Lexxxy,<BR>I am a victim but I also do acknowledge that I was not the perfect husband either. But I do have to say that regardless of how bad a relationship gets (unless it's like physical abuse) the other spouse should always come talk about any probelms they have in the marriage. It's copout and not the righ thing to do. I think the fact that I am trying to work it out means that I am remorseful.<P>Clouds,<P>How long was it before you said you were remorseful?<P>GC

Sorry GDC --<BR>I didn't take that prison comment very well.

More important to recovery than both regret or remorse is honest repentance ( to turn 180 degrees and go in a different direction). With true repentance you get both remorse and regret and a true chance at healing.<P>My H literally sobbed about how sorry he was, has stated numerous times how this has been the worst experience in his life and goes on to struggle to live in a fashion that is very different(despite how difficult it is to change old patterns of behavior and relating) from the pre-affair H.<P>We are so very lucky to have the marriage we have today, but without the repentance in addition to the regret and remorse I don't think we would have progressed this far.

after shock,<P>Yes, I'd recommend calling Steve or Jennifer, especially if you want to reconcile and if you still love your H. My W (WS) treats me similarly. I completely understand your agony. I also just returned from 8 days away and what I got was that life was easier while I was gone and that she and our sons got along well when I wasn't there. She didn't acknowledge our anniversary when I returned although when I called on our anniversary she said the roses I sent were "nice".<P>Working with Steve has helped me a lot. The exercises and planning we do has helped me understand how I need to change to meet my W's needs. At the same time I wonder if she will ever want to meet mine (outside of the homework that Steve gives us each week). At least when we sit down during our feed back sessions now, she does come up with ways that she is trying to meet my most important EN and she generally is more positive than not about the things I've done to meet her EN.<P>Good luck.<BR>SG

Lexxxy - call it what you want, but WSs harboring guilt WILL be in prison for a long, long time. If they want humane treatment, I say beam them up to the Mothership for good - to live in the blissful ignorance that is LaLa Land. They deserve each other.<P>WAT

gdc-<BR>I have to say I'm a little foggy about the time line. I can remember at about 2-3 months post d-day that i felt angry that H wanted me to say OM was a bad guy. I remember feeling like I would just hide the thought forever that the relationship with OM was special for me, but I would just have to deny it and try to forget and move forward to heal my marriage. These thoughts now seem foreign, but I guess it was part of the "process" for me. The worst guilt/remorse came for me at maybe 9 months or so when H was doing ok, and I just felt unhappy, sick and guilty. I felt at that point like I would never get over feeling worthless, guilty, etc. I've gotten past some of that. Mostly now it seems very far away (usually) and sometimes like it simply can't be true that I did what I did.....

Lexxxy,<BR>Nothing personal about the prison comment, but you have to admit, that would have made you think twice prior to doing what you did, right? <P>WAT,<BR>I believe that you hit the nail on the head, I would have to believe that some of the WS's would live in (guilt prison) for a long long time and at least until they are honest with themselves. It really comes down to character and how we act according to God's principles. Just always do the right thing and you will not get in trouble and you will not trouble others who do not deserve trouble.<P>Clouds,<P>Thanks for the insight, this information is always nice to hear from the BS standoint. <P>All others - what was the time frame after d-day before showing remorse?

About 2 months

gdc,<P>I posted this earlier:<P>I read an article by Hannah Mitchell today in my local paper that had originally been published in the Charlotte Observer. A judge in NC granted temporary custody to the father, and charged the mother and her boyfriend, who were living together with her daughters, with the crime of adultery. <P>Thank goodness someone in the court system finally had the guts to do this. <P><BR> Adultery is also a crime in my state, but the the vast majority of the judges are too PC<BR> to charge anyone with it.

My H (WS) told me and the counselor twice that he didn't feel guilty. He said he knows it was WRONG, but didn't feel guilty, becuase he didn't feel like it was wrong at the time.<P>6 weeks after D-day, and after our last counseling session, H finally saw and acknowledged my real pain. He said he was sorry for hurting me.<P>THAT was 6 weeks ago. We're still separated and not in counseling. He is "deciding" what he wants to do.

H expressed how sorry he was he hurt me, after I had a major drunken, rage, LB at him several months ago. I was not proud of my behaviour, but he did give me a heartfelt apology for hurting me. <BR>Hasn't said anything about regretting having the affair tho.

Nellie1,<BR>My state NC is a no fault state, but is oneof the 5 remaining states that have the law called Alienation of Affection and Criminal Conversation. I as a BS can legally sue the Dr. my wife had the affair with. Actually I have already sent him a letter with an attached copy of the lawsuit. I prayed and decided against it b/c I thought it would be a big LB. That is the only thing I know of in NC that the courts would rule against an A. Is there something I do not know about or was this just a jury decision. I might still pull the trigger on the Dr. yet, just buying my time.<P>Faith1, <BR>You and I are riding the exact same road it seems like. By the way, I did not call the woman I met last week. I thought I'd tell you. Thanks for putting me on the right track, it is extra east as a BS to have an A.

I completely understand the desire and expectation to get an apology a naked unconditional apology from the WS, and for the WS to have tremendous remorse for the pain they have brought to the marriage, I think they deserve it.<P>I was actually shocked at the fact that she wasnt happy to have a reason to kick me out, and since i had resolved to come home to either have a marriage or not have one, it was very easy for me to see how painful the A was for my wife. <P>I was really very sorry and apologized to her immediatly. she was not responsible for that decision. and i agonized over being wrong about her motivaitons for staying married. being remorseful and acting in a manner the brought her comfort was easy. i immediatly opened all lines of communication to her e-mail, v-mail, cell phone, everything, i told her where i was every min of the day, if i got up to go to the restroom she knew it. <P>D-day brought another thing to our marriage that hadnt been there for a long time, The ability to say what i thought and how i felt. i could look her in the face and say things without fear of retribution, i am realizing now that it was because there couldnt be anything worse in our lives together than what i had already done. this ability is fading as i become afraid of loosing her feeling for me again. anyway that honest meant that i was sharing with her how i felt, what i thought about how she treated me and why i didnt think she loved me in the first place.. <P>it was difficult for her because she couldnt differentiate between me speaking my truth about the reality of our marriage and how we were going to have to change both she and I to have a strong and happy marriage. she saw it as me blaming her for the A. I see that here as well. it is a difficult thing to hear that in order for the marriage to work, the BS may have some substantial changes to make in order for it to work. this isnt to blame, its to save.<P>as ive read the posts i am struck by the need for the WS to Regret the A, and i guess i am guilty here, i regret the fact that i wasnt man enought to communicate what was going wrong in our marriage, I regret that i did such a distructive thing, yet i would be lying if i said that i regretted the relationship i had with OW. <P>ive explained my situation so many times i dont feel compelled to go into it at length now, but i really feel that had i not been involved with OW i would have fallen into an extreamly volitale depression and would have left my wife and lost everything as i was in such a weak condition that i lacked the judgement to have made good life decisions. and in all honesty the OW was an instremental part of my getting emotionally healthy enough to realize even how wrong what i had done was. she actually help to restore honor in my life. too bad it was in such a dishonorable relationship.<P>

My husband showed great remorse when I busted him in his internet affair. I wouldn't have bothered staying if he hadn't because it's bad enough to have to settle for a person with a low character. <P>Simply put, I have to settle for less and if he weren't willing to work his a** off to prove himself to me, I surely wouldn't waste my time. I am just getting to a point where I can overcome my revulsion and am starting to feel love towards him again. But when I found out he was "that sort" of man, my love and respect for him went in the toilet

My husband is completely remorseless; he says he didn't do anything that he's going to jail for, so he's good to go.

gdc,<P>According to the article, this resulted from a "routine" custody hearing. The couple was separated. The wife apparently admitted in her testimony that she and her children were living with her boyfriend. In addition to awarding temporary custody to the father, the judge then charged the woman and her boyfriend with adultery, a misdemeanor in North Carolina. They were not allowed to leave until they each put up $1000 bail.

Big time remorse...self-loathing...suicidal thoughts at times....felt like the greatest a** in the entire universe...how could I have cheated at all? How could I have cheated when H was sick with cancer???? How could I betray God, H, kids, our families, our congregation and how on earth could I have been such an idiot?<P>Yet H forgave me and his love along with God's love and forgiveness and many amazing friends who still believed I was a good person who made a stupid mistake under a lot of stress and duress got me through. Things are getting a lot better and I'm not even sure when I finally forgave myself but I still apologize sometimes. <P>I thank God for my H who is truly my best friend and forever love.<P>------------------<BR>Fresh Start

Well, after many replys, it seems the consensus is that when the WS shows remorse very close after d-day, the marriage has a much better chance to recover. However, in my case and others if the WS shows no remorse or waits before they show it, more than likely they are still in the A and are having second thoughts about the marriage. More than likely this was an Exit Affair and the fact the we BS's are willing to admit our faults and Plan A throws a wrench in thier exits. What does everyone else think?

Well after many replys, it look slike it's safe to say that WS's that show remorse soon after d-day (month or so) the chances of the marriage working out are much better than those who wait or nevershow remorse. <P>Personally, my wife said she was sorry and that she can't even imagine the pain she has caused me and that there was no excuse or justification for what she did. This was after about 7 weeks and me confronting the OM and basically saying I had video proof of her having it. So she really had no choice in the matter. She also said she doesn't want to go to counseling. She has all but said it's over but yet she still calls and stuff. Don't play me for a fool and mess with my emotions.