Wow...<P>If I offended anyone, I apologize.<P>"TRUEHEART, Chaz and others who have come out of the "fog" are essential to this forum, also.We need their input. BUt we also need to face the facts ...not everyone of our WS's will return"<P>"As for a WS being here for only the reason of teaching me something, well that is good up to a point. But, why not spend a little more time working on you? To teach someone something is fine....but to learn something is priceless."<P>I have always felt that I have learned more here than I ever "taught". I only wanted to share some insights and help anyone I could. Teaching only happens when the object of the lesson is willing to open up to the information given. <P>I never meant to make a blanket statement, only that I think there is truth in most all posters here, WS and BS alike. I certainly never meant to imply that all WS come home, nor that those that do are any better than those that don't. Think I will just go back to reading for awhile. I am seeing more and more anger here, which I don't believe helps anyone. <P>Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone. I was just adding some thoughts...honestly.<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart<P>

Ok. Enough is Enough.<P>I'm not going to cause further turmoil to this board. <P>I was offended and angry about some posts I felt were judgemental and demeaning about WS, not just in general, but specific to the few of us that post here. <P>When comments are made in general (putting all WS into a catagory) I tend to let it go, because I understand that the person is venting or hurting. I started this thread because I felt that a few statements were becoming personal to us WS's who post.<P>Trueheart, this conflict is not yours -- unless you have felt offended by some of the comments as I have. So please don't stop helping people. I think most are more willing to hear your story (and Chaz's) than mine.<P>By starting this post, I only hoped to make the point that we are all in different places on this journey. And all of our points of view should be RESPECTED. Many of you (probably most of you) don't like where I am in my marriage. Maybe it hits too close to home. But none of you can tell me that only certain viewpoints are acceptable. Or that my feelings, thoughts, or anything else are WRONG. They're not. The simply are what they are, and I was willing to share them with you.<BR>Whether you like it, respect it, or hate it. <P><p>[This message has been edited by Lexxxy (edited August 24, 2001).]

I'm still new to the WAW/affair situation so I don't have much to add, but I appreciate everything all the WSs are saying. That which does not kill me makes me stronger.<P>I want to understand what's going on in my wife's head and how I helped us get where we are. So, thank you to all the WSs that take time to help us understand. It's not easy to hear but it's better than guessing.

Lexxxy:<P>Of course you should keep replying, your thoughts and feelings should be respected and are. I am not a BS or WS but I learn from both sides on how to be proactive in my marriage.<P>Learning about your feelings and surrounding factors that helped create them are an invaluable tool for stepping around the potholes along the marriage road. I personally thank you for your participation and look forward to your comments regardless whether I may agree or not.<P>JMHO

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy:<BR><B> ************************************************************<P>Here we go again Dana. <BR>The problem I originally had with your comments was that you said "simple HONESTY...finally the REAL story....helpful to hear the TRUE story...." As if its the only honest post you've seen from a WS. Go back and read it again for yourself. In starting this post, I had hoped you would consider that you were too extreme in your statement.<P>Now you're just insulting. I have not done any name calling, I simply wanted you to see that other points of view are honest as well. And to consider having appreciation for the diversity of points of view.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't need to reread it, I WROTE it. Sorry you found my comments insulting, Lexxy, however, I really meant them and won't reconsider them. I am simply being honest. Hopefully your "tolerance" and "diversity" of opinions cuts both ways and you really meant your statement above: <P>" And all of our points of view should be RESPECTED. "<P>Or did you just mean SOME views? Hopefully not.<P>My comments were a backhanded insult directed to any WS on here [and I have seen a few] who engage in those practices. [practices that I have ZERO respect for, btw] If you don't engage in those practices, you shouldn't take them personally. If you do, I hope you are insulted. However,like I said above I have never read any of your posts so I have no idea if you are like that. If you choose to take them personally, I don't know what to tell you.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Dana114 (edited August 24, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jdmac1:<BR><B>SNL,<P> I submit that a disrespectful judgement was made by both sides here ie; dana. Would this be a case of having a small piece of cake and eating it too? <P>I admit I have been judgemental and have apologized for it. Lets leave it at that ok?<P> jd</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Jd, I will be quite honest with you here. I sincerely meant the comments that I made. I HAVE seen blameshifting, excuses, and tortured justifications, etc, take place here. The reason my comments seem disrespectful is because I have no respect for opinions like that. None. And nothing can make me respect them. <P>I see "honesty" and "tolerance" promoted and valued here, EXCEPT when one dares to disagree with a popular view or challenge others. Well, tolerance is required for OPPOSING VIEWS; you don't need tolerance for views that you already approve of. SO I wanted to point out that "tolerance" SHOULD cut both ways.<P>For example, one WS calmly explained that there is no moral difference between an adulterer and a non-adulterer because it could "just happen to anybody." [using this logic the only thing seperating us all from being child molestors is the "right" set of circumstances] I don't know about you, but I find that opinion especially insulting and pernicious; an outrageous attempt to justify the unjustifiable and an insult to the intelligence of any decent, rational person. <P>Now, some have attacked me for making "disrespectful judgments" of an opinion that I have complete disrespect for, in an attempt to shut me up. I guess I am just supposed to sit by and let such a pernicious claim fly by unchallenged. Not to mention the fact that I am NOT Plan Aing the originator of these comments and certainly don't owe him the benefits of a spouse being Plan A'd. <P>Further, those who have attacked me for making a disrespectful judgment are doing the very thing that they claim to condemn: making a disrespectful judgment. In thier opinion, pointing out that something is BAD is WORSE than the act itself. hmmmmm This seems a little cracked to me and I have never been one who ignored wrongdoing in an attempt to get along. Nor will I start.<P><BR>

What I am reading here is akin to being a fly on the wall in an argument between a BS and a WS (married to each other, of course). Is this how we intend to go about helping each other in this gut wrenching struggle of trying to save our marriages and better ourselves? <P>It may be helpful to remember that we are here to learn and to vent, but not to exorcise our own marital/personal demons by trying to one up someone else. I've been guilty of doing this very thing, and I think we all need reminders.<P>You see, this entire post can be a good learning experience for us all on how NOT to talk to out spouses (me included <ducking my head meekly> ) Nothing gets accomplished except having satisfied some base need to vent at someone else's expense. <P>Hey, I've been on my best behavior writing this post - there is plently more I'd like to say.... but tempers are too hot right now for anything good to come of it. While I like a good tussel, I'll leave it at this. <P><throwing a pan of water on everyone> Now SCAT! lol<P>Khyra <P><BR>

Dear Lexxy,<BR>Thank you for answering. Your points are all well-taken. I didn't expect you to justify anything because you said you were not here to do that, but only to help and enlighten... Soooo, I felt free to give my impressions without offending you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy:<BR><B>[QUOTE]Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:<BR>[B]BTDT: We cannot assume someone is taking a moral high ground and judging because most of us do not know each other well enough to determine the sincerity behind the words OR someone's tone of voice.<P>***********************************************************<BR>Lexxxy: Isn't that what you did to me in the first paragraph of your post??????<BR>***********************************************************<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>NOT AT ALL, which is why I typed the above paragraph so as to clarify my position and my philosophy which was NOT assuming anything about you... We must read carefully. In my first paragraph--(look again and see)--I said your coming here to enlighten BSs "sounds like," a moral high ground stance. Meaning that it could be interpreted as such, not that it was and not that I or anyone necessarily took it that way. Think about it...<P>As in any of these conversations and posts, there is no need to take offense, explain or justify when it doesn't apply. Why? Because people are going to think what they want to think and assume what they will no matter what is said in hopes to clarify. People are going to think what they will based on the way the information is processed. Out here, most of the information is being filtered through a lot of intense emotions and not a lot of logic so people are very sensitive and rightly so.<P>So I apologize if my comment struck a nerve with you, it's just another one of those things that makes me go 'hmmmmm.'