Z,<p> With everything that she has said I don't think that she even likes me anymore. She told me that some girl will come and sweep me off my feet. I told her that she already has and that woman was her. After talking to a friend that see her when they go over to her parents' house says that they are always laughing and having a good time. I think that she feels that I am a waste of time. It will be hard not to talk to her when she comes to drop the kids off.<p>Indy

Indy,<p>Don't talk to her when she drops the kids off. Just say no more then "hi", get the kids and go into the house with them.<p>If she enters the house with the kids tell her that you can take it from there. And that she can leave now as you are busy.<p>If she wants to talk, tell her to write you a letter.<p>Stick to it.<p>Z

Z,<p> It will be so hard not to want to talk to her and find out what she thinks about the letter I wrote. She took a long time to get to my office today. She couldn't even walk in. I don't know if it was because she felt out of place or what. I just really miss her and my step daughter. I want things to work out so badly, but I think that she feels that I am a bad man. That is what I feel like. How is STL doing? I would like his perspective on this matter.<p>Indy

Z,<p> I am leaving to go home and get the kids. I will post again later.<p>Indy

Z,<p> Well, it is official. She said that I was a bas**d, and that she hated me. My daughter got her hand smashed in the van door. It is funny that they never get hurt when they are with me. I grabed my daughter and proceeded to walk up stairs. She said that she was going to call later to see how she is doing. I said OK thank you. That is when she told me that she hated me. Well, now my life is totaly over. She did pay some support. That suprised me. I will deposit it tomorrow. It most likely will bounce. There is no reason to go further. I am going to give her the kids. I can't live without her and the kids. Tell everyone that I am sorry that I let them down.<p>Indy<p>i just wish that this would not have happened. I will go to were it all started and end it there.<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,<p>Why do you think that she called you that name? I suppose it was a reaction to your letter. Guess she does no want you to set boundaries. That is a very typical reaction. <p>After I separated from my ex-h I could not talk to him either as he was so nasty to me and I would loose it every time. So I did not same thing via email. He was not a happy camper about it. Called me a few names too. But my life got a lot easier. Co-parenting our son got a lot easier. <p>Please don't take her name calling to heart. She is not herself these days. It was said out of her frustrations, not because of who you are.<p>One thing I want to know is what do you mean that you are going to go where it all started and end it? Please explain this statement.<p>I'm still at work. Will check in when I get home.<p>Z

Z,<p> I was talking about the D, the kids, and me leaving so that she doesn't even have to see me anymore. She called last night and asked if our daughter was ok and I said that she was. She said that she would like to see the kids on Tuesday. I said fine and we got disconnected. I called her back a few minutes later and the OM answered the phone. I asked for her and told her that I was sorry that I didn't answer her question earlier and that she didn't have to worry about me anymore that I was going to finish this. She will never want to be with me again. I am not a good person to be with. I am a bad father and husband. She has found someone that makes her happy. I just wish that it could have been me.<p>Indy

Indy,
You are killing me here. You're making me wanna cuss, and I don't do that!! (much) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Why is your whole self-worth wrapped around the opinion of this "woman"??? Give me a break! You're not a good father???? cmon.... you provided for this family for years. You loved your W and kids. You said yourself that the kids don't get hurt when they are with you. You were the best Indy you knew how to be. And here you are at MB, trying to learn about yourself and do what you can to hold a precious family together. THAT makes you a VERY good MAN, and good father and husband. We all made and continue to make mistakes. None of us were/are perfect spouses. That DOESN'T give a reason for our WS's to have an affair and run out on a family. They weren't perfect either and we didn't run out on them. Here we are trying to make something different. "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got." OK, so here we are at MB, trying to change the pattern of ourselves and our behavior. If WS (or the non-MB'er spouse) doesn't get it, then it's THEIR LOSS.<p>Are you gong to believe ONE person? Or believe all the good people here on this forum???? We are ALL telling you that you are a good person, and that your W if making some very bad decisions. <p>Let her go Indy. Yes. THat part is right. But don't let YOURSELF go. Don't LET HER steal your heart, soul and being.

Faith,<p> She stole my heart the day that I first saw her. Myself, I know now how much of a nothing that I truely am. I could never imagine another person with me in any way. I do know that everything that she has ever said to me was a lie. Just like my life was a lie. As far as believing her opinon of me or yours. She knows me better than anyone on this planet. You all have only known me for a short time. If anyone can tell me what kind of a person that I am I guess it would be her.<p>Indy

Indy,<p>I second what Faith said. You have so much going for you. That your wife cannot see that right now is her loss. You are still the corner stone of your family.. right now your family is your children and you. <p>Do you see what happened? You wrote her a letter telling her that you could not talk to you. Then she turned right around and said she wanted to talk to you. She is disrespecting your wishes. And you are such a sweetheart that you are having trouble telling her no. Stand by the letter. Don't talk to her in person if it causes you this much distress. That is what Plan B is about. It is not mean. It is not about punishing the WS. It is about giving you, the BS, the space you need so that you can heal and move on in life. It's about preserving whatever love you do have left for your wife so that if she has a change of heart you will be there for her. <p>As hard as it is. Take this time to take care of yourself and your children. Find a parent's without partners' organization to meet. I have a friend who is doing this. They do fun things with the kids. Take them to parks, biking, picnics. And about once a month they have adults parties. They help each other with child care swapping, support, etc. My friend has been attending the meetings for about 3 years. He is now engaged to one of the mom's who is a member. There should be a chapter in every town.<p>Indy, I keep asking you what you are doing for you. But you do not respond. Are you doing anything for Indy? Sounds like the answer is no. So no wonder you are so burned out. You are only human. Do you have anything fun planned for this weekend? With or without the kids?<p>Z

Z,<p> No, I don't have anything planed for the weekend. I hate the weekends now. That was always my time for my family. I hate going to my parents' house at night. I hate it because I am not in my house with my family. That will never change. She isn't missing anything with me except responsibilty and misery. I made her miserable. Like I have said before she wants me completly gone. She doesn't miss me or being a family with me. <p>Indy

Indy,
I know we can't convince you of anything. Your mind is made up. but just consider this.... you said something that caught my attention.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I do know that everything that she has ever said to me was a lie. Just like my life was a lie. As far as believing her opinon of me or yours. She knows me better than anyone on this planet. You all have only known me for a short time. If anyone can tell me what kind of a person that I am I guess it would be her.
<hr></blockquote><p>Read that. Does it make sense?? If you know that everything she has ever said was a lie, why would you believe her NOW? How can you listen and believe what she says about you, if you know she has lied to you before?? I just don't think she's someone you should be basing your opinion of yourself. She is only thinking of herself right now, and would have no reason to say anything good about you. She says horrible things about you to justify her self.

Z,<p> Are you out there?<p>Indy

Indy,<p>Yes I'm out here. Just trying to think of what to say to you kiddo. You are so down ... on yourself, on life.<p>You need to just do something. You need to focus on you and your kids. I assume you have them this weekend. Why don't you plan an outting, like maybe a movie with the kids. <p>What are some of the fun things to do in your area?<p>Z

Z,<p> Everytime that I plan something My whole family usually goes. When ever I do something with the kids I look around for my WS and my stepdaughter. It really hurts evertime we try to do something special.<p>Indy

Indy,<p>I understand that it is hard to do things without your wife and step daughter.<p>I want to share a story with you. My mom has 8 children. I am the third. As each of us graduated from high school and go our separate ways it's been almost impossible for all of us to get together on a holiday. Of course the group around on any one holiday has grown because of the number of spouses, children, step-children, nieces, nephews, grand kids, and great grand kids grew. But each year, my mother used to spend most of the holiday lamenting the ones who were not there, instead of celebrating the ones who were. It absolutely ruined her holidays. With 8 children who live all over the country it's hard to get them all together on any day. Then one year there were only two of us here with my mom for xmas. No extended family, nothing. Just my mom, my brother B, and myself. It was the year my mom learned to celebrate who was here instead of who was not. You see, my brother B has a terminal illness. He was so sick that xmas that he could not walk across his bedroom. So we spent that holiday with B. Just the three of us. We were sure it was his last and could not get enough of him. Since then, my mom has a very different outlook on things. There was one xmas when it was just her and me. Well we dressed up to kill.. I did her nails, hair, etc. And we went out to the fanciest restaurant in town and let them wine and dine us. It was one of the most memorable holidays I ever had. Just me and mom. Learned all sorts of things about her that day. <p>(By the way... my brother did not die. He's been around beating the odds for years. His will to fight the illness is a story of it's own.)<p>I know you miss your wife Indy. But take a long look at your children. They are who you have right now. And you are who they have. What you are telling them with the way you feel is that they mean very little to you. That you only care for their mother. This type of thinking makes kids feel like throw aways. Is that really what you want and mean? When you go out with them give them undivided attention. Look at what you do have. Don't look for what you do not have. That is what life is about. Life is what happens while we make plans for the future. Life is the little things like your kids smiles and them holding your hand. That's it really is.<p>I am just trying to change your focus from lamenting about your wife to something more positive. Remember that Plan A and Plan B are about you becoming a better person and taking care of your self and your children. Focus on that.<p>I fear that if there is ever a chance that your wife were to come back it will be lost because of the outlook you have. Remember that in Plan A you are supposed to show her the best you. Not the depressed you. And it is not supposed to be an act. It is about learning to have more control over your own feelings and your own life. You can do this and yet be kind and loving. I wonder if your depression is driving her away. <p>And Indy, please do not tell me you are not depressed. It is so obvious from what you write here. Yet you seem to refuse to do the things you need to do to get yourself feeling good again. I know what depression looks like and feels like. I can tell you that any time in my life when I have said anything like what you have said here about being worthless, it has come from the deepest depression.<p>Let me ask you something? And I'm asking this from the fondness that I have for you... not to be mean. So please take it that way. Would you want to be around you right now? If you could take off for a while and leave the depressed Indy to deal with his issues would you? You bet you would. If you want to win your wife back, you will not be able to do it in your current mood.<p>In this and in my last few posts I've been tryin to get you to start looking at what you can do to pull out of this funk you are in. I feel so bad for you as you seem stuck.<p>What is Indy going to do to make Indy feel better? to make Indy happier? You can only control your own actions.<p>Z

Z,<p> I took the kids out to breakfast today. We are at my office right now. We will be going over to my sister's house to carve pumkins with her and the rest of the family. I don't think that my attitude is driving her away. I think that she is in love with the OM and wants a life with him. Do I think that she wants the kids included in that life? That one I don't know. Everytime we talked about it she blamed me. That it was my fault that I have the kids, and that there not with her. She said that this is the only way that I would help her raise the kids. This is because I was paying all of the bills for the family and she still expected me to pay her support. I couldn't and I wouldn't. I told her that she wanted a new life then she needs to pay for it. I would buy clothes for the kids when I could and would help keep the van up and running. That was it. I was not going to pay for their house that they wanted. But, that was at the start of this. I think that now they are happy because they can go to work, sleep as late as they want to, and drink when ever they want to. In the meanwhile I have all of the responsibilties of the family without the benifits of such. She is happy now and I would rather her be happy than be with me and be misrable. I just wonder what was so misreable with me and the kids as a family? That one I will mostlikley never know. Unless she tells me, but I think that I mean nothing to her. I thought that I knew her and the she would never do this to us, but I guess I was wrong.<p>Indy<p>[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

sorry double post<p>indy<p>[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Z,<p> I hope that STL is feeling better today. I also hope that things with teh kids are starting to smooth out alittle bit. Thanks to you and everyone that has listened and help me for the past five months. It has been a really rough ride. My WS will have the kids again on Tuesday. I am not sure how that is going to go. I have thought about my WS ever wanting to come back. She won't. She has said from the begining that she would come back to me no matter how hard it gets. She also said that if I was the last man on earth that she wouldn't come back to me. So, I know pretty much were I stand in the whole thing. With my depression I have pushed everyone that I know away. I didn't think that it would happen here as well. I am sorry that I drove everyone to their breaking point with me. You all tried to help me and the kids. Thanks to you all.<p>Indy<p>[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

INDY_357,<p>I am glad you feeling a bit better. However do not get suck up on her fog. It will drive you nuts and down. Thats why avoid contact at all cost for now. Gather your strength and get some activity ... volunteering work such as Habitat for Humanity did a great moral booster for me. Indy, you have to concentrate on yourself, do not worry about what is in the past. Rebuild "new Indy" should be your goal. Give it your best and show your best.<p>If I have to listen to my WW, I will be in D !!!. I did this twice in the past year. I know how painfull it is.