Hi,<P>Me and my 2 cents contributing to the Plan B fund. Just want to let you know that you are doing ok. But your analytical side is working overtime again!!! <P>Rest. At some point, you have to stop being the giver and set your expectations. Your W will need to know (in a loving way - as much as possible) that she needs to deal with you whether she is made at you or herself. I told my H not to take out his anger on me if I was not the cause of it. If I was, I would appreciate a decent explanation so that I could better myself and that I would do the same for him. Of course, I said this when there was not conflict being discussed at that moment. It threw him for a loop but it kept me from having to deal with his anger and not knowing what hit me (figuratively speaking). It also removed some LB's that I would do, reacting when I really didn't know the reason. One of the most important things, is that it taught me to make sure that if I did LB, it was warranted. Both H & I would know this. Sometimes it would make H mad but he knew he had it coming. So in a sense, it took some pressure off of me. <P>Is any of this making sense? It is hard for me to explain but it was a turning point for me. <P>L.<BR>

Orchid and BrambleRose - two wise flowers!<P>Thanks ladies, you do make sense. thinking about it some more, I do need to make a fundamental change. I need, perhaps, to start treating her as an employee - maybe not a perfect analogy, but the logic is close. Establish the terms of employment and exercise reasonable civility, all the while not relaxing the business goal - taking care of myself and my son. Just a thought.<P>Thanks, again.<BR>Dave

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roll Me Away:<BR><B>Reading your conversation with your W made me think of one thing - the pursuit-distancer relationship. You have been Plan A'ing her (maybe the pursuit) and now with Plan B, you are definitely distancing yourself from her. I have read about this and wonder if her calling you back was a reversal of the pursuit-distancing? You back off and then she calls you???</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Desi - I thought about this, too. I was very surprised at the apparent quick turnaround in her take on the issue. Thanks for pointing it out.<P>I'm a habitual over-analyzer, so while I did notice this hint, I'm trying harder at not placing too much emphasis on this stuff. But, I'll be looking for similar indicators as I get better at Plan B.<P>Dave (WAT)

WAT-I'm sorry but I don't have much advise for you re your son & Plan B. It must be hard, but I do think things will even out in a little while.<P>But, I read your post to Rick about your concert . . 13th row back!! Wow! I guess it pays to go to a concert alone, that's something that I admire, it would be hard for me to do, I'm EXTRA shy! But I guess you don't talk too much during concerts anyhow, huh? Still part of me that I'm working on. Paul Simon's earlobes??? I'm rolling! Glad to know it though, could be a trivia question I run across someday!<P>Keep on keeping ticketmaster in business!!

WAT,<P><BR>You might want to check out Love must be Tough. Another book is about boundries but for the life of me I can not think of it. Sorry my brain is just not working today. Have to love a lazy sunday after wonderful bar-b-que. <P>Just try and hang in there. Set up a pattern that both of you can live with. This is a new phase in your journey in trying to save your marriage. You will hit some bumps in the road.

Dave,<P>You question about doing Plan B when you don't really want a divorce. This is a good question - because I had to ask Steve about this mysels. I was TERRIFIED to go to Plan B, because I thought it would send the message to my thenH that I didn't care about the marriage and wanted nothing to do with him.<P>Yet, if you have a WS who is unwilling to give up the affair or just unwilling to work on the marriage, Plan B is in order. It has several puposes, and again, one of them is for your W to get a taste of life without you. I can tell you, divorce can bring it's own set of problems to deal with. If your W doesn't want to come home and doesn't want to do what is needed for marital restoration, Plan B MIGHT give her the "nudge" she needs. Your Plan A has already established that you want the marriage to work and are willing to go the extra mile to make it successful.<P>Plan B should say that Dave thinks alot of Dave and Dave wants a mutually exclusive and fulfilling relationship with his W. If she can't or won't give this to you, then you are saying to her that you will accept nothing less. At this point, she will be forced into some decision - that she misses you and the contribution you make to her daily life and she is ready to come back and give you want you want, or that she doesn't miss you, gets along fine and is intending to build her life without you. One thing - Plan B usually helps the WS to resolve the "fence-sitting".<P>This is an excrutiatingly hard time - to be in Plan B. I have been there and share your concerns and fears. It is hard to do and even harder to do right. You deserve a whole and commited marriage with your W, Dave. Plan B is really that last ditch effort to get it back. It will help you because you can focus on you - if she comes back, great! if not, you will be a little more prepared, because you will have spent this time focusing on yourself and the rebuilding of your life.<P>I am praying for your family, Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bitsy:<BR><B>13th row back!! Wow! I guess it pays to go to a concert alone, that's something that I admire, it would be hard for me to do, I'm EXTRA shy! But I guess you don't talk too much during concerts anyhow, huh?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>bitsy - funny thing was I ended up sitting NEXT to another (balding boomer) guy (instead of a scrumptous female) who did the same thing - came alone. (Why did two seats end up this way?) We became instant friends because of our common affection for Brian Wilson, and we had a great time.<P>WAT

Pahakissa and Desiree - thanks for your support, it means a lot.<P>Desi - I understand your logic. I can implement the mechanics of Plan B very easily - it's distinguishing the things that SHOULD be implemented that cause my anxiety. Once I figure out what things to stand fast on and what things to give on, I'll be OK. I mean, I know how to implement "tough love," (I have a 12 year old boy), it's just separating the things out to go to bat with, versus the things to let go. Thanks very much for your interest. It is valuable to me.<P>Dave

WAT-sorry about your initial disapointment with your concert "neighbor", maybe you'd have better luck going to see the BSB's or N'Sync. . I've heard lots of mothers take their daughters to see them!!!!!<P>Glad you had fun & made a new friend. You know they were really before my time, but I've got older sisters, so I grew up listening to the Beach Boys. . I love them!

Well Dave,<BR>I went off for a little R&R this weekend and missed your Plan B snafu. Sorry about that but I must say, those kinds of things are to be expected. Glad that you are not trying to overanalyze the call back. I don't recommend much of that anymore. Peace of mind is key here. <BR>I hope that you are feeling much better. Do you have a hammock to sit back in and pick your teeth after you ate those ribs???

my kids are older, but many of the same issues happen almost daily. I never know where my daughter is going to sleep. Since my W moved out, she seems to sleep a third of the time a home, a third of the time at her mom's and a third of the time a a friend's house (who's mother happens to have befriended my W and is basically providing her with the emotional and practical support I used to).<P>To try and coordinate this with out direct contact with W is nearly impossible. And, my daughter is subtilely trying to engage us together in many ways. Inevitably when there's contact, I almost can't help going into a downward scaled Plan A mode. And I think it seriously compromises the effectiveness of Plan B on the WS. It's not hurting me at this point, I'm past that, but I just can't seem to make the thing work. I know this isn't helpful, but I thought I'd at least say, I'm having similar trouble.<P>Ish