Thanks JO & Orchid for your apperication. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>and here ya'll thought I was just this sweet old Southern Lady, <p>sorry redhat, for getting carried away with the confronting bit, my point was never snoop if you can't handel what you find and never confront when you are out of control<p>sometimes the longer you keep things from your WS the better off you are, but make sure you make copies, they may come in handy [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>btw, if for some reason you think you need to snoop, you are most likely right, every timeI went looking I found things and was always because I had a feeling. <p>hey it works on teenagers too.<p>[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: sing ]</p>

MelodyLane & All,<p>On point #6, stop snooping, I stoped "bug" my WW cars & stop looking when I know WW is with OM. Since I know their tricks & my WW do not want to stop A, she is addicted to OM. I feel I am wasting my time at this juncture.<p>I also believe once she is willing to work on M & stopped A, if ever, I will start snoop again on top of Radical Honesty to protect my self. She will have to earn my trust.

Well, I can tell you all that I wish my Daughter's MM's wife would do SOMETHING! We have done all we can and have had it ALL slap us in the face.<p>If anyone knows the wife of a Morman Bishop who is also an DR.(ask me what kind if you need to know), maybe you could tell her that his staff knows, that a voice activated recorder put in his office and suv would give her all she needs to know. Or maybe you are just Morman and can't stand the fact that this guy is getting away with this for two years!!!!!<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: gottruth? ]</p>

GotTruth?<p>You have friggin got to be kidding me ... A Mormon Bishop????????<p>Okay, okay ... have you tried the ... Send the SAA book with a letter of irrefutable details that no one should know but W and MM?<p>Anonymously of course ....<p>Jo

res....I listened in on my H's voice pages from OW for 8 mos (several every night) and my H nor OW never knew. Keeping it to myself was very hard for that long,<p>snl..I am impressed jo, that is an extraordinary achievement, are you sure you are still sane?

I have become the queen of all snoops!!! for 16 years, i NEVER questioned or doubted my H. He was the most honest, trustworthy person around. His main thing over the years was "there is no excuse for an affair" yet he had one. he still says there was no excuse for what he did. Snooping has let me find out *twice* since he's been home that he was talking to her. cell bills are my all time favorite. My problem is that I LB big time when I find something out. I have got to plan A better or I am going to ruin things for myself, by myself. I am learning that if I can't handle what I find(which I usually can't) then I have got to stop snooping! But it is so addictive!! hehe

Once again....I am not reading what others have replied....so my sentiments may have already been expressed...if so, just count it as reinforcement!<p>My point of view is that of a WS....I had a long-term EA....but am now quite contentedly back at "home".<p>Comment #.1. Snooping/sleuthing is a must to bring evidence of A since WS is in the fog and usually they lie and they never disclose A on their own.
A. I agree....actually, I wish my husband would have known what was happening in the beginning. I feel it wouldn't have gone very far had he/we realized how far apart we had grown. My EA was a SYMPTOM of the distance in my marriage. Yes, I lied and hid my EA.... and told partial truths for the first time in my life....but I was determined to keep "the only bright spot in my day."<p>Comment#.2. Snooping/sleuthing is a must to see how deep of a [censored] are you in, kind of accessing the damage.
A. Once again, I agree....not just for a diagnosis of the situation, but to be able to intervene in the beginning!<p>Comment#.3. Snooping/Sleuthing is a major LB that you could play down with the use fogese as a defense such as "I get better PI or method next time" or "If you tell me the truth nothing but the truth I don't have to do this" or "Why do you have A at the first place". You have been betrayed you have the right to know for your plan A.
A. My husband didn't take this tact....he listened and responded with the utmost understand....he enacted a truly incredible Plan A. I have said on this forum many times, but it bears repeating....in the depths of my EA, I was LOOKING for an excuse to flee. Had I been confronted with a statement like "I'll get a better PI next time", or "If you tell me the truth and nothing but the truth, I won't have to do this"....I would have used EITHER OF THOSE statements as my excuse to flee. In my opinion, a gentle approach is needed at this time [when the WS is confronted with the BS's knowledge of the EA/A].<p>Comment# 4. Snooping/sleuthing is not for "revenge", "demand" or any type of LB. Only for the 1 & 2 reasons above and not even will help bring your WS back at all.
A. You spouse will come back to the LOVE that they were once shown.....the only EFFECTIVE thing you can this point is show them why they came to you in the first place!<p>Comment# 5. Snooping/sleuthing is not for the emotinally weak since the "fact" will drain your LB$ like no tomorrow.
A. I realize it must be awful to see that your spouse could have betrayed you....For some, that may be too much to get past.<p>Comment# 6. Once you find out all you need to know about their A, you should stop it and put those extra energy to get busy on your plan A. Don't give OP/WS the satisfaction.
A. There is no "satisfaction" in being a WS spouse. In my case, my EA happened very casually and accidentally. Once I realized that I had more feelings for another man than I did for my husband, I didn't really want EITHER relationship.
Thank GOD I found Dr. Harley's book. His principles were so simple and easily enacted, that I quickly recognized the problem AND KNEW THE SOLUTION....[which is a first for the "self-help" books I have reviewed.]<p>One last comment....RedHat, I'm not sure whether you realized it or not, but the way you posed these comments, you made it appear that a Wandering Spouse goes OUT OF THEIR WAY to betray their spouse. IMO this is seldom the case. Most of us [WSs] are simply insecure.....I would say that almost all of us felt unloved in our relationships or else would NOT HAVE BEEN VULNERABLE to an A/EA in the first place.

<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: gottruth? ]</p>

A WS's opinion...<p>Let me add that I fully agree with MelodyLane's
observation that the snooping should not stop.<p>I went 10 months with absolutely NO CONTACT with my EA, then on 9/11 contacted him to express condolences. That started a month of frequent contact. Fortunately after a while, I realized that the memories I had of my EA were quite overblown and that he was not my "soul-mate" after all.<p>My husband had shown me how much he loved me and my feelings for him were unshakeable once again.<p>So IMHO, keep snooping by ALL MEANS....and don't give up on Plan A!

Boy is this NOT TRUE about my WDIL!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>from confused&insecure
One last comment....RedHat, I'm not sure whether you realized it or not, but the way you posed these comments, you made it appear that a Wandering Spouse goes OUT OF THEIR WAY to betray their spouse. IMO this is seldom the case. Most of us [WSs] are simply insecure.....I would say that almost all of us felt unloved in our relationships or else would NOT HAVE BEEN VULNERABLE to an A/EA in the first place.
<hr></blockquote><p>She planned the whole sordid affair, pun intended.
She called old BF after 8 years of no contact while on a trip back to hometown. She flew him in into town as soon as she got home and stayed in a B&B while asking my son to stay home and babysit while she caught up on "business." She flew out to OM's town on "business" and rented herself a condo; came back and secretly filed for divorce, said she needed space to find herself, tricked my S to get temporary custody of their son, and moved lock, stock, and barrel out of state to do what she told their friends and their priest she felt God was leading her to do. Sheeeeech! <p>My bewiltered, dazed son had NO CLUE as to the real reason she was doing this until he happened upon clues and began to snoop. Can you imagine how long it would have been before she told him what was really happenening 600 miles away as she was "finding herself" if he hadn't snooped?<p>If what DIL did isn't going out of her way, what is? A bit of deliberate overkill to solve feeling insecure and unloved, don't you think?<p>If my son had not snooped and found out her real reasons, who knows how long he would have sat in that empty house without wife, without son, trying to find out what hit him. <p>I'm sorry, but I don't have much sympathy for the "didn't go out of their way," or "didn't do it on purpose" argument. <p>My son has done a magnificent long distance Plan A. (Proud mother speaking here [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) He has given notice to his employer and will be moving to her state in a few weeks because she won't move back "home." OM is still in town, but no contact for now. Who knows how this will work out.<p>BTW, I do still love my DIL in spite of it all. And I did help in the snooping and sleuthing - darn proud of it. My "kid" was dying inside. <p>Thanks for the venting space.
Estes<p>c&i, Feeling unloved does not necessarily mean being unloved by the BS. Feeling insecure and unloved in DIL's case was due more to unresolved personal issues than the reality of the situation.<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
<strong><p>BTW, I do still love my DIL in spite of it all. And I did help in the snooping and sleuthing - darn proud of it. My "kid" was dying inside. <p>]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>What a great lady you are, Estes! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

When my H told me our marriage was over, he was adamant there was no one else. For hours we talked, I questioned and questioned and probed and probed. He stuck to his story. Unfortuntely, since I've been thru this with him before I had "THAT" feeling. I told him I thought there was someone else, he said I was just in denial that I couldn't accept the marriage was over on it's own merit. Said he wanted to live the "SINGLE" life, do what single people do. <p>So .... super sleuth Resilient went into action. <p>That new pager on his hip belt was screaming "AFFAIR". If I wouldn't have deciphered the PIN, it's very likely my H would have left with me thinking he was out there "by himself" [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Finding himself .... yeah, right!<p>
Estes,<p>Your son is very lucky to have you as his Mom. You love him so much, it shows in your posts. Brings tears to my eyes. <p>Love,
Jo

Thanks ladies, <p>Actually, I am in awe and admiration of YOU. You are on the front line in this battle.<p>{{{{BS}}}}<p>{{{{some WS, too}}}}<p>Love, Estes

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:
<strong>res....I listened in on my H's voice pages from OW for 8 mos (several every night) and my H nor OW never knew. Keeping it to myself was very hard for that long,<p>snl..I am impressed jo, that is an extraordinary achievement, are you sure you are still sane?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Are you being a smart alec to me, SnL? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Still Sane? I honestly don't know anymore. But I never thought I'd have the fortitude or the restraint I did to not react to some of the unbelievable things I heard. Not a lot of fun, believe me.<p>Jo

Hi, Marry,<p>Do you want us to help? [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <---- Us snooping [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LOL<p>Estes<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

<p>[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: gottruth? ]</p>

gottruth?<p>Got it. Will write tomorrow. <p>Then I will be away from the computer for a few days while we go see S and GS before S moves. <p>Guess what? S got us tickets to Neil Diamond's concert in Dallas on Sunday. I'm excited!!! <p>Estes

Estes
Have a great trip!!!!!!!!!!!!Neal Diamomd!!!!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

OOPS, Marry:<p>Missed getting your address. You are too quick. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sorry - <p>Estes<p>[ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Snooping.......hmmmmmmmm.<p>Well on the Caerlon thread, I am known as Detective Laughalott, for fun. Being a detective in real life is no fun whatsoever.<p>I, like Resilient went on gut feeling whenever I snooped...each and every time I was right. It is a killer, you find out the most incredible, unbelievable things about your spouse. I guess that you at least know where you stand, but at such a COST to your self esteem.<p>I, too, LB'd big time whenever I found out something new, and it certainly put our recovery back in the infant stages. When he was having the second (or fifth - never admitted to three) A, I knew right away, and I didn't snoop...I didn't need to, and after my prior experiences, I didn't want to. Still, the facts have a way of coming to light. And it hurts just as much.<p>I think I agree with Redhat's statement about stopping when you have enough information...there comes a point where you don't really NEED to know the details. I could have gone 'happily' through my life never knowing WS was actually living with OW for a time, but I snooped and found out. That one fact killed me, put me months behind in recovery and probably was the precursor to the biggest LB'ing session of my life. But HEY! If he had told me all, as I had asked him to, I would never had had the feelings that there was more to know, and I would have dealt with ALL the facts right from the start, and maybe, just maybe, things would have been different. I will never know.<p>The sad thing is that now I don't seem to care.<p>Snoop if you have to. But be prepared for what you will find out....and you WILL find out.