<B>SadSally</B> ~ I am sorry that you are hurting so badly. I was where you are 18 months ago. I hope that I don't ever go back there again! ((((((((hugs))))))))<P><B>chaz</B> ~ glad you liked it <P><B>WAT</B> ~ I'm glad it helped. I am glad your inlaws are on your side....mine were invaluable to me. You've worked so hard, you have definitely earned my respect!<P><B>newwoman</B> ~ well it sounds like you and I are on similar timelines. My H and I were separated 18 months. He moved home August 1st, after a month of conversations and negotiations about what we both needed and wanted - making a plan and a direction for our lives. My H's last contact with OW was July 1.<P>I was blown away by your post. You said it SO eloquently!! I could have written EVERYTHING you wrote, just not as well. I nodded and nodded and nodded through your reply. EXACTLY. I am a better person, I will be a better mom, a better wife, and we will have a better marriage. ABSOLUTELY. All because of changes that I had to make in me. I don't want my old marriage either. YUCK. It was awful. Thanks for expressing what you did, I needed to read that.<P><B>psycho_b</B> ~ <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> you said you are satisfied because you are still married. Yet you also said, "I don't know if my marriage is infidelity-free ....." <BR>May I ask you, what kind of marriage is that??<P>It sure isn't the kind I want.<P>Yes, I want to stay married. But I am not willing to sell my soul for it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I haven't sold my soul. I am FINALLY in a relationship where I am being treated well. Both of us are putting the MB principles into practice. <P>I don't want to be married just to be married. As I said before, I filed not once, but twice. I wanted a marriage, but I wasn't going to settle. I took my vows very seriously, and my kids desperately need their dad. But NOT at the cost of my soul.<P>And thats my point. My H started to make REAL fundamental changes in himself when I finally learned my lessons about control, disrespect and selfishness. <P>No I don't know that my marriage will be infidelity free from this point forward. For today, I am confident that it is. But honestly...I'm never ever going to be able to say 100% that my H is not cheating. Part of it is the permanent cracks in our marriage that will always be there. Some of it is just realistic. I do understnad that anyone can have an affair. I'd be a fool to say that I don't think infidelity will ever be an issue again in my marriage.<P>For today however, my H is doing everything he can to regain my trust. I have access to everything possible about him. And you know what? Its still not enough information for me to say 100% that he isn't cheating. Its not possible for me to follow him around all day with a microscope. At some point, I had to decide that he was acting in a way that backed up his promises, and that it was an acceptable level of risk.<P>No marriage is free of the infidelity issue - some people are just more in denial than others. I thought infidelity wasn't an issue for us. What a fool I was. My H told me last night that he thought he was impervious to cheating and having an affair...and that it was THAT confidence that sucked him in. <P>The Harley princples are working for us. <P><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<B>jd</B> ~<P>All I can say is that you are obviously in a completely different place than I am. I think you have misunderstood almost everything I said.<P>Let me try again!<P>I spent alot of time trying to "understand" my H so that I could change and repair (ie control) our marriage.<P>I was angry, hurt beyond belief, and spent alot of time blaming him for the mess that we were in. My roller coaster ride was a nightmare.<P>When I took the focus off of him, and started trying to understand MYSELF, then things turned around. When I started seeing MYSELF without rose-colored glasses, THEN I was able to understand a bit more about what my H experienced while married to me. I was appalled and horrified. <P>I didn't like what I saw, and I had to fix that, regardless of the outcome of my marriage.<P>Affairs don't just happen out of the blue. Our spouses don't just wake up and say: "I think I'll cheat today!"<P>I am in NO WAY responsible for his choice to betray me. That was him, and him alone. He recognizes this fact and acknowledges it also. <P>But WE, he and I, together, created the environment where he became emotionally vulnerable for an affair.<P>It was more important that I understand MY part. Working at understanding him got me nowhere. Understanding ME was the key.<P>My H didn't want to ever go back to the hell that our marriage had become. He didn't want to come back to a relationship that would fall back into what it had been before the affair.<P>But when he saw me changing in FUNDAMENTAL ways - THEN he became encouraged that maybe there was a way to repair and rebuild. Thats when he was willing to put forth effort. Just as I didn't want to take him back without seeing action that reassured that I wasn't taking a foolish risk, he needed to see that in me also.<P>When I learned to accept him as he was, and let go of him, I then had alot of time to focus on me. I quit trying to save the marriage, and started trying to save me. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I can see where some people want control. However that is not, nor has it ever been what I seek. If you feel you only need to accept certian behavior from your husband, without regard to your feelings, that is a choice for you. What kind of power or rather control is he getting from you? Sounds like he has all the control. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is not what happened at all.<P>I accepted that my H was who he was. I chose not to allow that in my life. I walked away from my marriage and filed for divorce.<P>Am I advocating divorce? No. I'm as pro-marriage as they come. But thats how bad things were with us. <P>As long as I kept trying to change him, manipulate him, control him, demand that he change to suit me, follow my moral code, come back to our marriage and act like the father I thought he should be....our marriage didn't have a chance.<P>Here's a quote from my thread on Detaching with Love:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Acceptance is the next key. We need to look at the reality of what has happened in the past and what is happening now. Many of us stumble in the beginning over the incorrect thought that acceptance means approval. Acceptance does not mean that we feel ok about current or past circumstances, it only means that we stop trying to change what we have no power over. We have no power over the past or our spouse.<P>Even with acceptance, we need to grieve the losses caused by infidelity in our families and in our lives. Dreams have faded, bubbles have burst. Acceptance gives us two things - acceptance of our feelings and also acceptance of the fact that we cannot change the other person - healing from our loss and disillusion is an inside job. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I didn't say I had to accept his unacceptable treatment of me. Accepting the reality of who he was gave me the ability to make choices for myself, instead of waiting in limbo, hoping for him to miraculously become who I wanted him to be.<P>He doesn't have control. I don't have control.<P>We each decided to change ourselves, not each other. We negotiated with each other under the POJA to repair our marriage. We are both getting what we need right now. He's not continuing an affair. There's no way I'd take him back if he was still with his OW. I refused to fight for him. I refused to compete.<P>We are, for the first time in 10 years, a team of equals.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>BrambleRose:<BR>Don't you think a similar type of thing happens for them, when we spend a great deal of time talking direspectfully behind their backs?<P>jd:<BR>At first I wanted to laugh at this satement. But I didn't.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And why would you laugh? I am very serious. Obviously you don't see it that way, but you don't have to be disrespectful about your disagreement.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>BrambleRose:<BR>Venting is a good thing, don't get me wrong. But if I am spending alot of time disrespecting others in my spouse's position, because the bottom line is that I am disrespectful of my spouse...don't you think that comes out in very subtle ways?<P>jd:<BR>How do you equate being disrespectiful with the position of a WS on MB as being disrespectiful of my spouse? Yes, I do not like what she did. And yes, I do take my share of the blame for what happened. But no I will not allow her or anyone else to say that I caused her to have an A. She did that. She can take responsibility for it just as I take responsibility for my faults in the marriage.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've seen the WS here lately stating very honestly why they did what they did, and how they understand their own marriages. I've seen them be pretty direct and honest about their own thought processes.<P>And I've seen them ridiculed, insulted and judged.<P>What gives any of us the right to do that to another person?<P>Many of the BS's here are hurt and angry beyond belief. I totally understand that, I've been there.<P>But you know, we can hold ourselves up as morally superior, and judge the WSs here, and in doing so, also pass judgement on our spouses. <P>Do you want to be right? If that's what is most important to you, then you are on the right path.<P>But dropping the pride, the moral superiority, accepting reality, and stopping the blame game are what is necessary to have a real recovery. So if you want to be married, maybe LISTENING to the WS here instead of abusing them would be a good start.<P>No one here, including me, thinks that you are responsible for your WS's choice to have an affair. No where in this thread is that stated as a viable option. <P>Please read the Harley articles on Love Busting. Go back and read my quote from Dr. Harley on Disrespectful Judgements. We are here on MB because we agree and want to practice these in our own marriages...right?? <P>I am sorry you don't see how a disrespectful judgemental attitude behind your spouse's back doesn't carry over to your face to face relationship with them.<P>But then again, don't the WSs say that "what we don't know won't hurt us?" They swear that their private relationships and emotions that we don't know about don't affect how they treat us. But it does. We all know this!!<P>Same principle applies for us BSs. How we behave behind our spouse's backs also affect our attitude and behavior to them to their face.<P>It does make a difference. I've lived both ways and I know which works better.<P>The way to stop LBing is NOT to vent here. Obviously if you are listening to constructive criticism about how to do better, then it can help. But if you are using venting here as a permanent solution....I can't imagine it working well. But maybe for YOU, thats the answer. <P>But in my understanding: The way to stop LoveBusting is to change your own heart.<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Thanks Bramble rose,<BR>This was just what I needed to read today. I'm only four weeks into plan A and need reminding why I'm doing it and what it REALLY entails. Most of the replies to my questions have been from other BS who are at the same stage as me...it is reassuring to know that someone out there has a WS who in the end came back to them and decided to waork on their marriage because of this....I hope I can follow in your footsteps!

IF my H had an affair, coming here to vent would definetely happen for me. I would probably say some nastythings about how I felt about my H and what he did to me. But, I would also say everything to his face. Judgemental? Sure, probably true. Would my H deserve it? You bet. IF a spouse goes out and betrays the one person they're suppossed to love and cherish then yes, they get what they deserve as far as verbal emotional outlashes and I feel that they should listen to it also.<BR>Huge LB I'm sure to everyone here practicing the principals but if my heart were ever ripped out and stomped on like that don't ask me to quietly sit and try and figure out where I went wrong.<BR>I understand that this site is all about rebuilding your marriage and making it better then before but part of that is both spouses being able to hear and deal with the anger.<BR>I don't think it has to do with being morally superior, just human. Again, for me it goes back to respect. I dont think I can respect the person. You put it all on the actions of the person like the actions don't help define who the person is, I disagree. You can respect your H but not his actions saying he is human. Can you also respect a serial murderer? A child rapist? To me, No way. There actions define part of who they are and the same goes with a spouse.<BR>OK, now I"m ready to be flamed for all this!!<BR>

<BR>I enjoyed reading this post and know it makes since. I guess I am starting to realize maybe I would rather be right then married. My wife started her afair in 1999 also. This affair was just revealed to me by an anonymous letter in May of this year. I have found forgiveness and read a lot and was willing to do anything needed to repair our marriage. I did and do take responsibility for my emotional negate that lead to this affair, but I am still made physically sick by the thought of it. My question is this---- in the first weeks after the d-day I tried to do everything to love and help my wife. She confessed she wanted to make “her” marriage work and tells me she broke off with the piece of !#@!#@. Up to last month she will still cry sometimes and I would discover it was over him. Now, it is obvious to me and she admits if she did not get caught, she would still be doing it. My question is if she loved (or whatever) this man enough to destroy our entire lives--- why does she not now go to him. I don’t know if it is satin or what, but I am convincing myself this is over. Please, if there are any suggestion on dealing with the discovery of a long-term affair please share with me. I really need help…… love,peace,hope<p>[This message has been edited by need2know (edited August 24, 2001).]

It sounds great to me but how do you understand or justify in your mind when you spouse makes it clear to you that her body is hers, her life is hers, her liberty is hers and her right to have feelings for someone is hers. And that you have no right to impose any conditions or socialogical values on her.

Bramble - thanks for your insight. You've given me much to think about...

Dear Bramblerose,<P>I do believe you have met my EN for admiration. My H can now have the weekend off for that one. Seriously, I very much appreciate the compliment.<P>You are very deserving of a compliment as well. This is truly a wonderful thread. <P>I believe that in order to correct the mental habit of "being right" and of blame, it must be changed, not just diguised. I had to stop resenting my H for what I percieved were his "faults" in order to begin to empathize with his feelings.<P>My newly acquired ability to empathize does not mean I ever condoned his actions. However, I learned to understand him. He is a whole person with strengths and faults. We have been married for 16 years and have both made mistakes. He knows I cannot and will not share him with someone else. However, I can forgive him. He is a not a bad person. He is a good person who made a bad choice.<P>Thanks again for the compliment. It made my week. Let's keep in touch in recovery.<P>Newwoman

<B>Wounded One</B> ~<P>I can't tell you how grateful I am to be out of the nightmare. It was my choice though, to step out of it. I know it sounds crazy, but its true. I left the nightmare when I changed, not when my H changed. Keep reading and writing here, it will help tremendously! <P><B>shedawg</B> ~ <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>IF my H had an affair, coming here to vent would definetely happen for me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Venting your hurt and anger is one thing - and a good thing. But hurting others, even if they are just those nasty inferior evil WSs, isn't a good way to vent...IMHO.<P>BUT your H hasn't had an affair. You honestly can't say what you would or wouldn't do until IF it happened. <P>But even if you are one of the few that can accurately predict what you would in the face of a spouse's infidelity...well, it would be your choice to do so. You have the right to choose to do that, and in your emotional/moral makeup, thats what you would need to do. You have my permission if thats what you want, ok? <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>. But, I would also say everything to his face. Judgemental? Sure, probably true. Would my H deserve it? You bet. IF a spouse goes out and betrays the one person they're suppossed to love and cherish then yes, they get what they deserve as far as verbal emotional outlashes and I feel that they should listen to it also.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well in a FAIR world, I think so too. I think the WS should suffer lots of stuff. But since when is FAIR and REALITY ever in the same sentence?<P>I had to stop being right, and stop setting myself up as the judge, jury and executioner. I wasn't my job to punish my H. If I'm not interested in my marriage, and only interested in revenge and retribution, well then, I guess I can charge right ahead in playing "tit for tat".<P>I'm not making a value judgement here. If you want revenge...then thats what you do. If you want a marriage, well then some other things have to be done. Its just reality, its not about fairness.<P>Its a real question. If it is more important to be right, then you can skip the whole thread I wrote. If it is more important to you to be married, then some real changes have to be considered. Because what WS is going to come back to a vindictive spouse? Not many.<P>No flames here. I think you and I define respect a little differently. And thats ok.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

I'm NOT talking about revenge. I'm talking about a spouse willing to deal with what they created in the marriage which would be alot of anger.<BR>No, my current H has never cheated on me, but my X-H did. Revenge isn't what I was after at all. But, if he wanted to save the marriage then he had to deal with my emotional outbursts and to expect otherwise is not healthy as far as I'm concearned.<BR>He dealt with them but then I decided, for alot of other reasons, that the marriage wasn't worth it all.<BR>This marriage is and if my H cheated he would have to hear what I had to say about it all. Not judging him persay but expressing my outrage would happen and Im sure more than once. To me that's not revenge. Revenge would be making his life just as miserable as I felt and that's not what I'm talking about.<BR>As for the respect thing, yes, I think we do not see eye to eye on that one and that's cool, to each his own.<BR>I'm not saying that you're way of handling your marriage is wrong, it worked for you and now you're in a happier place with your H, but it's not the only way and therefor not the right way for everyone, me being one of them.<BR>I'm happy that you're were you're at in your marriage and I hope it lasts a lifetime for the both of you as i know you hope the same thing. So, you keep up doing what's working and it sounds as though the two of you will keeping on with many good years to come.

<B>need2know</B> ~<P>Well, ouch, for you, the affair is brand new. Can you get into counseling for yourself? <P>You do have a choice. You can choose marriage or choose to leave. Your wife seems to have chosen you. Can you call Steve Harley and talk to him? He'd be very good for helping you sort through your decisions.<P><B>ritchyrich</B> ~<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It sounds great to me but how do you understand or justify in your mind when you spouse makes it clear to you that her body is hers, her life is hers, her liberty is hers and her right to have feelings for someone is hers. And that you have no right to impose any conditions or socialogical values on her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, here's MY opinion, and thats all it is, my opinion.<P>You don't have that right. You don't have that control and you can't ever gain that control. You have no "rights" over your wife.<P>She can do whatever she pleases. So can you.<P>For now she is choosing something other than honoring your wedding vows. You can't force her to do so. YOU are choosing to stay in your marriage and stick by your promises. She couldn't make you stay or go either...only you can!<P>You don't have the ability (in reality) or the right to impose ANYTHING on your wife.<P>Do you want a willing, loving partner...or a servant/slave/child? Love is a decision and can't be forced.<P><B>sable</B> ~ glad it helped <P><B>newwoman</B> ~ woohoo, well you can tell your H that he has the weekend off with my compliments!! Again, I totally agree with you!<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

bramblerose,<P>I won't go into a long post, all I will say is Bravo!!! I don't respect my W's choice to have an A, and I hate the pain it's causing me. However, I do respect my W and love her with all my heart. Ironic as this seems, her A has made me take a hard look at myself and I didn't like who I was. I have made changes and am continuing to make changes, for me, not for her, so that I will be a better man regardless of what happens in our marriage. It's a tough price to pay, but necessary for me to become the man I want to be (and hopefully the man she'll want to be with).<P>My W is free to make her own choices, whether I like or agree with them, as am I. And right now I choose to stay married and hold onto the hope that we can weather this storm and use this experience to build a marriage that is better than before. I want my W to be the person she wants to be. Hopefully that's still the person I want to be with. I'm a work in progress, but someday I'll get there. When I do, I want her to be with me so she can reap the benifits of the person I'm trying to become.<P>I don't want my W to beg for my forgiveness and plead for me to give her another chance. I want her to give me another chance.<P>sad dad <p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 24, 2001).]

This is a very important thread for me. I have really been reflecting on the thoughts raised here. Bramble and NewWoman - I am in much pain due to the newness of my sad discoveries, however I know I need to aspire to the thinking you have shown here, not just to give my marriage the best chance of recovering, but also to move toward more comfort in my own skin - to be the kind of person I really want to b. I have been soooo controlling in my life, especially in my important relationships (H, 2 kids). I am exhausted from years of trying to manipulate situations (not consciously until recently) in a direction I am comfortable with. I know through counselling that this has a lot to do with finding safety, trying to prevent abandonment, however my biggest question to myself these days is "how's that workin for ya??!!"<BR>Sad Dad - I can emphasize with where you are at in this. For me, I think this is the key to moving forward in my life, regardless of the outcomes re my M. When it comes right down to it, we have so little control - only over our own actions, thoughts, responses. When I really think of it, it could be a big relief to me (not to mention the rest of my family) to let my need to control everything go - easier said, right? Take care all - I'd like to hear others thoughts on this thread.<BR>p.s. I shared the quote that one of you posted from one of the Harley's books (Bramble, NewWoman?? - thx)on controlling our spouses to get our needs met. Took a deep breath and shared it with my husband and said "I think this must be what it has been like to live with me". I read it and hesitantly agreed. I hope it will help him see that I acknowledge my mistakes as well and I am trying to work on them.

another shameless bump

BR, LOVE that quote! I think it was that philosophy that finally seeped through that helped us be where we are today. I quit thinking that my way was the only way, and the only way I could be happy. It isn't and it wasn't! I'm HAPPY remaining a family and I'm HAPPY being with my husband (even if it HAS been a while since I've gotten flowers, LOL!) I remember feeling so incredibly disappointed and sad and just SURE that it was because my partner was this or that. It wasn't...it was because I had high expectations...too high. The minute I let go of the expectations...things started to be better. I'd still like more this and less that....but then he'd probly like to see me do more of the laundry and start cooking again too. That's just life as it is for us today...and tomorrow it may be different. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

I do not agree that it is grammatically possible to respect an action - you can respect a person, but you can only approve or disapprove of an action.<p>I also disagree that people are deserving of respect just because they are human - respect is something that must be earned. <p>I also disagree that affairs can not happen out of the blue - often they do happen exactly that way, either as an inappropriate response to anger, or loneliness, or depression, or even just opportunity. <p>Doing my best to avoid disrespectful judgements and lb's was a HUGE MISTAKE in my case. Although it is not a great idea to go off into tirades on a regular basis, sometimes it is far more important to stand your ground than it is to worry about whether or not you are lb'ing. Many male WS's feel caught between what the OW tells them to do and what they know is right (I am talking here about their kids or their financial obligations, etc., not about the affair per se) and if the WS is anything less than absolutely unbudgeable she and the kids will get shafted. <p>WS's come back if and only if the affair ends - and the ending of the affair typically has little or nothing to do with anything the BS says or does, or doesn't say or do.<p>I think it is incorrect to claim that by "accepting" your H, you are no longer trying to control him. I do not believe that the question of whether or not your "accepting" him would have an impact on the probability of success of your marriage never entered your mind. Everything we do as humans, every decision we make, is an attempt to control our environment. That is just the way it is - it is one of the fundamental constructs behind natural selection, and it is true for every living creature.

nellie...I think it is incorrect to claim that by "accepting" your H, you are no longer trying to control him. Everything we do as humans, every decision we make, is an attempt to control our environment. That is just the way it is - it is one of the fundamental constructs behind natural selection, and it is true for every living creature. <p>snl...I thought I was the only one who kept pointing out that we are all selfish and it is silly to accuse the ws, or anyone else of thinking only about themself, it is how we are put together, we can't not be selfish [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The conflict comes more from focus, as long as we are overtly controlling only OURSELVES ok (even if the goal is to effect a change in another)...but if we use coercion, and aggressive manipulation as the tools to effect change, we have crossed the line, and that is what BR speaks to. Being "right" is a highly coercive technique, so is the moral high ground, so is vows, all this stuff is about "making" another make specific choices....whereas if you let them go, and accept whatever choices they make, you breakup the inherent conflict manipulation causes, clearing the way for real choices, which will stick....the downside is you may not accept those choices, and must be prepared to walk....otherwise you have not truly set someone free....and you cannot love someone until you set them free, no matter how much you kid/deny to yourself....and setting free means you no longer judge them, or have any expectations which affect your feelings....<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

I am new here and don't understand all of the principles that you all are talking about. However, I did visit this site when I was newly betrayed and read the material about infidelity. I have also taken the time to reread that material when I joined the discussion group this time. <p>I have to say that a lot of what is discussed here makes no sense to me. In regards to this thread concerning do I want to be right or do I want to be married. Well, I don't really need to be either of those things. What I need is to have some respect for myself. What I need is for the man I love to be honest with me and not blame me for his lying and cheating. What I need is a mature partner who will take responsiblility for his own actions. What I need is for him to show some respect for me. <p>What I don't need is to push all of my hurt and anger and confusion and frustration down deeper inside of me and just live with it because to reveal it seems unaccepting of who he is or is "love busting". This would undoubtedly make his feel better, but at what cost to my emotional and physical well being? <p>I don't need to control him, he needs to control himself. <p>If his condition for staying married is that I accept his infidelity quietly and meekly, never question him about the whys and hows, and instead try to find something wrong with myself to account for actions that he took on his own without regard for me then he can leave. <p>I am a person worthy of respect and consideration and being heard. We can either talk about the difficult subjects he wishes would just go away or we can both pretend they didn't happen. I don't think either of us will learn and grow from the latter. On the other hand, he may learn from the latter that I will just accept whatever he does and there are no consequences for his actions. <p>I don't think I should have to hide my feelings from him because they make him feel bad. I don't scream or belittle or argue with him but I am NOT going to just suck it up and move on to make things more comfortable for him. He is a grown man. It is time he started acting like one.<p>I don't want to punish him, but I am not going to punish myself either. <p>He needs to be as accepting of me as I am of him. I am a person who is hurt, he is a person who was unfaithful. If I can deal with his unfaithfulness then I expect he can deal with my hurt.

Well put, Seeking. I didn't know that there was a choice between staying married and being right. And what does that statement mean, anyway? That yes, as a BS I am right to feel hurt but if I want to stay married I should let him do whatever he wants in the name of some idealistic model of "letting go"? Huh? <p>If it's about control, I know I have no contol over this person. Don't want it. What I DO (or rather DID) want is to know that when my H went out there without me he would uphold the vows he took. That's pretty simple, right? How is that controling? I did not put a gun to his head in order to get a ring on his finger. <p>No, I don't want to be married to this person. He has proven over the course of many years that his idea of a marriage isn't even in the same book as my idea of a marriage, never mind the same page. It's not right or wrong. He's a player, I don't want to tolerate it. End of marriage. <p>Snow

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He needs to be as accepting of me as I am of him.<hr></blockquote>
Seeking,
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. My W and I have struggled with the after-effects of her affairs, and we've done it head-on. I think one of things that made sense to me as far as reconciling the MB philosophy with what was really happening, is that if it's part of the healing process, then it's not really a LB. I've screamed and called my W a w**** because I was so hurt I just couldn't stop. I think she needed to face her behavior, and at the end of the day, getting all the hurt out has made our recovery stronger. We're at a year past my W's final confession to me, and we've come a long way. One doesn't need to look far on MBs to see many, many marriages still in serious trouble because of a failure to deal honestly and completely with the betrayal, and the pain that it caused. <p>I hope you'll continue to post. <p>David