Hello my friends...<p>Yes, I know its been a while since I was last here. I keep up on most of you via friends via telephone. <p>Today I come here to vent a little, seek your most humbling advice and for your prayers hugs and support.<p>At times I feel the end of my unflawless (but better than the first few attempts) plan A is coming to an end. My bank is not being emptied anymore..., but just not being filled to sustained continuance. My timeline draws nearer and nearer the end. Sadly, for her and the boys.<p>I want to thank each and everyone of you who have helped and supported me over the last 3 years to get me to the point that I now am. I would have been long divorced by now and be just now getting over the divorce had I not come here. I speak of that to say, that I have become a better person, aware of my feelings, sensitive to those around me and a better father.<p>Through all that has happened, I have learned that I can change my behaviors, but I cannot change those of my wife. She has to do that on her own. There is no influence I can provide her to help her see her way out of the fog, the abuse and the control. I am very saddened by the state she is in. Even though she can truely see it at times. Its fleeting revealance is gone moments later. I feel for her everyday, that she wake up, not for me, but for the 5 boys and herself. <p>I have gained a lifetime of experience to succeed, and make something of myself on my own. Which I wiill be doing soon. I feel for her, that she chooses to not be a part of that when the time comes. She wants me to do something with my life... which I have already done... but she cannot see. She will though... one day, and maybe for her sake... and her happiness, not mine... she will want to be a part of something that has a dignified meaning in life, and that is me. She can find it on her own...without my direction...but the shores of my life are becoming rocky and unnavigateable. Her ship that still tosses in the sea of this affair comes nearer and nearer my banks from time to time...but the lighthouse is growing dimmer and the lifelines are slowly being pulled back in. <p>Please understand that I have fought the fight...faced the battle in its bloodiest hour and I have died inside for this to work. At a time of being nearly homeless and unemployed..., I am happier today than I was three years ago. As a man who worked his [censored] off and tried to give her and 4 boys (back then) the best of himself by providing security and stability, wasn't enough, when being the perfect father wasn't on my plate, in her eyes, now she wants me to be everything that I already was. I have changed. No longer is being the best provider I could be at the top of my list... but rather being a great father and dad to any of the 5 boys who want it, is. Although years ago, we rented a house we wanted to own, we drove a second hand car that would get us back and forth to our destinations, and lived just barely beyond paycheck to paycheck, I'm told now, that that wasn't enough. I was suppose to be both.<p>The cycle of the affair is drawing to an end. 6 months to year and it will be over. The OM will forget about the baby and move on to his next unknowing victim and forget about the baby as he has his own children. My wife will most likely be alone then wondering where I went and why I am not there for her. I wish (and maybe I could) hold out that much longer, but I don't think that I can. We have lost the last three years of our lives, and that of my wife, our children and I have been changed forever.<p>I soon will be able to look in the mirror and say to myself that I have done everything that I could have to save my love for my wife, so that when the time came she and I together could try and save our marriage. I will be able to look into our sons eyes 20 years from now and they will know that I tried. They will know that although I helped in ways for the marriage to fall apart, that I was the one who tried, waited and endured till the very end. I have not been the dead kickless horse, I have fought for our marriage ever step of the way. I did not give up and I will eventually be at peace.<p>I am not throwing in the towel or giving up on her. She still has time, but the tick tock rings quieter and quieter in the final hours on our clock. <p>I love her very much still today. But the person she has become, I do not know or like very much. I see her old self from time to time, and I stare at her, hoping she will reach out from the haze. It never comes. I long for the complete woman that was once full of love, happiness and life. The mother who was there at home for her children. I don't want to settle for half a spouse or friend. <p>It really is all or nothing? She wants to be neutral and friends to both I and the OM. The affair, I have know idea...but I know what I see... I think.

This had dropped to the 3rd page... just wanted to make sure you saw it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=013278

H2Y my friend,<p>it's so good to read you again and so good to hear from you. I'll read your post a few times and then come back. I'm just so sorry that your wife is still where she is - you've worked so hard and given so much.<p>I've missed you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>- Freddy

Thanks Faith and Freddy [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Speaking of safe harbours.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You both have been very wonderful to me. ((((((Friends)))))) and to mention everyone else ((((((Et al))))))<p>Doing really good, just a bummer of a day.<p>Learned early this morning (when I was "asking" for intimacy... :*( and was gracefully rejected)
that the OM and W were together several times after OM was released from custody back in the beginning of this year (Jan - Apr) when OM would come to H-town to visit the baby. Then I gave W an ultimatum and told her I wouldn't tolerate her seeing OM and the baby, unless I was there. Two weeks later was when she moved to D-town...supposedly to leave me... had nothing to do with OM she says... (she had a year to leave me while we were trying a halfass attempt at recovery and OM was in jail, but she choose only to leave once he got out, had a taste of the affair again and the ultimatum came).<p>The truth hurts even though that was 9 months ago. The lies and deceete, wondering exactly what I was doing during that time really brought me down today. Knowing that they were intimate though, proved healthy for me in knowing that she didn't leave me just because she was done with our relationship.<p>The guilt that I have been carrying around about the mistakes I made in June also was somewhat lifted, in knowing that she was in the PA part of the A again. I will never feel good about those decisions and things I did, before I hit rock bottom... but there is comfort in knowing there were reasons why I did.<p>I'm alone today... missing everyone... missing her, still.

H2Y,<p>you've been sooooo good with your Plan A, so good - but have you considered a 'no contact' scenario? I'm just thinking out loud but it might be time. Your Plan A has done what it was designed to do - maybe the shock of not having you there is what's needed now.<p>However, the OM sounds dangerous and your W sounds like she's having troubles getting herself out of his control. Then again, you can't be there forever - everyone has their own choice to make, your wife included.<p>Just thinking out loud, H2Y,<p>- Freddy

Bringing back an old friend.

2:00 [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

WOW... that is scary.. Been here a very long time... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>271 to 11782 with the name change years ago.. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] but hey [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I've changed alot since then.. but I guess not enough.<p>I been doing this **** way to long.

Aloha my friend,<p>Good to hear from you again. I see you are reaching the acceptance stage. It will be better for you and the boys. Your W may have to play catch up on her own. She will one day......<p>In the interim, as I have always said, do what is best for those you have control and input over. Indy is having a hard hard time. He may have already left us, I am not sure. I sure hope not. Your example is what he needs to see. <p>I have to go to lunch and run errands, then back to this 'ol computer to do work!! YUCK! Been in meetings all morning and didn't get much done. <p>Anyways, will chat laters.... ok? <p>Take Care,
L.

that's a cool trick [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I've not been here long enuff to do that [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyways, what can you do with an old dog like me anyways [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>- Freddy<p>PS: Was at the gym today - so now I can enjoy a beer for my pains [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]

H2Y....<p>Just a couple of thoughts here..<p>I can understand the pain of your loss...loss of family, loss of wife, loss of everything you hold dear to you. But walk with your head held high and remember that, although you have made mistakes (hey, that is what being human is about), you remained steadfast in your love and your actions were prompted by your love for her. You have nothing to be ashamed of, and the changes you have made, are for the better! You are stronger, wiser, and better for taking the high road. None of us is perfect, but there comes a time, when we reach a point of diminishing returns and you deserve much better than you are getting at this point. Your ability to be a great father, not just a provider, will pay great dividends down the road as your children mature and look for that love and guidance that you can provide, no matter if you are with W or not. Facing the undaunting task of building a foundation that you dreamed of, but having her build it on shifting sand, you have remained positive about who you are, what you are about, and where you are headed. Although the road seems dark and bleak right now, your light will see you through. No matter the pain, you are still an inspiration and positive force in many of our days! Keep the faith, and protect what love you have left for her that she may not fall into the shadows and wither away!<p>Our thoughts are with you. I don't have any great words of wisdom to pass along, but know you are thought of!<p>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<p>Trueheart

(((((((( H2Y ))))))))<p>You obviously need those today. They're there for you tomorrow too. And the next day, and the next... IF you need them. Will you? You won't know until those days come, right? <p>Plan A can be tough. And obviously gets that much more difficult with each day that passes and you don't get to have your own love bank deposited into. But you know that is one of the possible side effects to plan A.<p>You gave yourself a timeline. You want to plan A until xmastime/new year's. That is your goal. You can reach it. All you have to do is take it one day at a time. You've had some great days, you've had some downright lousy (to say the least) days too. And both are bound to re-occur. That darned roller coaster!! AUGH!! <p>What is it that's your problem now? Is it that you're tired of plan Aing, or is it that your timeline/deadline is coming to an end? I'm guessing it's more because time is running out (based on your plan), and you're not seeing enough of a return from your efforts yet. That being my assumption (uh-oh! the [censored]-u-me word [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ), keep in mind, that you can always change your timeline. Just keep on taking it one day at a time.<p>As usual.. keep a close watch on your heart and mind. Start making your self protection plan for plan B SHOULD you need it. If it's all there, ready and waiting, then maybe you won't have such a hard time with your plan A... b/c plan B is waiting in the wings, just in case.<p>Faith1 has given me some of the details of what's been happening with you (not too much though... I haven't seen her on icq lately... hint hint!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ). I'm sorry that you don't have regular access to a computer so that we can all help each other out more. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] But please remember that you're still in my thoughts (and on my icq list! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>I really don't know what else to say. I've re-read what I wrote and alot of it sounds like gibberish. I hope something may have triggered something in you that makes sense. (grin).<p>Take care,
Karen

H2Y,<p> SOOO good to hear from you brother. I have been keeping up with you as much as I could through our mutual "Angel". <p> I pray for your heart to heal, one way or the other. <p> Keep us all updated whenever possible.<p> jd

Just wanted to chime in and offer whatever inadequate words of encouragement I could offer. H2Y, you've been at this a lot longer than most of us. You've shown patience and mustered strength to make sacrifices that most weaker men couldn't manage. I'm at pretty much the same place you are, although I have been at this for nowhere near the amount of time that you have. But we're all on this A-train together. Determination, resolve, patience - those things you have. Just find new peace and turn your eyes towards the important things in life. <p>A new year and a new leaf will mean a new life for you. We'll still be here. I hope you will, too.

H2Y (aka E M P T Y), you are one hellava fighter! And a good one, too [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] You've taken your share of punches and are still on your feet, a bit "punchdrunk" perhaps, but on your feet, nevertheless. I admire your tenacity and courage. And, I thank you for sharing your story with me and others on the MB forum. Your method of Plan A has been a true success despite not winning the trophy. Instead, you received the ultimate award of inner-growth and beauty.<p>God Bless you and your boys!!!!!

Hi H2Y,
Gosh, I was sitting here having flashbacks to reading your posts about whether or not you should move/follow your wife. Now you are facing the holidays. Are you okay?<p>To me, you are not empty. You are so full of love, gosh, any sane woman would want that. I have said this to others because I try to remind myself of it regarding my own husband when I feel like LBing... There are probably about 10 women out there who would take you exactly the way you are (with ALL your faults) and be glad to get you! They're probably working on you as we speak!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>BE FRIENDS?! I don't think so! Only because you still have so much love and desire for her. It would only hurt you like setting yourself up for rejection and pain. Who needs that? Nah, I vote for all or nothing. You don't have a piece of your heart to give, you want to give it all so you want the same in return. The least we can expect in marriage is a 200% effort...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Husband2you:
<strong>I will never feel good about those decisions and things I did, before I hit rock bottom... but there is comfort in knowing there were reasons why I did.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>And, I would venture to say that if you had it to do all over again, you would have done it exactly the way you did it BECAUSE of those reasons, which BTW, were good reasons to you at the time. Don't regret what you cannot change. I would venture to say that even if you could have behaved differently, her mind was already made up as she was knee deep involved with a jailbird... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>God doesn't use our past in order to determine our future. And your future looks bright from where I stand. You have your health, you have your wonderful kids to teach how to be honorable men, you have done your best and that is the best you can do. You're just shifting to another gear is all and it will take some adjusting. Everybody deals with change and yours has been gradual! 3 years ain't quick and dirty! So maybe it is time to focus on you and being good to yourself.<p>Give yourself what she can't give you because you're worth it! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Hoping for a better today for you! {{{Hugs from California}}}

My eyes filled with tears and my heart with pain. I have known both for a very long time... As a matter of fact I was best friends with husband2you's wife. Now, husband2you is one of my very best friends in the world and I love him dearly. <p>I, too, held out and wished that wife would one day find her way back to who she once was. She was a very vibrant person that was full of love and life. I remember so well the life that husband2you described them as having. <p>I am divorced now, from the husband that I had during this time, and it was husband2you that made me realize the "abuse" I was receiving. <p>The sad reality is that "wife" has no idea of what she has done. A love like husband2you doesn't come alone everyday, and is fact, very hard to find. Had she walked into my shoes for even one day... Maybe she would know. We had money in our relationship. We had brand new trucks and a house we were buying. What we didn't have was a family unit or love. <p>I would have given it all up to have a love like theirs. She never complained back then, and seemed very happy and content. I am not sure what happened to her or why - but what I do know is that she did change. I miss her dearly, too. But one of the greatest things I have learned is that "letting go doesn't mean you don't care - it means you cannot control the actions of another". <p>For everytime, I was pushed away from my husband when I went to get a hug or kiss... for everytime he beat me black and blue, and for every hateful ugly word that he said to me, parts of my love died. Until one day - I was empty.<p>Today, I no longer walk on eggshells. I see him with another, and can only laugh that he is not my concern or my problem any longer. It does NOT make me sad in the least nor does is bother me. <p>I no longer live a life of fear. I know longer get hurt or abused. I don't miss him, I grew to hate who he had become and realized the man I married died a long time before. <p>Had wife ever lived my life - the appreciation for husband2you would be there. It isn't amount how much money you have or the materials things that you own - it is about a loving relationship having the saving qualities of mutual respect, trust, and commitment, one that moves us closer to living a life which on earth becomes all that it shall be "in Heaven." <p>Move on husband2you. You are far too wonderful to hang on. A lot of PEACE comes when you let go. The wound will finally heal when you Let it Go... And you will get YOUR life back. <p>I admire you for hanging on and loving her the way that you do. You are a very special person and I PROMISE - It does get better... <p>As for all of you wondering... I was their neighbor - but now live across the US. I have made a new life so very far away from home. I learned to love me after 10 years of abuse. My focus in life has completely changed and I put all faith in God and His Son, Christ Jesus. I attend Church regularly at Living Word Christian Center - http://www.lwcc.org - and I have a wonderful man in my life. He is a Christian First - and both of us focus our lives around God and we continually walk on the same path together. <p>I am learning their are two types of love. One is the physical kind that most of us know - and the second one is "real"... It is God love. The way God loves us / Christ loves the Church. This God Love is the way he and I love each other. It is so powerful and wonderful - I cannot imagine life without it.<p>This God Love is also the way husband2you loves his wife - it is such a shame that she doesn't realize what she is abusing and losing. <p>
[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi H2y sorry i dont know your story, but your post brought a tear to my eye.
I thought i had it bad with my 17 months, you must be one heck of a man to still love your w after 3 years.
If only she could see what she stands to lose.
I pray for a strong wind to blow that fog away.
Hugs to you and take care
Liz [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear pammyn,<p>What a lovely testamony on behalf of H2Y. You are a true friend to him. I wish him well, too. You know, sometimes we just cannot get the "old" personality back in our beloved spouses after the ravages of an affair. Too many things can change in spite of our best efforts. <p>There is much life yet to live. We can move on. We still have our friends. We still have our kids. We still have our family. H2Y is a sadder, wiser man for all this. Please convey my thoughts and prayers to him the next time you communicate with him.<p>H2Y, if you're here, I respect you and your efforts, and support you in your choices.<p>Take care,
Estes

Faith, Freddy, Orchid, Trueheart, Topie, JD, GMan, Louise, BTDT, Lizzle, Estes and Pammy, Et Al.<p>Hello,<p>I'm really to the point of making a decision regarding the OM. Call it vengence, call it justice, call it what you want. I am really thinking about filing a Restraining Order and enforcing the current Protective Order that is already in place. The OM was given permission by my W to get a DNA test done on our youngest son. After my 9yo's birthday this past weekend and seeing gifts from the OM to my son, pushed me to the limit of decency. And now with the threat of the DNA test impossing fatherhood either way regarding my baby, my children's youngest brother, I feel I must act.<p>Being that the OM now lives 2 houses down from my W and I and she and I aren't in recovery, and the A 'feels' like it is still present (how f*ing stupid I must be) that I sit here and tolerate the pain and emptiness that I feel from day to day.<p>W and I decided over a year ago that she and I would raise the baby as our own, while the OM was in jail. Regardless of paternity, I agreed to raise the child as my very own. When she left me last April that didn't change. My feelings for the baby haven't changed.<p>But I am not the babysitter when I helped her see that an abortion and and giving the baby up for adoption would be more destructive in our lives than the losses that I knew I would eventually face. The loss of the baby to a sink or to another couple was so much more on my mind than repairing and recovering my marriage back then. The life that she and I decided together to bring into this world and raise is about to possibly be stripped from me.<p>I may not have ever been there in the ways that she wanted me to be to her 2 older children. I may have even been the worst stepfather in the world to them, but I have never been a deadbeat father to them. I continue to love them, not as completely as she may like, but I love the 2 older boys, knowing at any point in time that they could be stripped from me, as they were when this affair began. I suppose I held back my complete love from them because I was always afraid of that. Maybe its just because I was incapable of loving children that weren't mine. Regardless, I have been here for them more than their father ever was and will be. <p>Now the decision is arising that the baby will not be mine anylonger is encrouching. A child that I helped bring into this world and raised while my W was in deep postpartum depression maybe out of my life soon. At least in the capacity that I wanted to be. The OM has two children, from two previous marriages, a boy and a girl that he never maintains contact with. He is a deadbeat father that has gone months at a time without paying childsupport, and this is the man that my W wants to raise the baby. A man that has spent a year in jail do to his instability to maintain control while with my W. His second strike in the state of Texas, that once the A is over and he eventually moves on to his next victim, will eventually find himself locked away for years. How will he be a fatherly example and there for the baby, if he is found to be the father.<p>I entered the agreement to raise the baby regardless of paternity and now I have little more choices of his well being than that of a baby sitter. The baby, now 16 months old, doesn't know who I am or what I may have sacrificed for his chance to be loved by my wife and I, our children as a complete family unit, but the latest decisions will surely affect the unity of 7 lives. Betrayal of that unit is coming, and I feel for all of the boys. <p>I guess what I need right now is acceptance in my decision to enforce the Protective Order and what results may come from actions. Will I be forced to move out of my 'wife's' house; while she file for divorce; will she leave me again for 'being controlling and taking action in her life, where I'm not welcome'?<p>What will the fruits of my actions be? A gentle Love Buster, or a marriage ending decision? Would I be better off to just move and take our boys and the baby with me? Looking at the situation, I don't want to be interpreted as controlling, or manipulative. <p>She wants me to make something of my life, but in a way, I'll be damned if I'm going to make something of my life on the condition that my status, has anything to do with the condition of the recovery of my marriage. I almost feel, 'take me as I am, or don't take me at all'. The truth to the matter, is that she won't even take the time to see what improvements I've made with myself, because she can't see past her taker, wanting finacial security and stability. Maybe I'm making excuses, maybe I'm being selfish.<p>She told me this morning that she would break the relationship of with OM if I promised not to leave her as a friend. What she doesn't know, is that I don't want to be her friend. I want to be her soulmate first, husband second, and friend last.<p>I have female friends, and they don't treat me the way she thinks our friendship should be, so why does she think that I will agree to a battered friendship with conditions and PAIN. I won't.<p>I know that all of you will have some great insight and some of you won't be able to fathom the depths of any of this... but that is okay, any amount of support or encouragement either way will be greatly appreciated, and as usual I am always open to critism.<p>I don't mean to be a taker right now..... but I am giver'd out.