I have been trying to understand this. Why does the WS seem like they do not want to make decisions? Especially the important ones. Yet they want everyone else to know how to treat them, to do the right thing, meet their needs and even read their mind. Yet, they show by their actions that often they do not want to commit, comment or make a decision. <P>Why is that? <P>L.

Because whatever they decide, it will be wrong, doing nothing keeps the options open while one waits for...I dunno.... a burning bush or something.

Does that go for all big decisions in their life?<P>L.

I thought it was if they wait long enough someone else will deciede and then they dont have to take any responsbilty... <BR>Lora

God forbid they should take responsibility for themselves! When the outcome is ok, nothing is said. When the result is bad, you or everyone else is to BLAME!!! Its always someone else's fault! I swear, they are like children!

That is to pat an answer SNL.<P> More likely they either do not know how to make a decision they think will be pleasing to BS and WS. they've lost that ability due to the strong emotional problems they themselves helped create. Or, IMO, they want to be able to say they had no part in the decision process if things don't work out. <P> I don't know. Maybe some just feel they truely have screwed things up so bad all they are capable of is screw-ups.<P> jd

My WH told me after I found out about the A and asked him to leave that I had made his decision for him.<P>My WH has not only given up all decision making, he has given up all responsibilities that he can.He concentrates on his work, even though he's with the OW, and that way he doesn't have to think about his personal life.<P>He told my D that he has a hard time making it through a day, yet he continues to coast along, waiting for something to happen to him to make his life better, instead of taking charge and making things happen. He could coast for years???<BR> Why is it they just seem to give up? I think my WH is very tired, depressed, and just hoping things will get better on their own.

It is a combination....<P>Many WS's have been conditioned or domesticated that their 'decisions' are wrong or lead to 'poor' experiences...after a time, we the BS become frustrated with their 'lack' of decision-making...their 'inability' to be responsible...probably because we have been conditioned to be responsible...to make decisions...<P>That's part of what makes us 'fit' in the beginning...One of the things my H says to me is that OW and I are so very much alike...and knowing her, he is correct...we have similar 'take charge,' 'get things done' personalities that my H admires...the difference? To use a cliche...familiarity breeds contempt...he became contemptuous and resentful of my abilities...and to be 'radically honest,' I became contemptuous and resentful of his 'lack' of abilities...our marriage became a place for two very angry, resentful, frustrated people...he started seeking the qualities in a person that made him feel like I made him feel....<P>to this day, his only 'real' complaints about me is that "I didn't listen to him," and "He didn't really know me."<P>I felt the same 'deadness' that he felt...the reason I didn't have an A is nothing noble...I just don't have the self-esteem to think that ANYONE would be interested in my like that...in fact for years I have doubted how and why my H could feel that way about me...hmmmm....<P>The answer is that your H, the WS's were conditioned/domesticated over time to be the way they are...because there was a 'payoff' for them to be that way.<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

upon rereading it may have sounded like I meant others would say we are wrong...what I meant, is we feel like no matter what we do, it will not work right, doing nothing, or just "coasting" is sort of a safe alternative. Yes it is avoidance, without a doubt, bought on in part by overload, we are messed up, and we know it, making decisions is the last thing we want to do. Which is why a little pressure, properly applied can work well, but as is true anytime one fools with dynamite, one small mistep, and we blow up in your face.

In my opinion, there are two sides to the coin. They are reluctant to recommit to the marriage because they are afraid to open themselves up to being vulnerable emotionally and being hurt and unhappy all over again.<BR>I think they don't believe their BS's are capable of real and sustained changes. On the other hand, I think they're afraid if they leave the marriage it will be the biggest mistake of their lives. As BS's, the decision seems easy because we know how sincere we are about the changes we've made. But from the WS's perspective, it's risky either way. Also, to add to jdmac1's comments, they may be worry that the A will be a black cloud hanging over their marriage forever. It doesn't have to be that way, but I'm sure there are alot of BS's who never let their WS's forget it. That's a shame because it undermines the very thing the BS wants.<P>sad dad

This sort of fits in with the thread that was on here a few weeks ago about spouses who are expected to contribute so little in marriage that it is easier for them to stray.<P>If someone feels they aren't a part of the decisions in a M, then they can drift.<P>I know my WH was angry at me for ignoring his opinions about some things just before A began. It was not often he was listened to, I see that now.

Because one person often becomes the "designated driver" of the marriage. Decisions can be safely made by that person. The other person can just sit in the backseat and enjoy the ride, maybe even enjoy the company of the other passengers will the DD is watching the road? Just a guess.

L - I don't think this behavior is universal. For my alien, it's quite the opposite of the pattern you described. She has no trouble making decisions, they just happen to illustrate very poor judgement and a lot of hypocrisy.<P>This is a big source of my frustration.<P>My wife thinks nothing of making decisions, big and small, and then complaining of the results of those decisions. I think all WSs do this to some degree. For example, she moved out, she got an expensive two bedroom apartment, she bought a new car, yet she complains of living paycheck-to paycheck and I need to be "fair" to help her get by. <BR>Hello?<P>It wasn't a decision as much as it is a conclusion, but recently she critized me of using a "phone counselor" instead of a "real" counselor. Hello? And exactly what type of counselor have you used? Hmmmmmmm? (None).<P>Now for the bizarre: She recently accused me of doing "horrible" things to her. I don't even need to elaborate on that one.<P>WAT

Hi Orchid,<BR>Just a guess here, I can't speak for anyone, but just wondering if some WSs might be depressed because they are still in love with OP and afraid to admit it to their spouse?<P>When anyone is depressed in general, even simple household chores seem very burdensome and overwhelming--maybe even impossible, so imagine what major life decisions represent to a severely depressed person?<P>I have a friend who had an affair with a coworker. This person has always taken their job seriously, but ever since DDay, has been very unmotivated at work. If there was no DDay, the A would still be going on. The person is very much still in love with OP and very depressed. Refuses to leave spouse & says 'the marriage was not broken.' <P>They filled out the MB EN questionnaires but WS said it felt hypocritical. My guess is because their heart is still with OP and really could care less about meeting spouse's ENs. <P>This is a sad situation when the BS is doing all they can to improve things.<P>I agree with what has been said about giving up on making mistakes by not making any decisions, that's a possibility. I don't think it applies to WSs, but human nature to say forget it! I'm a screw-up and everyone knows it.<P>Sort of like when you have a car accident and swear that you will never drive again? Not rational thinking, but human nature to make such a vow.<p>[This message has been edited by BINthereDUNthat (edited August 28, 2001).]

Thanks all for your replies. I have read them carefully and while I still feel at a loss about this decision thing, I now know, I am not the only one feeling this way. <P>I spoke to H today, he agrees more with the in love with OP theory. I guess, I have been kidding myself all along. <P>BTDT, you are wise to have brought this to my attention. Maybe holding on to hope was not healthy for me. I have to learn to release and let go. It is just soo hard. The toll it is taking on my physical self right now is more than I can handle. But handle I must. I am not very strong at this time but don't have any more choice in the matter. <P>I don't think I will ever ever understand this A stuff. It is way beyond my comprehension. I just wish that the WS's of this world would make their decision. They weight and guilt that they place on the Bs and family is very very unfair and cruel. <P>To always be the one on top, keeping up with business, family and everything else that comes our way and to also have to nice to the WS and even OP, it just more than 1 person should handle. It takes me to the breaking point and right now I am not sure if I can return to a normal and sane life. But I will try. I have to. No one else will do it for me. The only one I have given my heart to has desserted me for another. I must release and let go. I must, I must. <P>L.<P><BR>

He is with her right now. He says they are talking. I am not sure what else they are doing. I can't take it any longer. I let him know not to come back and that his things will be in the garage. <P>I did not yell. I just spoke softly. I believe he tried to call back, but I could not answer the phone. <P>Please help me make it through this night. I am so scared. <P>Thank you.<P>L.<BR>

Oh Orchid hon!! ((((((((( ORCHID )))))))))<P>I don't know what to say, I really don't. I'm online for a while tonight. You can icq me at #125418054 if you'd like to. I'm here to listen if you need me.<P>Karen<BR>

Hi Karen,<P>Thank you for caring. I am on-line now with Faith1. She will try to get you in. <P>She is helping me cope. I feel like a wimp.....<P>L.<BR>

Faith1 and Karen,<P>Thank you for your personal support tonight. I am feeling a bit stronger. Not that things are better, they are the same but just talking with you girls has helped. <P>Again, thanks for being there it meant a lot. <P>Mahalo,<BR>L.<BR>

Anytime my dear... anytime. (unless of course H is doing the simcity thing... )<P>Karen<BR>