Hi everybody,<P>I need to get something off my chest that's burning me up - has been for the past couple of weeks - and which I want to share with you but can't bring myself to post. <P>In the wake of events in NY I feel even worse. For me, I've added to my already difficult marital situation. I've been incredibly weak and so very selfish. And I'm being even more so at this point in history. My problems are trivial, insignificant in comparison.<P>My thoughts are with those who lost their lives and with those who are right now endeavouring, in horrendous circumstances to clean up this mess. <P>- Freddy<P>

What did you doooooo? Is everything okay? Our "problems" are "opportunities" to trust God, nothing more...

BinThere,<P>not a good situation.....<P>- FreddyDunThat<P>Maybe I should change my handle?<p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 13, 2001).]

Freddy,<P>Now that you have half way mentioned whatever - I guess you will continue to get prodded until you 'spill your beans'. You are very right - in the wake of what has happened to our great nation - our little worlds are trivial - but put together they are a significant symptom.<P>So you are kicking yourself for 'whatever'. I am reading between your lines, but there is one word, one word which stands out and that is "weak". I will put it straight forward - sounds like you became a WS.<P>So . . . we are all subject to ups and downs, and doing things we might not be proud of. As long as you learn and don't repeat that mistake again that mistake is valuable. I don't really know what you are going to come out with - but I am sure that the events of the last few days may come a different outcome. hugs, aftershock

None of us are perfect. We all have made our share of mistakes. I fully agree. My problems have seemed extremely trivial considering what other people are going through right now. We are all here when your ready.

Hi after shock, Bin and everybody,<P>well, it might do me good to get this off my chest – and today is as good a day as any other. Just didn’t figure I’d do this in such a public conference but here goes.<P>About 5 weeks back I was off work for a week for my summer school. As background, I started a degree in Art and Literature this year – something I’ve always wanted to do and never had the time for it. I feel like I’ve given so much to everybody else for the past years that I’ve earned the right to do it. So I decided to start it this year, I really need to do something for me. <P>Anyways, I met a load of really nice people at ss and I was getting along really well with everybody. There was one women, she’s 38, a single mother with two boys and we hit it off from the first moment. We were just connecting on a lot of different levels. By the second evening we were already into some deep conversations and she told me about how her husband had left her for her best friend 6 years ago and since then she’s been alone. She told me about finding out about the affair through telephone bills and the like and I could just so relate to her story. I guess the pathos and empathy between us was huge.<P>So, on the third day she tells she she’d not slept all night long. I was concerned for her and said she obviously had something on her mind and that she could always talk to me if she needed to. After the dance that evening (there was an organised event everynight) she told me she’d like to talk with me, so we went back to her room. Once there, she leant over and kissed me. Then she told me that the reason she couldn’t sleep was me. I must have looked really stupid because I said I was sorry. Then she kissed me again and that basically led to her making love to me. Sounds crazy but she just took me. And I wanted it so much, I never stopped her. And this was a person very different from my wife. It was fantastic. She wasn’t frightened by sex – she wanted every part of me. I know this sounds stupid but she shocked me. After so many years of my W showing little or no interest sexually – this was so very different. I felt so alive, she made me feel so good that I have no regrets. That somebody could want me so much was like a hungry man finding McDonalds. It was an explosion of passion. Although she came four times, interestingly I couldn’t come at all. She did everything to me you can imagine but I just couldn’t relax mentally enough to go there. I told her that a hug was ok for me and she said that she could give me so much more, if only I’d let go. I knew I’d have to give something more of me for that to happen. And I struggled with that.<P>Over the next couple of days we grew closer together, slept with each other once more and then said goodbye on the Friday. She lives in another country so we haven’t seen each other since then but we do phone regularly. She wants me in her life, understands where I am in my relationship but wants to explore a relationship and what could be, with me. She says, she’s never connected with anybody as she did with me – not even her x-husband. <P>So, when I came home from my week away, my wife continued showing no interest. Obviously a major contrast. I took her (my WS) to NY two weeks back for our 9th wedding anniversary. Again, still no interest. In fact, one evening I went down to the bar at midnight to calm down after a ‘discussion’ (I don’t LB anymore!!!). I was sitting in the bar, alone, and just thinking this is so wrong. It’s all so screwed up. And that was the point – my turning point - when I decided to leave my W. Not that I wanted to be with the OW – I just wanted to be free for something else to fill my life and to get away from this feeling of mutual destruction. When we came home from NY, I told my W that I was moving out for 3-4 weeks and that I’d probably not be coming back. I told my her that I’d met somebody else and that we’d kissed. I told her that it had done my confidence a lot of good to realise that I’m not such a bad person after all and that other women do find me attractive. I told her that I realise that I had to let her go and that she had to find whatever it was that she was looking for. If she wanted her OM, then that was ok for me. I didn’t tell her that I’d slept with somebody else – and I didn’t tell her how the OW felt about me. So, this has turned my Ws world upside down.<P>Now, my W says she does love me. She’s just a little late realsing it. She’s really sorry for hurting me – two affairs later !!!! She knows she’s hurt me very badly and wants me to give her time to show that and to re-build my trust in her. I’m totally confused about my Ws reaction. She’s basically planAing me – something else which is perverse, especially as I was PlanAing her. I’m struggling to believe her because I think she’s playing a power game and she’s scared of loosing her material standing. <P>I’m not in any fog what so ever. I know I’m not in love with the OW. She’s a wondeful person and I want to see her again – hopefully as a friend – but another relationship is not what I want.<P>So, there you have it – a mess if you’ve ever heard of one – any thoughts?<P>Freddy<P><p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 14, 2001).]

Well at least you are not so stupid as to allow OW's lust to get to you and warp your brain into a fog!<P>I'm relieved to hear that. So do you think your A has snapped your wife out of her neglectful state? Do you plan to tell her everything?<P>Well you know what people are going to say here so I'll be the first one to say it, drop that OW, she is bad news! You are a fool to believe that you would not have sex with her again esp. since you enjoyed it so very much.<P>Go to the doctor and make sure she didn't give you a nasty little surprise, just for your own peace of mind and out of consideration for your wife.<P>After that, get back to the business of rebuilding romantic love within your marriage. It's in there! Water your own grass! It'll get green too!<P>Evidently you thought you needed that for an ego boost. Okay it's done, now forget about it and move forward!!! No judgments from me, just get back on track and forget OW! She's not looking out for your best interests. TRUST ME! SHE COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE!!!!! {{{{{hugs to you}}}}}

COME ON, Freddy!<P>After the THIRD day of knowing her, she jumps your bones?! Am I reading this correctly?! This is a lust connection if I ever read about one... and nothing more!<P>She couldn't get you to come??? In my day, that would represent some sort of a challenge, so don't think she doesn't want a second chance. Please drop her like a hot potato!!! ESPECIALLY since you don't want another relationship. Could she be pregnant? What if she is? You don't need to ejaculate in order to make a baby, ya know?

Bin,<P>I've got nice bones, man - I mean, I'd jump 'em too if I was a woman :-)<P>On the topic of diseases - she's not that kind of a woman. There's a lot more respect and care involved than that. I've only slept with one other woman in the last 13 years, so it's a long shot that either of us caught anything and she says she's only been with one other man in the last six years. On the topic of pregnancy - I'd have a higher chance of winning the powerball so there really is little chance.<P>What I'm trying to work out in my head is, is there a basis for my marriage to continue. That's a different question. Saying that I'm moving out has shocked my W into action - but is this the action of true love or is she just scared of loosing a father to her children, her house and her standard of living?<P>I've been busting my buns PlanAing my wife - don't forget that, Bin - I've had all that thrown back in my face, time and time again. I've been told she doesn't love me. I've seen the look on her face when she's lied and when she comes home late at night. I've been thru a lot of her crap, Bin. A lot. I've been told a lot of negative things about who and what I am. I'm feeling very angry and very bitter towards her. So a little bit of caring from somebody has done me a lot of good. Believe it.<P>I know I let you down, bin? you know, I feel worse because I let you guys down than I do about betraying my wife. Sad but true. That's the reason I had such a problem posting this. But I needed to tell you guys. Even if my W doesn't get to know exactly what happened I needed to be honest here.Ok? <P>- Freddy<P><p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 14, 2001).]

You aren't going to be truthful to your Wife?????<P>OMG all this talk about MB principals, and radical honesty, and here you are LYING to her.<P>All of you BS's rip the he** out of lying WS's....but this is OK???????? And here you are...one of your own talking in WS fog-ese (oh she's not like that, no danger of disease...someone you've known for 3 days and you can say that????)<P>What hypocrisy!

Lexxy,<P>Guess I expected that. Thanks.<P>I never said it was ok to lie. And I'm struggling with the radical honesty - what needs to be said, should be but I think the details can be spared. It's just a question of timing. <P>I understand the hypocrisy - that's why I posted. I really do understand how hard it is to practice MB principles. This isn't an easy path.<P>- Freddy<P>

Hey Freddy,<BR>Had to check in on you and this is my NAP time so consider yourself very well thought of. I don't feel like you let ME down, not at all. How come you feel like that? Life happens. We all make mistakes. Nobody's perfect. No one can point the finger at you. I was just concerned about your health is all.<P>If you think you can do better alone, then that is your decision alone. Don't be influenced by anyone standing on the outside because this is your life. You know what you can take and you know what you cannot take.<P>If you can stand in God's face (I know you are not religious, but...) if you can stand before your God with a clear conscience, then that is what matters. Your conscience is what you must live with every day.<P>What about your kid? Isn't it worth dealing with your wife's attempts at restoration for your kid? Enough of us have grown up in divorce and without fathers. Maybe if your wife knows that you are currently involved in an emotional affair, that would fuel her fire and desire for you even more--you know, if she felt threatened by another woman? Maybe she is not afraid of losing you as much as she is motivated to action in a positive direction?<P>It sounds like your mind is made up and you are fed up no matter what I say. I'm not here to chastise you. You're an adult. You have to live with your own decisions. I pray that you make the right ones for you and your loved ones.

Personally, I believe you still love your wife and that is why you couldn't give OW your chi... (is that how you spell it????)<P>You had the classic "revenge affair..."

Bin,<P>Thanks for the posting. It helps just to vent - get my dirty little secret off my (hypocritical) chest, so to speak. And 'fess up for all that happened - although I don't regret it.<P>I'm just confused. Just trying to work it out. That's all.<P>I always loved my W. Never stopped. She just stopped loving me - which hurt. It would have been easier if she'd left but I guess the creature comforts and the kids held her. <P>- Freddy<P><p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 14, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freddy:<P>On the topic of diseases - she's not that kind of a woman. There's a lot more respect and care involved than that. I've only slept with one other woman in the last 13 years, so it's a long shot that either of us caught anything and she says she's only been with one other man in the last six years. On the topic of pregnancy - I'd have a higher chance of winning the powerball so there really is little chance.<P>What I'm trying to work out in my head is, is there a basis for my marriage to continue. That's a different question. Saying that I'm moving out has shocked my W into action - but is this the action of true love or is she just scared of loosing a father to her children, her house and her standard of living?<P>I've been busting my buns PlanAing my wife - don't forget that, Bin - I've had all that thrown back in my face, time and time again. I've been told she doesn't love me. I've seen the look on her face when she's lied and when she comes home late at night. I've been thru a lot of her crap, Bin. A lot. I've been told a lot of negative things about who and what I am. I'm feeling very angry and very bitter towards her. So a little bit of caring from somebody has done me a lot of good. Believe it.<P>I know I let you down, bin? you know, I feel worse because I let you guys down than I do about betraying my wife. Sad but true. That's the reason I had such a problem posting this. But I needed to tell you guys. Even if my W doesn't get to know exactly what happened I needed to be honest here.Ok? <P>- Freddy<BR>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gee... Freddy....there's a whole lotta fog talk in here...<BR><I><BR>On the topic of diseases - she's not that kind of a woman. There's a lot more respect and care involved than that. </I><BR>(you knew her how long?...and you know her to be credible?)<P><I>is this the action of true love or is she just scared of loosing a father to her children, her house and her standard of living?</I><BR>(hmmm...I seem to remember many WS's posting to us this same kinda statement about why BS's still want them)<P><I>I'm feeling very angry and very bitter towards her. So a little bit of caring from somebody has done me a lot of good. Believe it.<BR></I><BR>(look deep down inside...it mighta felt good for the moment...but how about for the long haul? and why do you feel you let us down...why should we believe it?)<P><I>Even if my W doesn't get to know exactly what happened I needed to be honest here.Ok? </I><BR>(Nope...you need to practice radical honesty if you truly want to recover...)<P>Many BS's can probably totally understand why you feel you needed this from another...but Freddy you need to get really honest with yourself about this incident...<P>Hugs and Prayers,<BR>Cali<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

Freddy,<P> Tell the WHOLE truth. Damn-it man, you surely know that the truth should come out. Should have came out when you first told your W. Why would you not? You seem to have made up your mind as to what you intend to do. So tell her the truth.<P> Don't want to tell because of the hope to get back together and make M work finally??? TELL HER!!! Regardless of whether you stay together or not. She has the same rights as you did/do. She deserves to know so SHE can decide her next course of action. Whether that be plan a/b or divorce. <P> jd<p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited September 14, 2001).]

Yeah Freddy, Cali makes good points there... The reason why I said you weren't stupid enough to fall in love with the OW was because I believe what you said about not wanting another "relationship." <P>It seems to me as if you don't want your marriage either and might be looking for reasons to let it go, even tho you still care about your wife. If you didn't care, you wouldn't be feeling guilty. If you didn't care, it would have been so easy for you to just be free and go all the way with OW sexually. Something held you back... It was your conscience & your feelings that you have left for your wife! <P>You make it sound as tho attempts to reconcile on your wife's part are too little too late--as if you are making excuses to leave? Either that or are you just wanting to get back at her for all the pain you have been thru? (Revenge)<P>That's why I say do whatever you think you need to do because it sounds to me like your mind is made up already.

Freddy,<BR>My first thought when I read your explanation of what happened was, could this woman WANT to become an OW because of what her H and best friend did to her? She knows she can't get revenge on the best friend, but wouldn't someone else do just as well? Just a thought. I've had plenty of times at the beginning of this where I felt like I needed to go out and get good and FU**ED, just to feel better about me. But with God the guiding force for me, I know that is NEVER the answer. You should know that too. I pray for the FOG to lift from your eyes.<P>MOM

Cali,<P>good point, I'm looking real hard.<P>Bin,<P>I had made up my mind - my W's change of tact has me confused. As far as I'm concerned she was gone and I had to let her go - now she's done a 360 and wants back in. Which means that my A (revenge or otherwise) complicates the whole recovery process - if there is to be one. Now, I've betrayed her - so I know exactly how she's been feeling these past months when she looks at me with those eyes and can't finish sentences. Now that's a scary thought!!!!<P>MOM,<P>you're right.<P>JD,<P>you're also right.<P>- Freddy

FREDDY<P>I think your W is just telling you she doed not love you. My WH tells me the same thing and shows me no affection. This is the fog. Has told me for a year he was leaving but he is still here. I feel you need to give your M a chance. Don't beat yourself up for making a mistake. We all make plenty of them. Keep plan A ing for now and dump OW. I feel in the long run you will not be sorry.<P>------------------<BR>(spoken aloud from the mind) mine