Great question Lexxxy. Well I can say that I definitely do not like change. I do however accept it and try my best to move on. For example I worked for a small company for 8 yrs. we were a family, One day the owner took us out to dinner to tell us they he was selling the company and by the time dessert arrived we were meeting the new owners. The first year was the worst trying to adjust to working for this major corporation who bought out this little co. I stuck with it for 2 yrs. and grew and really learned alot. I guess the only thing we really have to fear is fear itself. I love my H and want my M to work but I also know that I do not want to be his wife if he cannot truly commit himself to me. I do not want to be M b/c it's convenient or comfortable. I think we are all a bit apprehensive to change in one way or another but this is a little different when we commited ourselves to our spouses it was for better or worse not for better or until I fall out of love, have an A, or just decide I don't want to be married any longer. Does that make any sense?

There are many kinds of change that I'm not afraid of, and in most cases they are exciting. New jobs (4 total in 20 years), new projects, new house via an owner-builder program, moving away to college and for summer coop jobs, major purchases, a whole bunch of things. I talked my wife into having a 3rd child who turned out to be the girl she always wanted, after 2 boys. I don't need to be around people all the time.<P>When I was single, I was never "afraid" of changing a relationship. However a marriage is different. A lot of the information on divorce says that people don't do any better the second time around. My wife says it's easy to find someone else, that I can too, but the people she finds (in bars) all have problems and the relationships don't last. I do not think a divorce will improve my life. <P>Also there are 3 innocent kids involved, relying on the both of us, with no ability to control the process. I am resisting a change in the marriage, but I don't think fear is the right word. It comes from a rational risk assessment and a sense of responsibility.<P>I do subscribe to the Harley concept that love is at least partially conditional, that it is largely a choice, and that it can be built if both parties are willing and work at it. This is key. If I subscribed to the other view, that matches are made in heaven, that the feelings of love are either there or not, then I wouldn't stay.<P>Like Lexxxy and SnL, my wife also says "you don't love me, you just like the idea of marriage". But I think that by asking the question in these circumstances, you are just setting up a "test" that the BS can fail and thus justify your own viewpoint. Love has to be shown and the WS must be receptive for that to occur. I've been plan A for so long without a positive response, that it would take a sustained period of encouragement by my wife, before I could be more confident and convincing. By sustained, I mean a couple days to get started, not just an hour or two.<P>It's pretty clear that's not happening with Lexxxy or SnL, either. It sounds like Lexxxy's H has committed more LB than I have, but still, my wife has been avoiding my hugs for a couple months. She won't participate in counseling or indicate she wants to work on the marriage. Won't acknowledge anything positive that I do. All that creates negative feelings that I can't just overcome at the drop of a pin and say "I love you".<P>In the new book "Divorce Remedy" by Michele Wiener-Davis, she says don't keep saying "I love you" when the spouse can't say it back. It makes you feel bad, and the spouse feels guilty or at least uncomfortable. That makes sense to me. Steve Harley says to focus on incremental, credible, and sustainable changes in plan A. That makes sense, too, and that's what I'm trying to do. But this is only building the foundation for a day when me and my wife can tell each other "I love you", and have each other believe it.<P>I'll change my marital status if I have to, but not before exhausting every option. It won't necessarily make things better to divorce, but I do feel that I've learned a lot through this process and things could be different the next time. I've made a lot of progress on some of my other problems, independent of the marriage.<P>My wife, on the other hand, hasn't learned a thing. She's handling her OM relationships the same way she did in college, and those were all about 1 year. I pointed that out shortly after D-day, before I found the MB materials and learned about disrespectful judgements. So now, I only say things like that here. But it comes into the picture because I sincerely do not believe my wife will find happiness after we divorce, and I am supposed to look after her.<P>Well, at least I touched on your original question in a couple of places...<P>- Tom

It just occurred to me that if Lexxxy's H is running his own business, he can't be totally afraid of change.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tmmx:<BR><STRONG><BR>Like Lexxxy and SnL, my wife also says "you don't love me, you just like the idea of marriage". But I think that by asking the question in these circumstances, you are just setting up a "test" that the BS can fail and thus justify your own viewpoint. Love has to be shown and the WS must be receptive for that to occur. I've been plan A for so long without a positive response, that it would take a sustained period of encouragement by my wife, before I could be more confident and convincing. By sustained, I mean a couple days to get started, not just an hour or two.<P>- Tom</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You opened my eyes Tom -- you are very right that I had not been very receptive to my H. I wouldn't allow H to show love to me. I wanted nothing to do with it. I resisted every thing he tried. I had a lot of buried anger that surfaced when he tried to make changes. <P>Steve Harley was absolutely wonderful to talk to on that subject. He understood so well what I thought and felt. Its was as if I had already given up on H. I had tried for so long to change him. I resented him when he finally did. It was too late. When I finally felt no love for him -- THEN he's willing to change. That still makes me angry. Why wasn't I worth it back when it could've mattered?

Lexxxy,<P>Maybe it was/is because he is now certain that you are not trying to manipulate him into behaviors, so he is now certain that he must change. Actually, he won't change really only the way he presents himself to you will change.<P>I think you fears are somewhat unfounded because I suspect if he has stuck with you, he did/does love you. He was fighting with you over who had control.<P>You might want to revisit and rethink about things. It may just be that your actions in the past no matter how well meaning where interpretted by him as control. This happens when communications are poor.<P>Just something to think about.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Lex,<P>I'm going to jump in here but I hope Tom responds. His comments could have come from me if I could communicate that well. Good post Tom.<BR>You asked why you weren't worth it when it could have mattered. I can't speak for your H but for me I just didn't know what I had until it was gone. I'm not talking about someone to cook and clean, raise the kids, etc. (although I basically did all of this for a year while W was in A - that did make me appreciate how much W did). It is the loss of your partner. No matter how bad things were I always believed that there was a trust between us. When W took that trust and gave it to somebody else I lost a part of who I was. There was a real loss to my identity. It didn't really matter that our marriage was already on the roaps.<BR>Lex, I can tell you that I was even preparing for D a few months earlier. Nothing could have prepared me for the moment that I looked into my W's eyes and knew she was gone. I regret that I didn't try harder before but there is nothing I can do except change my behaviors now. She can decide if she thinks it's real or not (and she tells me that she knows I love her) but I can't go back and undo the past. It comes down to trust for you. Do you believe it's real or not?<P><BR>who

Hi Lex, You have received some excellent posts here. In the beginning, I used to wonder if I did fear change as opposed to fearing the loss of love. However, I realized that change, in today's society, has become a part of daily life. Technology, companies, employees, homes, fads, etc all change rapidly. However, the one person I thought I would fact the world with was, in my mind, a constant. My love for my H and his for mine was always ASSUMED. I can honestly say I never questioned the possibility of an existence without him. Yes, I may have taken his love for granted but never considered the possibility that he would fall out of love.<P>Therefore, I can truly and honestly post here, that my fear is the loss of his presence in my life, the loss of our dreams, the loss of his conversation, the loss of his wit, the loss of his caring and the loss of his devotion to me. All of this was there for so long that I just can't give up so easily. <P>In response to your question as to why, does your H do things when in your mind, it's too late? My H says that to me so often...I can only respond that proving my love to you has become priority. I never really knew that certain things were important (he didn't communicate his dissatifaction) and now that I know, I realize I need to change. <P>Bottom line, it's all about communication, don't you think?

Hi Lex, You have received some excellent posts here. In the beginning, I used to wonder if I did fear change as opposed to fearing the loss of love. However, I realized that change, in today's society, has become a part of daily life. Technology, companies, employees, homes, fads, etc all change rapidly. However, the one person I thought I would fact the world with was, in my mind, a constant. My love for my H and his for mine was always ASSUMED. I can honestly say I never questioned the possibility of an existence without him. Yes, I may have taken his love for granted but never considered the possibility that he would fall out of love.<P>Therefore, I can truly and honestly post here, that my fear is the loss of his presence in my life, the loss of our dreams, the loss of his conversation, the loss of his wit, the loss of his caring and the loss of his devotion to me. All of this was there for so long that I just can't give up so easily. <P>In response to your question as to why, does your H do things when in your mind, it's too late? My H says that to me so often...I can only respond that proving my love to you has become priority. I never really knew that certain things were important (he didn't communicate his dissatifaction) and now that I know, I realize I need to change. <P>Bottom line, it's all about communication, don't you think?