I am having some seriouse issues with my attitude these last couple of weeks. I don't know if it is my attitude or just how I feel. <P>I don't have any motivation or energy, and I honestly don't care what happens in our marriage at this point. I have delt with numbness and the lost feelings I had for KS, and I am now feeling love for her, but I honestly don't care either way if we continue or not. KS is being very impatient with me, she wants me to get up and do something but I don't care, and if I do care I don't have the energy to do anything. She says I am being selfish for not wanting to do anything or help around the house, my answer is, I honestly wish I did, but I just don't care right now. Am I being selfish?<P>I feel if I am being selfish, I honestly don't care not to be, and I honestly feel this is my turn to be selfish...She didn't have a problem being selfish 4 TIMES and for 4 years of lies. I have asked her to be patient with me and support me while I mope around in my self pitty and with my lose of motivation to do those simple little house chores. She actually is complaining that I am not fullfilling her needs....I agree, but gosh don't I get a chance to mend my wounds, should I just be the superhuman and not let this all bother me and affect me. I am not asking much, I just ask for patients and understanding. I told her she should be lucky I am still here for her to complain about the fact that I am being completely useless at home. <P>I told her today that if she can't show a little compassion for what I am going through and be a little patient with me and just let me do my thing for a while, I don't want to continue. I honestly could care less at this point if we continue this marriage or not. I am willing to stay and in time, when I feel a little better and have a little more energy, I will do my part to work on this. For now I want nothing, I want to do nothing. I don't want to go see friends or clean the house...I don't want to go to work, That is the only thing I am actully doing even though I hate doing it. <P>How do I get the motivation back when she doesn't want to support me or even show that she tries to understand what I am going through. My life has been completely changed AGAIN 2 weeks ago and she expects me to just feel better and go out with friends and pretend to be happy. I am not happy, and I am not willing to go put on that happy face so that they all can have a good time. <P>I am afraid if she doesn't put a little effort and show a little compassion, I will not care myself right into D, and the scarry thing is I just don't care either way.

Separation did wonders for me. Maybe you just need space and time to think about it all. If you have your own place you can leave it as messy as you want. You can evaluate what you really want. If you want your marriage, you will have to work on it, if you don't then spend a couple months finding out what it will be like to be apart. She can't relate, for whatever reason, to what your going through. I got to the point where I didn't want my marriage and filed for divorce. My husband and I were separated for 4 months. I was unwilling to work on our marriage. But now we are back together and we are both working on it. <P>Also, are you on antidepressants? I really recommend them. If you are then you can talk to your counselor about FLMA - it is a government policy that allows an employee to take off work - usually 12 weeks (3 weeks with pay and 9 without pay) and be guaranteed their job back. The counselor that prescribed your meds will need to fill out a form for you to take this family medical leave. It sounds like you are depressed - surprised? i didn't think so.<BR>I had to do that too - I took off 3 weeks then returned to work. <P>

Thanks Notheard,<P>I do agree, I am probably a bit depressed. I just went to the doc. on Friday to get some anti-d meds and I am starting to take them, but they don't start working for about a week. <P>I have thought about seperation, We cant afford to seperate unless we sell our house. We have worked so hard to get to where we are and I would hate to have to start all over again. I could stay with my parents for a while, they are usually in San Diago on their boat. They usually stay their for 2 months and come back for about 3 weeks at a time, it seems like this is now their vacation home rather than the boat. I think I am just to proud to ask to stay at their house, and I am also afraid they will say no. <P>I do like the idea of seperation, yet I did promise to commit to 6 months of working things out and I promised I wouldn't leave her in that period. Hopefully the drugs will do some good when they start working, and maybe I won't have to think more on the seperation idea.<P>Thanks again.

Hi there,<P>I don't know your story other than what you have written right here but I can say for sure that you are suffering depression. You rpost sounds jsut like my own thoughts. Sadly I could care less if my life were to end right this minute. The pain of the last 28 months is jsut too much for me.<P>On the other hand, the person you are hurting the most is yourself. I am fully aware that I am hurting myself-I just can't seem to shake myself out of this mode. But if you or I continue this pattern we probably won't get better because it will become a habit.<P>What meds did you start? I just started Prozac three days ago. I was on Paxil several times over the last year and a half but wanted to try not being on medication. It diodn't work so I went on the Prozac.<P>If you aren't motivated-then motivate yourself Good advice coming from someone in the same boat huh? YOu deserve to be happy-but you have to make yourself that way.<P>Good luck to you-<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Thanks heartache,<P>I am now on Serzone. I actually was taking Wellbutrin that i had left over from about 2 years ago when I used it to quit smoking. That was more of a self medication cause I wasn't prescribed Wellbutrin for depression, but it sure worked for me. I asked the doc for Wellbutrin, but he told me it wasn't covered on the insurance. We went to the counselor today and she told me we were, there must be some strange reason my doctor isn't willing to prescribe it. I was advised to go to a psychiatrist to get the prescription, maybe I will do that...I am going to give this stuff a chance for now.<P>I havn't gotten to the point of not caring if I live or die, I am sorry you feel that way. I hope I don't get to that point. I went through this when I learned of the one A 3 months ago, but I pulled out of it just fine. I just learned 2 weeks ago of 3 more As and it is much harder this time. I think this is how I am mentally blocking all the bad feelings out...or at least trying to block them out. I don't like feeling like this at all, I hate being so tired. The first d-day I cried like a baby, this time I haven't shed a tear, I just don't have much feeling at all this time.<P>Thanks heartache...I hope the meds help you, as well as me.

cripes sem you are starting to sound like me now, and it is scareing me. No need to analyze this to death, you have had an emotional shock, some paranoic episodes, and are probably sufftering some kind of traumatic stress syndrome. KS doesn't know what to do, so is defaulting to the nagging wife technique, plus has her own stress issue, which you are not inclined to minister to either. I think you should both just go bowling or something, maybe eat some hot fudge sundaes, let the house go except for absolute necessities, when it gets dirty enough the urge to clean up, whatever, will probably return. You are both on record as choosing each other, wanting it to work, thinking it can work... just relax, let time do a little healing.....you can always fight later.

Gosh SnL, I'm getting all choked up now. That ment a lot, thanks. That is exactly what I wanted to hear. I hope KS will listed. Thanks.

SNL,<P>I would love to let the house get messy, but Thursday I have a tupper ware party which I planned months ago. Then I want the house to stay clean cause we are having our childern's b-day party on oct.13th. After that I could care less, well actually I don't like living in a pig sty. I grew up in one and now perfer not to.<BR>I would love to go bowling or go out, You want to watch our kids? SEM doesn't like chocolet, so ice cream would have to do. <P><BR>I feel like I'm trying to be paient and comfort my H, but he doesn't feel that. I feel like I'm bending over backwards trying to keep him happy. But I guess I am failing. I am going insane trying to keep the house clean, work 32-40 hrs a week, be a full time mother, support my H's needs, and take care of my own. (sigh)God I could really use some help here!!! God? Sherry

SEM,<P>Again I understand what you are going through. I don't think I cleaned house for two months after d-day. The dishes and things got done but not the vacuuming etc. It is depression. I hope your meds start working soon. One thing about taking 2 year old meds is that they may not work anymore. Not a good idea. <P>JS needs to realize that you have, once again, been hit by one of life’s worst blows. It is too much for a person to deal with. If she wants your marriage to work she is going to have to cut you some slack right now. I am sure that she would like to think that her affairs are not really that big a deal. But they are. I wish there was something I could say to her to make her understand what it feels like to find out these things. By the 4th week after d-day I was totally non-functional and needed antidepressants to just get through the day. I was sick to my stomach for about 3 months after d-day, could not concentrate at work for 4 months or more. I still just don’t have the passion for work that I used to. Just cannot get it back. I want to be home every day. You have been hit by one of life’s worst blows, again. <P>This is JS's chance to help you heal, to show you love and compasion. It will go a long way to help you forgive her and learn to trust her.<P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb, what's with you and all the JS's does KKKKKeep smiling have some other name I don't know about?<P>KS KS KS ..... is second post today I have noticed you doing that (JS)....thought it was just a typo at first since next to each other....but this is driving me nuts...will you plz explain?

ks...I would love to let the house get messy, but Thursday I have a tupper ware party which I planned months ago. <P>snl...So what happens if messy, they will think you area terrible person? Look it, you neat people (I am married to one) are terrific to have around, but ya gotta relax. 10 minutes before party throw everything that is messy in some other room, and run the vac...voila, no problem. Forget the dusting, window cleaning, furniture polishing and all that other crapola that no one (except the person doing it) cares about anyways. As for the b-day 3 WEEKS from now!!!!!!! (that is a lifetime) worry about that day before, same procedure, gaurantee the kids could care less whether the kitchen floor is polished, if the parents care, hand em a broom and mop.<P>ks....well actually I don't like living in a pig sty. <P>snl...Hmmm sounds suspicious, bet on your worst day house probably looks cleaner than 90% of the homes in central america.<P>ks....I grew up in one and now perfer not to. <P>snl...Why am I wincing, are YOU wincing sem, anyone else wincing, or is it just me, that "prefer not to" feels like a loaded gun, why is that, who knows, I am just a crazy ws anyways.<P>ks...I would love to go bowling or go out, You want to watch our kids? SEM doesn't like chocolet, so ice cream would have to do. <P>snl...you bet, thinker is terrific with kids, if you are within 100 miles of detroit, come on over. Otherwise FIND a baby sitter, where do you live, on the moon or sometin? Ok, if hot fudge is out, how about home made lemon meringue pie (real lemon, no concentrate) ummmmmmmmm.<P>ks....I feel like I'm trying to be paient and comfort my H, but he doesn't feel that. I feel like I'm bending over backwards trying to keep him happy. But I guess I am failing. <P>snl...so ask em what he wants. There I just saved ya $120 (what we paid jennifer for that advice tonight....well she did have a few other things to say) in fact....here is some other harley advice hot off the press for homework<P>1. Daily, in morning when get up, voice a committment to each other to protect from LB, (we is having serious problems with that lately, maybe you don't need it)<P>2. Give each other a list of things YOU think you are doing to meet EN of spouse, let them tell you what is working and what is not, make note, and CHANGE those that are not working..... I gotta think encouraging sem to get off his lazy butt is probably not meeting his need for admiration.<P>3. At end of day have compiled a list of how YOU protected your spouse (how many times bit tounge, did not educate, did not complain etc,), and how many love bank deposits were placed in your love bank.<P>Anyone who uses this plz send check to help defer collection costs of information, if you have any questions you would like asked submit them by next tuesday, will see what I can do.... <P>ks....I am going insane trying to keep the house clean, work 32-40 hrs a week, be a full time mother, support my H's needs, and take care of my own. (sigh)God I could really use some help here!!! God? Sherry<P>snl..Insane? What a whiner, sounds like an average work load for the typical american supermom, no wonder sem is upset bi*** bi*** bi*** typical woman.<P>(psst sem, my gameplan is to get her focused on ripping my head off, then you can join her in recreational snl bashing, depositing massive love bank stuff, and crisis over, pretty cool huh?).<P>

Eric, it is time brother. Time to release some of that pent up stress. Time to begin to start to heal from this new blow. For yourself, and for Sherry. Give some of this up to God, Eric. The stress is going to kill you, or kill the thing we all know you cherish, your family.<P> Give some of it over and forget about it. You know I have just come from the same place as you. Once I searched my very soul and finally gave some of this over to The Lord, I have felt a lot better. But I had to give a big portion up. That was very hard for me, and if you would like I can explain why, but it is the one thing which I had not truly done. Just payed lip service to my spiritual side. <P> Email me when you want to talk more. I have been extremely busy with whatever, but I will make time to talk more with you. I apologize for not being around more. <P> (Sorry for the typos, )<P> jd<P>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited September 25, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited September 25, 2001).]

Wow, good advice SNL. You are amazing at times, you know that? Eric take him up on it. Hey I am fairly certian that some others of us would be happy to join in and give you guys a hand bashing ole snl <P> IE, the housework. Please KS, listen to snl on this one. A tupperware party just is not on the scale of most important reasons to clean the house to the point of....ahem....what snl said, bi*ching over. <P> Go catch a movie, take an extra long walk, romantic dinner?<BR>What else can one do where you guys live that you both enjoy? Hey, take in a Broncos game at the new stadium...well that may not be that exciting for you. But hey, there are a million other things you both must enjoy. Just get out and have a little fun. You have NOT forgotten how to do that. Have you? Go up into the mountians....????<P> jd

SNL,<P>LOL, thanks for catching me on this. For some reason I always think of her as "Just Smiling" instead of "Keep Smiling".<P>KS, I appologize. The only excuse I have is that I am so stressed right now that did not take the time to double check. <P>OK, SNL? I'll try to do better.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

ok.... I thought it was just smiling....jeez maybe we think alike too.

SNL...<P>I'm just loosing my mind these days. Sometimes life gets so complicated and so "exciting". I could really take boring right now.<P>If you really see me loosing it here, just let STL know that he'd better check up on me 'cause I finally crossed into a state of insanity. <P>Arrrrrrrr<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Dangit, SnL!<P>I just get through chewing you all up in another thread and here I find you offering some great advice to another couple just like you understand the things you seem to be so confused about elsewhere!!!<P>Yer drivin' me nuts!<P>But hat's off to ya!<P>SEM--I know a lot about how you feel, having felt much like that myself! KS, he's right to be thoroughly angry--but SEM, give some of that anger up or it'll wear you down to nothing and you won't be in any shape to see how hard KS is working for you both. She can't undo anything from the past, she can only work in the present for your future. Sure, be mad about the past--in my case I sure am; a kind of rage that scares me if I dwell on it--but my attention is on what we are doing now for our lives together. Not easy after what we've been through, but it's the only way to go if there is to be an "us", and I've decided that's what I want. You can get there too.<P>Wishing you both happiness....

I am at that point. Yes we had counseling with Jennifer last night. I am downstairs trying to sleep, H is on the computer (in our bedroom) till 2:45am and I am so irritable that the clicking of his keys has made it difficult to sleep. So I told him I am going downstairs to sleep. Can't sleep, I feel like crawling up the walls. <P>Life is not good here. I am dealing with my father who may have cancer. Will know this coming Thursday. Found out last week he has a 4" tumor between his eyes, he is deteriating, and the tumor wasn't there in April with the MRI. They can't operate cause the tumor wrapped itself around a main vessel to the brain.<P>I am not going to go in the past. One of the things Jennifer told us not to do. How can you work forward when you constantly go in the past? I was not that bad of a wife. So take what SNL says and do what you want with it. I do love him, but I am about to the end of my rope. I need compassion, love, touching, talking, caring, holding, and no coercerin actions. My EN are not getting met very much. H asks what they are, I have told many times, filled the EN questionaire and have asked for feet rubs, told him that is one thing I really love. <P>During the last 4 or 5 weeks, H and our one daughter had surgery to remove warts from the bottom of their foot. I did all my H dressings, got the tub to soak his foot in, dressed his foot, gave him medication for pain. I brought his 3 meals to his computer upstairs, brought him drinks, gave his vitamins to him, made him rootbeer shakes, or whatever shake he wanted. All he had to do was ask, and I was willing to do. I am a caregiver. I did do my daughters foot for the first 3 or 4 dressings, her foot was much worse than her dads. She went pale the first time she did her foot after surgery, and had a hard time eating that day. So I told her let me do it, I am not practicing as an LPN now, but I would love to take care of you, She agreed and the next 2 days were made easier for her to handle the ugliness of her foot. <P>I am going on service calls with H, cause I want to. I find the calls interesting and enjoyed being with my H. My bookwork gets behind and I get behind with household duties. H has told me several times he feels quilty that I am getting behind. We own our own business. <P>Another problem we have is conversation. We can't find anything to talk about. I am tired of talking about what is marriage, what is in-love, what is fitting, what is, what is. This is so negative to trying to get ahead. Told Jennifer about this, and the agreement is to talk positive. Get a newspaper and talk about the events in the paper every day. Sounds good to me. Maybe we shouldn't be married, maybe we don't fit. I am starting to believe that right now about 90%. I want to go to a hole and just sit for about a month and do nothing. There are too many demands on me. Also, we have a funeral to go to Friday, Grandpa died last week in Minnesota, and he is being flown out for a little service here, to be buried next to his wife. I wonder if Grandpa ever wondered if he and grandma fitted, were oneflesh, etc.?<P><BR>I am trying to met his first 5 EN. Conversation is not going well. I am not what he wants in conversation. Like Jennifer said tonight, I can learn and H can accomodate too.<P>Just stating, that one gets down, depressed, and pure burnt out and don't care anymore. I am pretty close to that point. Our boys brought in my house plants, what is left. I let a lot die, sold a lot at a garage sale and really don't care if the ones brought in die either. The weather is turning cold here. Our house is a mess, kitchen table has not been seen in who knows how long. Can't even sit on the chairs, stuff on them too. H and I worked on the back room cleaning it and starting to organize it. So a lot of stuff got put out on the table and chairs. It is not just a little, it is a pile so high. I feel my life crumbling and I feel so lonely, and lost of feelings. Don't get me wrong, I care about people and love my H, kids, family.<P>I don't know how to help you, cause I feel the same way. Are you on antidepressants - I am. I asked Jennifer if I should call my dr. and see about increasing the dosage. She said I should. I am so sorry I can't help, but to tell you you are not the only one who feels this way. Maybe there will be more help from others. I will not post here anymore on this thread. Will be looking for answers.<P>I am so tired of not being #1 in my H eyes. I know he does not love me, but loves the OW. She and him fit. So I guess, I will talk with him later today. I have offered this to him before. Leave if you want H, go to your soulmate, oneflesh, your fitting, cause you keep saying on the boards we will never fit. I don't want you staying here because you have to. You stated that you don't want to stay here, but are trying. I am losing any hope, and actually today didn't care to have hope. Jennifer talked to me pretty much by myself for 45 miinutes. She said you are stressed out, take it easy, do something for yourself. Quit giving to others, and don't do as much for Joe. For this week she gave me some alternatives to do for myself. Maybe at the end of this week I will feel like continuing on and living. Right now, I don't care if I die tonight. <P>Jennifer did say, I need to be there for my parents. So I talked to my mom tonight, and said I would like to go to the hospital with her thursday morning when they tell my parents the news of my dad. Doctors already warned her last week it doesn't look good. She said be there for H but take it easy. One thing she said, if in the morning we can't say to our spouse I cannot protect you today, and then we POJA, I will not go on a service call with him at that time. Maybe later I will. <P>She said you are going to have a difficult time, and with my dad, this is going to be tremendously difficult. I am going to sign up for grieving classes, and who knows maybe a psychiatrist. I need someone to talk about this PA my H had, and the talk of him continuously saying she is the only one he will ever love. Why should he have to work on a marriage that will not work. Why couldn't he and her just be and they would have a good marriage. He states this so much on the boards, and of course I read them.

Thinker,<P>I am sorry to hear what you are going through. I know I don't have it the worst here, but I know I am having a real difficult time with all this. I never immagined she would have had 4 As, I figured at least one, and possibly 2, but four was not something I had ever thought I would be able to cope with. <P>I can see what you mean by SnL being negotive, I have had problems reading some of his threads because he seems like he is having many questions about what life and love really are. I have had questions about dying, and the after life, and God, I question if there might not be anything after we die, and with that nothing we do now would mean anything no matter what we do. If we have nothing when we die, no memory, no feelings, no thought or emotions, nothing, what does life give us, nothing in the end. Nothing matters in what we do or when we die, how do we know this isn't the case? I think we will all find out, and personally I am leaning toward faith in God. I wouldn't want to just do anything I want to find out that I should have had faith. I think that is why most do have faith: they don't want to believe we won't have anything when they die...or at least that is my case. <P>My point is, SnL needs to stop pondering on life and love, and start living and loving, that is where we find the answers to these things, not in questioning them but doing them. I need to take my own advice, I am just still on that step back trying to figure out how to battle all this. <P>I have noticed SnL seems to go through moods and sometimes he isn't very well liked, for instance on my thread last week, I didn't appreciate him to much, but I am comming around. I can say after reading his last couple of posts I am really starting to thing he is a nice guy when he wants to be. I was suprised. I hope he comes around for you. I hope I come around for me and my W. <P>Good luck to the both of you.<P>Sorry I am short on time, I will try to address each of you later. Thank you all.

Thinker,<P>I am so sorry to hear what you two are going through. It's sounds like a lot of confusion. Just curious, have the two of you ever made a list of the positive aspects of eachother? Maybe you can also make a list of things you each like to talk about and compare, see if anything matches then talk about that. Sometimes we talk about our opions on world issue's. Like Guns and roseie O, and how we would run things if we where in charge. Talk about child imaginations!? LOL. Sometimes it helps to start over by asking the basic questions. ( what's your favorite color, animal, food, position, fragrence, music, hair style, ect.) I still ask Eric to see if anything has changed. Maybe the two of you could take some time out just for eachother and do your hobby's together. Eric and I make candles together, play cards, chess, and my favorite, wrestle ( that's a work out). Just some things to try. Good Luck. Sherry