RE: I think that it is time that her little vacation be ended. <P>What do you mean by this? Please explain...<P>Z

Z,<P> This whole time I have been paying for the van that my parents bought for us in March 2000. BTW, I saw the OM driving my van. I couldn't believe it. I have paid all of our outstanding debts. I didn't really push for child support. I won't hit her when she finally would see the kids. I have listened to her and I also paid for her auto insurance. I think that this would be defined as a vacation. Wouldn't you? You didn't answer my question about STL. Is he on the road again?<P>Indy

Yep, sounds like a vacation to me. Wish I could find someone to do that for me.... while I did what ever I wanted to.<P>RE: I won't hit her when she finally would see the kids.<P>Ugh, what does this mean? <P>I've been writing you a really long response and had not posted it yet. But here's the response to your question about STL.... will post the rest in a minute or so.<P>STL is downstairs in his office writing a magazine article and evaluating the related software. He has a bad cold and sore throat but will not stop working. I swear he is possessed. The project he was working on the last two weeks really burned him out… he got almost no sleep and is paying for it now. In a little bit I’m going to have to go coax my sicky upstairs to make sure he takes good care of himself.

Indy,<P>I am sorry to hear that it’s been another bad day for you. You know there was something I did when I first found out about STL’s affairs. I swear that I almost lost my mind. I as going crazy with images… you know the kind. What I think finally saved my sanity was that I started to redirect my thoughts. Every time I had a thought I did not want, I forced myself to think of something else. It was hard at first but it worked. You see, all of the bad thoughts and images sure make you hurt worse.<BR>I thought that you were in a modified Plan B. Only very minimal discussion about the kids. Practice keeping your conversations on subject. I know it’s hard and she catches you off guard when she calls. But try it, for your own sanity.<BR>The other thing about a modified Plan B is that you should still Plan A her when you are talking to her. Your reaction about the kids is a really big love buster. I know it is hard but Plan A her. You need to show her what she is missing, not what she is running away from. If you have to, practice a positive reaction in front of the mirror over and over until you get it down. Do you use the mirror rehearsal technique before going to a military board for awards and promotions? I always did … got what I was going up for every time. I it’s a tried and proven technique.<BR>As for your telling her that she cannot see the children on Thursday. Do you have a written visitation agreement? Does it say that she get the kids on Thursday? If it does, then you cannot keep them from her. She could show up with the police and/or a court order to get them. This is not a good Plan A. Your children need their mother too. They need both of you. Whether or not you and she get back together, you are going to have to co-parent them until they are 18. This is as good a time as any to start learning to do this. Check with your attorney… I believe that child support payments have nothing to do with whether nor not a parent sees a child. The time with the child is not purchased with child support. So as long as your W is not a drug user, alcoholic or abusive to the children, you really do have to let her have them when it is her visitation time.<BR>You said that it’s time her vacation be ended. Does that mean that you want to give the kids to her so she can see how hard it is to raise them by her self? Do not use your children as pawns in this. In the end it will only hurt them. One day you and your W will moved beyond today’s pain. Your children will not because you and their mother are their life’s foundation.<BR>RE: Now she has called about ten times in the last twenty minutes. I answer the phone and when I hear her voice I hang up. Am I being childish or what? <BR>Yes and no. You are not being childish in that you do not need to be talking to her on the phone or in person until you get yourself under control. And yes you are being childish because you keep answering and hanging up. Do you have caller ID? If not get it that way you don’t even have to pick it up. You need to find a way to set boundaries with her. She cannot waltz into your life whenever she wants to. She has lost that privilege right now. But be careful on how you set the boundaries do not do it in a blast of anger and hurt. It will only drive her further ways. <BR>Remember that Plan B is about setting boundaries so that you can get on with your life, yet maintaining whatever love you have for her incase she returns. <BR>You can set the boundaries about the use of the van, financial issues, child support and visitation with the kids with as little love busting as possible. <P><BR>Here is what I suggest… (just my humble opinion). You are in too much pain right now to discuss things with her. Even her voice throws you over the edge. But you do need to communicate with her. I suggest that you email her …<P>___________<BR>Dear W,<BR>I apologize for my reaction to hearing your voice on the phone tonight. Please understand that I am having a very hard time adjusting to your chosen path in life. At this time I cannot talk to you on the phone or in person because it is too painful and I react in ways that I do not want to. You have chosen your path and you expect me to respect that. So please return me the favor by respecting the space I need to get over loving you and to move on with my life. <BR>At this point in time please communicate with me via email instead on in person and on the phone. This will give me the space I need so desperately. <BR>As for your visitation with the children this Thursday, I know that they need their mother so please pick them up as we had previously agreed.<BR>The child support issue is separate from the visitation. If you do not make your payment as agreed upon by ____ date, I will have my attorney discuss it with our attorney.<BR>_________________<P>Just my 2 cents<P>Z

Z,<P> I know what you are thinking. No, I have never and would never strike her. I am sorry that STL in under the weather. Tell him that I said hello. I am interested what he thinks about all of this.<P>Indy

Z,<P> She doesn't have email. There is also no set time that she can see the kids. It is usually just set up with a message on the answering machine. I like the letter that you typed. The problem is that she calls me a work and I have told her not to call me there anymore. Then she keeps calling. I just answer the phone and hang it up. I know that I am not handleing it well. Since she does not have email how can I get the letter to her?<P>Indy

Z,<P> I will read your answer to my last question tomorrow. I am tired and I am going to try and sleep. Besides STL needs you.<P>Indy

Indy,<P>If she does not have email, then send it to her in snail mail. And from what you just said, there are a few things you can add to it. <P>Change the letter to say that you will communicate about the children through voice messages and snail mail.<P>Please honor my repeated request that you not call me at work except for dire emergencies related to the children. These phone calls are upsetting and interfere with my work. I am sorry but if you call about any topic other then a dire emergency I will end the call immediately. (Then when she calls just say “I’m sorry but this the not the time and place to discuss this. Please either leave me a message at hope or write me. Bye”, then hang up.)<P>I would like to set consistent visitation schedule for you with the children. Children do best when they have a stable predictable schedule. This will also give me some very needed personal time on a regular basis so that I can schedule my life. Our attorneys can work out a reasonable time-sharing plan. <P>You know, you do not seem to be handling it very well right now. But who would? This is not something one handles easily. So don’t beat up on yourself so much. Do more to take care of you. <P>You know, there is an advantage to co-parenting. By that I mean letting her have the kids on a regular basis. Say 30% of the time. It gives you a very much-needed break. You are going through what so many single mothers go through. It seems that today equality between the sexes means that there are more and more dads left with their kids when the mom runs off with an OM. It’s a sad use of the hard won rights women have been fighting for world wide. There are many men like you out there. And you are all going through the same things women go through under the same circumstances. It’s tough. Believe me I know. I went through it myself and so did STL. <P>Indy, what are you doing for YOU? Let’s focus on you for a bit.<P>Z

Z,<P> Here is the letter that I am going try and fax to her tonight at work. What do you think of it. Also, how should I sign it?<P>Indy<P>Dear XXXXXX,<P>I apologize for my reaction to hearing your voice on the phone for the last couple of weeks. Please understand that I am having a very hard time adjusting to your chosen path in life. At this time I cannot talk to you on the phone or in person because it is too painful and I react in ways that I do not want to. You have chosen your path and you expect me to respect that. So please return me the favor by respecting the space I need to get over loving you and to move on with my life. <P>At this point in time please communicate with me via mail or leave a message at my parent&#8217;s house instead of in person and on the phone. Please honor my repeated request that you not call me at work except for dire emergencies related to the children. These phone calls are upsetting and interfere with my work. I am sorry but if you call about any topic other then a dire emergency I will end the call immediately. This will give me the space I need so desperately. <P>As for your visitation with the children this Thursday, I know that they need their mother so please pick them up as we had previously agreed. The child support issue is separate from the visitation. If you do not make your payment as agreed upon by 26 October 2001, I will have my attorney handle it. <BR>I would like to set consistent visitation schedule for you with the children. Children do best when they have a stable predictable schedule. This will also give me some very needed personal time on a regular basis so that I can schedule my life

Indy,<P>The letter looks good. It's very calm and clearly stated. <P>This seems almost like a mini Plan B letter so you need to be very kind and loving while setting our boundaries. You may want to add something to let her know that the door is open if she ever changes her mind...<BR>as for signing it......<BR>____________<BR>W, while I am attempting to move on with my life at this time, know that my greatest wish is that some day you will have a change of heart, want to get back together and recover our marriage. The door is still open.<P>Your Loving Husband, Indy<P>__________<P>Hope this helps.<P>Z

Z,<P> Here is the final draft. What do you think? I am thinking about faxing it to her at work. <P>Indy<P>Dear XXXXXXX,<P>I apologize for my reaction to hearing your voice on the phone for the last couple of weeks. Please understand that I am having a very hard time adjusting to your chosen path in life. At this time I cannot talk to you on the phone or in person because it is too painful and I react in ways that I do not want to. You have chosen your path and you expect me to respect that. So please return me the favor by respecting the space I need to get over loving you and to move on with my life. XXXXXXX, while I am attempting to move on with my life at this time, know that my greatest wish is that some day you will have a change of heart, want to get back together and recover our marriage. The door is still open.<P>At this point in time please communicate with me via mail or leave a message at my parent&#8217;s house instead of in person and on the phone. Please honor my repeated request that you not call me at work except for dire emergencies related to the children. These phone calls are upsetting and interfere with my work. I am sorry but if you call about any topic other then a dire emergency I will end the call immediately. This will give me the space I need so desperately. <P>As for your visitation with the children this Thursday, I know that they need their mother so please pick them up as we had previously agreed. The child support issue is separate from the visitation. If you do not make your payment as agreed upon by 26 October 2001, I will have my attorney handle it. <BR>I would like to set consistent visitation schedule for you with the children. Children do best when they have a stable predictable schedule. This will also give me some very needed personal time on a regular basis so that I can schedule my life. <BR> Your Loving Husband<BR> <BR> XXXXXXXX

Bump

Indy,<p>The letter looks good. I think it's ready to send.<p>Keep me posted on how it goes when you fax it to her.<p>I would think that your next step is to negotiate a time sharing schedule with your kids. Do you have one in mind? I could share with you the one my X-h and I have for our son. Or your lawyer may know what is customary in your state.<p>You have a very good day Indy. Take care of yourself.<p>Z

Z,<p> I forgot to add. I am wondering if I should even put the line in there about the door being open. She has what she wants. Should I remove it or not??<p>Indy

Hey Indy,<p>did you fax it to her work yet? Wonder if that is a good idea? I mean her work fax, is it accessible to others? <p>JMHO,<p>L.

Orchid,<p> No, I didn't fax it to her last night. SHe showed up at my daugther's daycare to take her. I faxed the letter over there. She got it. She is on her way over here to pick my son up from my office.<p>Indy

Z and Orchid,<p> She was just here to pick up my son. She looked so beautiful. She is growing her hair out again. I sent the letter by fax to the day care. I asked her if she got it and she said yes. I told her if she has any questions or would like to talk about it she can when she drops off the kids tonight. She said ok. I just think that she won't ever come around to me. I think that she is happier without me. I still think the kids would be too. If I am in plan B and gave her this letter do you think that I should even talk to her? Or should I let her wonder? I think that the letter was pretty clear.
Opinions please.<p>Indy

Bump<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,<p>I think that the letter is pretty clear... you cannot handle talking to her right now. So stick by that. If you talk to her now, then the letter means nothing. <p>If she has any questions she can write you about them and you can respond that way. <p>As for if she will ever come back to you, that is to be seen. Just behave as though you are in Plan A when you do have to see her, like at kids pick up time. And if she wants to talk, tell her very nicely that the only thing you will discuss with her in person is rebuilding your marriage.<p>I hope you did leave the bit about the door being open in the letter. It's very important to let her know that. She may want to take advantage of that open door some day.<p>And you darn well that I will not agree that the kids would be happier with her. They need both of you. And in many ways you are more important to them right now because you are the more stable parent... the one who is not out messing around. They need that stability from you.<p>
Remember that Plan A and Plan B are really for you. And if your wife comes back she can benefit too.So Indy, what are you doing to take care of yourself?

Hi Indy,<p>Gotta run but sending a supporting hug to you and your family. I ditto Z's comments. <p>Will post more later. Stick to your position.... <p>Take Care,
L.