Indy,<P>If you are set on giving the children to your wife, at least keep your parental rights. Your lawyer probably told you that you can have joint legal custody and give her physical custody.<P>That way, you can still be part of their life even if on your own terms. <P>Remember that you can sign away your custody but you cannot sign away your responsibility. You are still required by law to give financial support. While you are in the military, you can draw dependent benefits for them. This will help.<P>I'm curious, you say that you were a terrible father and husband. What on earth did you do that was so terrible?<P>Z

Indy, <P>Making life decisions on either end of the emotional spectrum is not healthy. Please rethink where you are, will be and where your family is. <P>It may not be my place to say this, but they are your family no matter where they are and though you may put miles between you, if you are the 1/2 the man I see here on this thread, that distance will not matter. Your heart will still ache for them no matter what. <P>Blood is thicker than water. This is true. You are no a bad father. You want to go and fight? Then fight for your family. Your children need to be with their half sister? Yes. They can visit. Will it impact your chldren and step daughter? Yes. Any decision will impact them. <P>Sacrifice the few for the many? No, that is not what is happening here. I believe you know that. <P>I am sorry if my words are hurting you. I just want you to be able to really see where your decision may take you. Oh how I wish I could help you more. <P>Please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. <P>Take care,<BR>L.

Z, <P> My lawyer and I talked about the situation, and he stated that I could give the kids to her and that I could sign over my rights. I would have to wait until about six months after they got married. He said that he is tabling the case for a month. That is to give me time to figure out what I want to do. If I do give her the kids we will do it in a way that she would agree to no child support for the period that she had them until the adoption was final. Once the adoption was complete I then would drop all the depn stuff out of the system. Then it would be as if I never existed.<P>I was a bad father, because I didn't do the thinks at home that I should have done. I shouldn't have helped the couple of friends that I know through div. I shouldn't have worked late. I should have come home and started the housework, instead of sitting on the couch. Then maybe my WS would have thought that I am worth something. <P>Indy<p>[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]

Oh Indy, I don't know you, but BOY!, do I know your pain!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Indy, I'm going to talk about something I rarely talk about on this forum... and I'm talking about it because you are WORTH opening myself up for on this:<P>My natural father died when I was only months old. My mother remarried when I was two years old, and my new dad legally adopted me. My mother had issues with my birth father, so she basically pretended he didn't exist, and never even saved a picture. I always adored my dad (still do!!), but always felt, still feel, that a part of me is missing. Because I missed out on knowing my father. <P>Also Indy, I have three children. My two oldest are legally adults (over 18) and my youngest is 17, a son. I live 4000 miles away from my kids with my new H. My ex-H has our son, who stayed for lots of reasons, and it seemed a good idea for all of us (except me, whose heart was broken). <P>No, I didn't sign away my rights, but my ex is the custodial parent of our son. I see my kids four or five times a year, and have been gone one year.<P>We went to counseling before I left, the kids and I, and worked through many issues. It would seem that I was doing what "was best" for all concerned.<P>But let me tell ya...<P>If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have. <P>The difference is, they will always be my children, and I will always be their mother. Whether I did a crappy job or not... they will always know that I'm their mother and that I love them, despite some poor choices.<P>Indy, YOU WON'T HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY.<P>Please don't do this. You aren't doing your children any favors... they need their father, even if he's made some poor choices...<P>I am sending you peace, dear Indy, and some hope for a brighter tomorrow... and I'm also saying a prayer for you tonight.

Nyneve,<P> Thanks for sharing your story. I saw the pain that it caused you to write that message. I understand what you are saying, but I feel like the kids will be alright. There mom and everyone will be happy. I told her that I loved her enough to die for her, well that is pretty much what I have done. The loving man that I was is dead. I don't want anything but my family back. That is were I always got my strength from. That was my motivation. That has been destroyed. I have no motivation. I had it early on in this. I though that I was special and worth something to my WS. I guess that I was wrong. I know now that everything that she said to me was a lie. She mostlike never loved me. She just settled for me. I just wish her happiness and the kids would be happier with her than with me. I will never be happy again. The only thing that will make me happy is to have my family together again. But, like I have said before I know that I am not worth that. Thanks<P>Indy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by INDY_357:<BR><STRONG>I had my shot at happiness and I blew it. I was a terrible husband and a terrible father. I don't deserve to be either.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Indy - <BR>First - are you really in Indy? Maybe we should find a Bob Evans and have a cup of coffee.<P>You can't honestly believe that you are responsible for your wife's failings. Please tell me you do not take responsbility for what she did??!!<P>NO, no, no. My marriage failed because my husband quit, not because I was a lousy wife. In fact, I'd love to have a wife like I was to him. Good grief - to have someone think I was so wonderful. Geez. Your wife quit, too - that does not make YOU a failure. It makes us both terribly sad and angry - but not failures.<P>Seriously, if you want to have a cup of coffee, let me know. I'm not hitting on you, Indy - that's about the last thing either of us needs - and you're probably way too young for me anyway!! <P>Sometimes it helps US to try to help OTHERS. It's kinda like self-talk - you know you should be doing and believing all these things you're spouting (which I'm really good at) - and in a round-about way it kind helps.<P>My other name is SadinIndy.<BR>Teresa<BR>(I spend most of my time on the D/D forum)

billbailey,<P> Yes, I really am in Indy. I was raised here. I moved back here from NC. That is were I was stationed at before. I wouldn't mind meeting for a cup of coffee. There is a Bob Evans close to where I live. Just let me know when.<P>Indy

Indy -<BR>Let me know if you want to take this to email. Mine is rdreher@mindspring.com<P>I'm actually in Columbus - I'm trying to think of a place off I-65 near Greenwood?<P>Maybe Sat. afternoon? Schedules get busier and busier as kids get older.<P>Teresa

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by INDY_357:<BR><STRONG> I understand what you are saying, but I feel like the kids will be alright. There mom and everyone will be happy. </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Indy, I certainly will not deny that you love your children's mother with all of your heart and soul, and that your life will never be the same. I will give you that pain to hold on to...<P>But, your children, who you think will be alright, and "everyone" who will be happy -- <P>I thought that too. I'm sure my mother thought the same when she kept her secret. <P>Indy, I am nearly 43 years old, and I still harbor these feelings... I'm an old lady [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] and I've never forgotten. My children are young adults, and I'm sure that my leaving, no matter what their ages, will always impact them in some way. Yes, maybe they'll see it as a sacrifice (as yours will most likely as well)... but at what cost?<P>Indy, I agree with your lawyer... give this a month... sit on it yourself... make no decisions now, while your heart is still on fire... there is time...<P>Still praying for you!

billbailey,<P> I tried to send you an email. I don't know if it worked or not. I will try my military accout.<P>Indy

billbailey,<P> I just sent you an email from my military accout. I still signed it as Indy so that you would know who it was from.<P>Indy

Indy,<P> Talk to me Man, Send me an e-mail. jdmac1@yahoo.com.<P> I know how you feel brother. If you have kept up on my story at all you know I have felt, and still do feel, the same way as you.<P> I have lost just about everything there is to lose. First my wife moves out and the children(4)stay with me. Wife does not try to change their minds. Then she talks to them and my boys decide to move in with her.<P> My daughter wants no part of living with her mother. Then all the sudden, after a few weeks, wife even talks daughter into moving in with her. <P> I feel as if my life is over, just as you do. I feel like such a failure, just as you do. I have wanted to die in the worst way, just as you seem to. What did I have to live for anyway? Hell I lost everything that meant anything to me.<P> I found out in March that my wife had had an affair(d-day #1). We went through some good times after that, and some bad. But I THOUGHT we were getting better. Then I found out about OM #2(second d-day). When W came in that night I hugged and kissed her, then talked calmly that I knew she had 2 Affairs. <P> I still wanted to save my marriage. In the end she decided to move out to find herself. She came over everyday, and spent some nights, and we even made love several times after she moved out. Then she talks the kids into leaving me.<P> But she still comes over almost every day. She tells me she loves me each time. Then last Friday I had planned to do something special, just the two of us, that night. Sigh!!! When I went to pick her up my kids said she had went walking.<P> We went looking for her. The kids told me when I returned that W was at a mans house and would not come home with them when they asked her to.<P> This story is posted on another thread. I have no proof, but everyone here knows what she is doing. And if everyone is wrong we all know what she is doing is not right for someone who has had 2 affairs. <P> In the meantime I am the one to suffer. Yes, I have lost just about everything a person could lose. <P> But not really. My kids DO still love me. They need me even IF they do not live with me. My W cares for me, EVEN IF she cannot be faithful to me. MY Mother and brothers and sister loves me, EVEN if I don't divorce my W. And YES, MANY people here on MB care about me, just as I care about you INDY.<P> Knowing that all these people care and love me does not make it all better. I still feel just as you feel. It doesn't make it all better, but it DOES help, it DOES keep me going. <P> Please do not give up on those that do love you and those that do care about you. Your presence for them means the world to them.<P> Email me if you like, jdmac1@yahoo.com<P> STAY STRONG AND GOOD LUCK,<P> jd

Indy,<BR>Please just sit on this and get some counselling..you are in crisis right now and any decision will be a bad one. I know you want the pain to stop...it won't for a while, so you need some help to get through it.<P>Do not be hasty in the decision about your kids..it may look impossible to raise them alone, but it is not..I am proof positive. They have had their share of problems, but we work through them.<P>I know you feel disposable right now. That is the feeling your children will have to carry for the rest of their lives...ask mine..it's hell to get over.<P>Doing nothing at all is not a bad decision right now...get help and take care of yourself. There are a lot of people keeping you in their hearts today.<BR>T

Indy -<P>I got both of your emails, but apparently you didn't get my reply to the first one. <P>I replied to the second one this morning - so I'll wait to see if that one goes thru.<P>t.

All,<P> I would like to thank everyone for there heart felt replys. I know that you all said what you feel, but I know that this is the direction that my life is supose to go. Thanks for all of your help over the last 9 months. <P>Indy

STL/Z,<P> I thanked everyone else with my last reply, but I feel like I nee to thank you both for everything that you guys have done for me. I hope that everything on your end is ok. I thought alot about what everyone posted to me the other night, but like I said in the earlier post. I still feel this is the best thing for everyone involved. It is better for my WS, the OM, and the kids. They will be together again. I won't get in the way of that. The kids will forget about me and the life that we had before this with time. I am sure that I will think about them from time to time. I also know that there are dads on this board that would kill to be in my postion. It isn't everyday that a dad gets the kids in situations like this. I will call the lawyer on monday and tell him to get the paperwork ready. I will give my WS all of the things that were in our house. That way her and the OM will not have to send alot of money on getting things for the house. Instead they can spend that money on getting a good house for the kids. I will of course still save for the kids college. I feel that is the least that I can do. I hope that all of the things that are going on in your neck of the woods will calm down. Take care.<P>Indy

Sorry double post.<P>Indy<p>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by INDY_357:<BR><STRONG>STL/Z,<BR> I still feel this is the best thing for everyone involved. It is better for my WS, the OM, and the kids. They will be together again. I won't get in the way of that.<BR></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You got sucked in her fog. I was goin crazy thinking it all my fault until I found out about A that is going on probably for 5.5 years !!!.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <STRONG>The kids will forget about me and the life that we had before this with time. I am sure that I will think about them from time to time. I also know that there are dads on this board that would kill to be in my postion. It isn't everyday that a dad gets the kids in situations like this.<BR></STRONG> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your kids will never forget about you ... one thing that my daugther told me that she will never call OM, DAD !!!. They are quite but they know you try hard and they will appreciate what you have done for them. Calm down and enjoy the time spend with them. I told my D that we will have fun (even W is straying outside w/ OM) and we will cherish the time that we have.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> {QB] ... I feel that is the least that I can do. I hope that all of the things that are going on in your neck of the woods will calm down. Take care.<BR>[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Indy, I understand that you wants to do the noble thing but what if OM is bad to your W & kid ?. Calm down, wait until next week again. If you still decide to do it, please put your house and property in the trust fund for your kid and also ask your W to do the same. As for coustody, you want it join coustody ... your kid might think that you abonden them or give them away to OM. They are kid and they have their own mind.

Indy,<P>Why am I not convinced by this? Sorry to be the eternal optimist but usually I am a pessimist...... LOL!!! <P>Give all so that it is easier for the OM? Your W and children I understand but why make it easier for the OM? <P>Now I ask, if your W changes her mind where will you stand? Are your decisions going to make it impossible to turn around? What about if your children want to be with you? Will you be able to change your decision for them? I ask because I know how the military can be once a decision is made. <P>Please Indy think and pray about this real carefully. If my words are bothersome, hey you can cast me aside. It is alright. I just want you to make as clear a decision as possible at the right time. A hasty decision in this matter is not good. Your children are young only once. This part of their life, they will never go through again. <P>No child forgets their parents even if their parents are good or bad. Indy, you are not a bad father. You provided for your children. <P>I will share an experience with you, my H was abandoned at a rest stop by his family for 4 hours when he was around 7 years old. That was not the first time, when he was 5 years old his family moved out of their home and he came home from school to an empty home. I am not sure if I told you this story before but my H has many adult issues as a result of this and more. No child should have to deal with this. <P>I am not saying you are abandoning your family. I am saying this to let you know that despite how my H was treated by his parents, this man still will stick up for his mom. Why? Because someplace deep down, he loves his parents. Even though they did do him wrong. <P>A child has a strong love. Your children have that love for you and I know you love them. Make that a strong part of your decision Indy. Please. You will always be their dad no matter where you go. No OM can take that away from you. <P>Ok, I said my peace. ........<P>{{{Indy}}}<P>L.

Orchid and Redhat,<P> Thanks for replying. To answer a few questions. My WS will never change her mind. I have no family without her and my stepdaughter. If you think that I am abandoning my family I am not. I am trying to give my kids a good childhood. They can have a better one with my WS. She will give them a new family with the OM. I will never give them another family. I will never be with someone else. I already found the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with. Unfortuantly, I am not worth that much. The OM is and will be a good father to the kids. I will never be that for them. That man is long gone. He was killed by my WS. So, I might as well pack up my bags and get ready for my next duty station. I most likely will be stationed over seas. I should find out in the next couple of weeks.<P>Indy