decisions. There's a post from a few days ago on the D/D forum by SoTired2000 that includes a healthy paragraph from the book. GO and find that and read it. <P>Oh yeah....your last comment... yes!!! Plan A without her agreement. Plan A is for us (BS) to make changes and demostrate them! <P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28<P>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited July 24, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Faith1 (edited July 24, 2001).]

Ok, I feel a little better... that's kind of what we're doing. She also wanted the time to think and not disrespect me while she was doing that, so the agreement was easy to reach. But we never agreed to no-contact with each other. We agreed that we could talk on the phone and that "dates" were fine. So I have jumped at every opportunity to go on a date with her and to be honest, I think it is working. She is usually the person initiating the dates.<P>I also haven't once tried to plead with her to come home. The only time we even remotely discussed it was when she was talking about how sad her mother has been acting because she knows something is wrong and that she wanted to just pick up and leave there. I told her "Stick it out, honey, you need the time to think, and just know that when you are ready, you can come home." She said "I know" and then just sighed and we talked about something else. I haven't brought up the OM, and haven't LB'd at all. <P>I really need to get that Dr Dobson book, it seems to have a great deal of insight that I'd love to read. My wife is much younger than I (ok, I'll let it out... she is 20 and I am 27) and this is indeed a lot like letting her out of the cage. I have always pretty much been the guide and decision maker in our family, and I think this is a good time for her to finally make some decisions on her own and start growing up.<P>

how long have you been married? Sorry, you probably said on a previous post.

Just over 2 years. <P>Email me, if you like... aragorn747@aol.com (oops, wrote the wrong one at first. I check this one more often)<p>[This message has been edited by GodlyMan (edited July 24, 2001).]

Alright... earlier, you said your e-mail was aragorn747@aol.com. you have two? <P>My concern was that your w is so young.. sounds like she is playing games and doesn't know what commitment is. If you really want to wait for her to grow up, you may be waiting a while. A good Plan A on your part will show her what true commitment to marriage is and set a good example for her. <P>See ya'. Gotta run. Hang in there.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

She is indeed young, and I will not deny that played a huge role in why she got involved in this affair to begin with. But we connected in a way that I had never connected with another woman before and it just seemed inevitable that we would marry, so we did.<P>I never expected her to change, yet accepted that she would. We loved each other so much, that none of that seemed to matter. But when she shut me out of her life in the past year, and started to live her own life apart from me, I made the mistake of letting her. Or could I have stopped it? I don't know.<P>I got a date tonight, and that's all I will concern myself with right now.<P>Thanks for talking and listening!

The date went pretty good =). It was kind of slow at first, I just had a hard time being myself because she was distant. But she got a little better and we had a pretty good time. Especially our nightime swim =) and an AWEsome kiss goodbye at the end of the night.<P>I just found an email to her, though, from him about flying down to see her. I am not going to bring it up with her, but if she meets him and subsequently sleeps with him (which, I am pretty sure they would. He isn't flying all the way here just to shake hands) I don't think I could handle it. If she knowingly slept with him one more time, while I knew about them, I don't think it will work. It will be the straw that breaks my back, and I think I would want to end it. Should I confront her about it tonight? She is driving with me to another church to go to a revival service. <P>I'm still not sure about their meeting. They've just mentioned it, no final plans, though.

LOL - "flying to see her to just shake hands...." hee-hee<P>Are you sure you want our answers? <P>I think - and I could be wrong.... you should NOT confront her tonight. You will be a pretty strong human if you can go with her tonight without bringing it up. I admire you if you can. But it's possible. Only YOU can know. The other option is to bring it up without LB'ing... can you do that? I couldn't. Otherwise, you should cancel tonight.<P>Honestly, I think you need to take a good look at this situation. If it hurts you too bad to "share" your wife with OM, I think you should put some space between you. NOT plan B YET, but just some respectful space. Don't date as much. Let her initiate "dates" and conversations. Play a little hard to get - turn her down occasionally, and say, "I just can't share you with OM. I can't date you knowing that you are still seeing or inlove with him." Let her wonder about you - let her MISS YOU. If yo are always there for her, she's not going to miss you, and she is waffling back and forth. If you keep seeing her so much, knowing that OM is still getting his way, you are going to LB all over the place, and you will get so frustrated that your love for W will drain quickly. TO me, it's a "tough love plan A". No LB's. Say nothing judgemental or angry. But don't let her walk all over you either.<P>Maybe I'm wrong. I hate to see doormats... said that above somewhere.... I guess, I think it's a boundary for how many EN's you are willing to fulfill.<P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

Well, we had an awesome 1 1/2 hour drive up to the church, and then an AWEsome service (in which I feel I was really spoken to. Even she responded somewhat) and a great time eating out afterwards with her friends. They are a laugh riot. The drive home was quiet, and I was SO tempted to bring up his flight down here, but I didn't. She slept a good bit of the way (it was 1:30AM, and I am TIRED now!).<P>We slept together, no intimacy, just good cuddling all night. She is planning on going back to her mother's today, I think. I really don't know. I'm starting to let go, a little. I think. But one thing is for sure in my mind, is that if she sleeps with him, I am not taking her back. I just couldn't live with myself for the rest of my life if I tried to swallow that pill. It would just be too much. It already is bordering too much. But if I tell her, it will sound too much like an ultimatum - if you do it, it's over.<P>How do I convey my feelings about it to her?

GodlyMan:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But one thing is for sure in my mind, is that if she sleeps with him, I am not taking her back. I just couldn't live with myself for the rest of my life if I tried to swallow that pill. It would just be too much. It already is bordering too much.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You really won't know whether you're able to swallow that pill until you get it (rammed down your throat, unfortunately). I would have said the same thing in my circumstances---there's no way I could have dealt with an affair. With my wife having sex with an OM. Having my wife taking our children to visit him. Having my wife take trips to see (and sleep) with him with my knowledge. Having my wife pregnant by him. Raising a young son who isn't biologically mine.<P>You just never know what you're capable of until you're put to the test. If you're truly a "GodlyMan"---pray for the strength to endure these tests. Ask him for guidance, patience, and love.<P>On the more practical side, you should absolutely bring up this visit to her. Let her know how you feel---that you think if she sleeps with him, you may not be able to continue this marriage. Don't give ultimatums or absolutes unless you're willing to live by them: the fact that you've flip-flopped in your plans would indicate that you're really not at the point where you can <B>definitely, absolutely</B> say what you will do. Have this discussion calmly, rationally---no lovebusters. No "how can you do this..." The focus is on what you know (he's coming to visit), and how it will hurt and affect your feelings about the marriage. Part of Plan A is (limited and stragetic) doses of complete honesty---your wife may not understand exactly how you feel. You need to let her know---especially if you're truly planning on divorcing her if she goes through with this.

*drinks cool glass of water*<P>You're right, K. I need to be careful here. Not only in not making ultimatums, but saying things that I might not intend to consumate. I need to ask myself "Can I really go through with it and ask for a divorce?" I am not sure I could, right now.<P>I guess I couldn't imagine bringing it up with her, by stating the adamant, but if I say it like you said "I feel as if I don't think I could take it if you did this..." then it leaves the opening that I might indeed be able to swallow the pill. And I probably could. But I don't think I want to. Of course, there are a lot of "probables" there, so I am obviously still not sure. But I am sure of one thing... I need to talk with her about it.<P>She hates it when I give her the "We need to talk" look, but it has to be done. She has to know how I am feeling about this and has to know that I know about it. But I don't want to give up my secret (that I know her hotmail password - how I found out about his flight info) and it is tempting to just ask her if he is coming to see her. She might admit it. That would be a LB, though.<P>*sigh* =(<P>this is going to be a long day

I've been trying to call her, on her cell, at home, at her mother's and she isn't anywhere. I logged onto an email address she used to use, and saw the flight information. He flew in this morning at 9AM and is flying out tonight at 7PM.<P>She went to meet him. =(<P>I just know they'll have sex, as well. What a mistake it was to let her leave the house. I wish I would have just held on and Plan A'd with her home. I don't know what to do now =( I am a mess. I can't believe she went and did it. Oh God, this is just unfair. She must have absolutely no love left for me at all. She led me on SO strong last night, having me believe things might get better. <P>I don't know if I have what it takes now, to make this work. Not now. Even if she makes a complete turnaround and never speaks to him again, this is going to be far too hard to live with for the rest of our young lives.<P>=**( Please pray for me.