L - hold your head high and stay on that moral high ground. You have nothing to be ashamed of, you've done much more than reasonably necessary to show your alien what he's giving up. Your strength is defined by your decision to make him leave. Don't second guess this. If he wants to come back right away, make sure you take charge and make it on your terms.<p>We're all here for you.<p>WAT

Orchid,<p>My prayers are with you. <p>I agree with HurtbyHubby and MOM (and probably others), don't let him force you out of your home. You and your son deserve to have the stability of remaining in his home.<p>Most of all, don't let WS steal your resolve, your sanity, and most importantly, your health. Take care of YOU and your son. Let your taker come out just a little and look out for #'s 1 & 2.<p>Please take care.
Kev

Oh {{Orchid}}, your life is not coming to a halt it is just changing! You're better, you're stronger, you're wiser. You're equipped for change!<p>It just doesn't become a reality to some WS, that they actually have something to lose, when BS Plan A's too well, for too long.<p>You are the much more attractive option here. Your H has actually been telling you that quite loudly or he still wouldn't be sitting up on the fence. Actions speak louder than words. If rabbit was really so wonderful then he'd be with her, at least more than he's with you. That's not the case now, is it?<p>He just has no motivation to choose. Plan B, acting 'as if", doing a 180, all change that. It changes things because you refuse to be a player in his fantasy world where he gets to have you and her. Fantasy can quick become a reality when you're faced with losing the other( and better) half of your illusion! <p>Of course there are no guarantees he'll have the good sense to chose the marriage. There are not many guanrantees in life. But this is really about him and up to him , he has to choose the marriage. I've never gotten the impression from you Orchid that you want him if he really doesn't want to be there. Honestly, you've been through the ringer.<p>Now he'll have the opportunity to miss all those things about you that have kept him sitting on the fence for sooo long. It will be interesting to see who's hard to resist then!<p>You can do this Orchid!

Gosh, this just isn't fair.. You're a trooper, and we certainly value you so much here, even if WH doesn't. I have to believe he does somehow, but is just lost - I hope he finds himself before it's too late for his own future happiness, although that needn't be a concern of yours right now - do what's right for you, as has been said many times already.

So sorry you are in pain yet again Orchid, dont know what to say to make you feel better.
But you are a lovely kind person and your H just dosent realise what he stands to lose.
I so hope he wakes up soon.
Luv and hugs to you.
Liz

{{{{{{{{{{{{{ORCHID}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>I really don't know what to say that hasn't already been said.<p>You know if I had a MAJIC potion to fix this for you, I would. You are one smart, kind, intuitive, refreshing, GREAT lady!!!<p>Your husband is being ONE BIG JERK right now, and I can't BEEELEEEEVE the "hold" Psycho-Woman is having on him!!!<p>I am praying for you, but I KNOW YOU and your son WILL BE OK.<p>Lots of love,
Lupo

Orchid,<p>We all empathize with you and the pain you are feeling. I really do not have any advice put will post something from another board that may help you:
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A time comes in your life when you finally get it... when, in the midst of all your fears and insanity, you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the voice inside your head cries out - ENOUGH! Enough fighting and crying or struggling to hold on. And, like a child quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside, you shudder once or twice, you blink back your tears and begin to look at the world through new eyes. This is your awakening . <p>You realize it's time to stop hoping and waiting for something to change... or for happiness, safety and security to come galloping over the next horizon. You come to terms with the fact that neither of you is Prince Charming or Cinderella and that in the real world there aren't always fairy tale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you... and in the process a sense of serenity is born of acceptance. <p>You awaken to the fact that you are not perfect and that not everyone will always love, appreciate or approve of who or what you are ... and that's OK. They are entitled to their own views and opinions. And you learn the importance of loving and championing yourself... and in the process a sense of new found confidence is born of self-approval. <p>You stop complaining and blaming other people for the things they did to you (or didn't do for you) and you learn that the only thing you can really count on is impermanence and unexpected . You learn that people don't always say what they mean or mean what they say and that not everyone will always be there for you and that it's not always about you. So, you learn to stand on your own and to take care of yourself... and in the process a sense of safety and security is born of self- reliance. <p>You stop judging and pointing fingers and you begin to accept people as they are and to overlook their shortcomings and human frailties.... and in the process a sense of peace and contentment is born of FORGIVENESS. <p>You realize that much of the way you view yourself, and the world around you, is as a result of all the messages and opinions that have been ingrained into your psyche. And you begin to sift through all the junk you've been fed about how you should behave, how you should look, how much you should weigh, what you should wear, what you should do for a living, how much money you should make, what you should drive, how and where you should live, who you should marry, the importance of having and raising children, and what you owe your parents, family, and friends.
You learn to open up to new worlds and different points of view. And you begin reassessing and redefining who you are and what you really stand for. You learn the difference between wanting and needing and you begin to discard the doctrines and values you've outgrown, or should never have bought into to begin with and in the process you learn to go with your instincts. <p>You learn that it is truly in giving that we receive. And that there is power and glory in creating and contributing and you stop maneuvering through life merely as a "consumer" looking for your next fix. You learn that principles such as honesty and integrity are not the outdated ideals of a bygone era but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build a life. <p>You learn that you don't know everything, it's not your job to save the world and that you can't teach a pig to sing. You learn to distinguish between guilt and responsibility and the importance of setting boundaries and learning to say NO. You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that martyrs get burned at the stake. Then you learn about love. How to love, how much to give in love, when to stop giving and when to walk away.

You learn to look at relationships as they really are and not as you would have them be. You stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes. And you learn that alone does not mean lonely. You also stop working so hard at putting your feelings aside, smoothing things over and ignoring your needs. You learn that feelings of entitlement are perfectly OK.... and that it is your right to want things and to ask for the things you want... and that sometimes it is necessary to make demands. <p>You come to the realization that you deserve to be treated with love, kindness, sensitivity and respect and you won't settle for less. And you learn that your body really is your temple. And you begin to care for it and treat it with respect. You begin to eat a balanced diet, drink more water, and take more time to exercise. You learn that being tired fuels doubt, fear, and uncertainty and so you take more time to rest. And, just as food fuels the body, laughter fuels our soul. So you take more time to laugh and to play. <p>You learn that, for the most part, you get in life what you believe you deserve... and that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You learn that anything worth achieving is worth working for and that wishing for something to happen is different from working toward making it happen. <p>More importantly, you learn that in order to achieve success you need direction, discipline and perseverance. You also learn that no one can do it all alone...and that it's OK to risk asking for help. You learn the only thing you must truly fear is the greatest robber baron of all: FEAR itself. You learn to step right into and through your fears because you know that whatever happens you can handle it and to give in to fear is to give away the right to live life on your own terms. And you learn to fight for your life and not to squander it living under a cloud of impending doom. <p>You learn that life isn't always fair, you don't always get what you think you deserve and that sometimes bad things happen to unsuspecting, good people. On these occasions you learn not to personalize things. You learn that God isn't punishing you or failing to answer your prayers. It's just life happening. And you learn to deal with evil in its most primal state-the ego.
You learn that negative feelings such as anger, envy and resentment must be understood and redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and poison the universe that surrounds you. You learn to admit when you are wrong and to build bridges instead of walls. You learn to be thankful and to take comfort in many of the simple things we take for granted, things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about: a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, a long hot shower. Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself , and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never, ever settle for less than your heart's desire .

And you hang a wind chime outside your window so you can listen to the wind. And you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting, and to stay open to every wonderful possibility.
Finally, with courage in your heart and God by your side you take a stand, you take a deep breath, and you begin to design the life you want to live as best you can...
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God Bless you and your family and especially your WH for he needs the most prayers.

Hi,<p>I can't begin to properly thank you all for your support. I sit at work almost in tears of joy for your support. Ok, I will stop crying and try to smile [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .....<p>You have inspired me to continue on. Feelings of suicide and despair are not welling up like I thought they would. Hm..... level of acceptance? I think so. <p>You all have individually written so much, I truly value all your words and will read them again tonight to get me through what I already know will be the 'crying time'. <p>H just returned my call (I need him to sign insurance papers separating our auto accounts), I have done my part 3 months ago. H says he has a headache, I said I have a heartache and asked if he was at 'his friend's place', he said he has no friends. Don't know what that means and right now don't really care. <p>I have a lot of work on my desk (as always) and having to deal with a real idiot right here at work. Excuse me for this next statement 'guys' but right now 'men' are not my favorite people to deal with, especially stupid ones!!!! LOL! <p>I am trying and not taking my anger out on anyone except to who it is due. I notified my son's teacher and he gave me a big hug. He is such a nice man (don't worry, he is older and engaged to a real nice lady and he is over 6' tall, I felt like a little kid). He said he would be there for me and our son. I asked he be available in case my son needs to talk. He said he would. He told me to get support ASAP, I told him I have it here at MB, he smiled and said good. <p>So that is where I am right now. Thanks so much for caring. Let no one tell you MB is not a good place to be. It just may not be a right fit if your attitude stinks but with that type of attitude there are a lot of places where a person like that won't fit!!! <p>L.

Orchid:<p>Obviously by all the responses (especially those who I haven't seen post in weeks) you have many here at MB that care about you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I know how hard it is to stay strong, but I have found out in the past 10 months that the "strength" we (BS) show really scares the WS.<p>Our co-dependent behavior (I'm not saying you are, but most of us are in some way) only seems to enable the WS.<p>Be strong for you & your son & you will be amazed at how others start to treat you. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I hope the "fog" totally leaves & you can rebuild..For now though<p>It's all about YOU !!!<p>Thanks for all your words of wisdom.<p>Lisa

[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] double damn [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

(((((((((((((((Orchid))))))))))))))))))<p>Love and a big serving of healing light for you, hon.<p>Why can't they see what they have? [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jacky

I am so sorry Orchid!<p>I was hoping and praying that things would be going better for you and your family.<p>If I can be of any support...please feel free to talk. I can't believe these guys--how could they give their families up...for what? The devil really is getting a hold in this society....that is my only explanation. <p>My hope and prayer for you is for a better future. One with happiness and laughter and good times. You definitely deserve it....Pat

Orchid,<p>My prayers and thoughts for you and your son. The continued betrayals hurt so much. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Know that so many care that you are suffering so much.....<p>Desiree

Orchid I am so sorry, you have tried so very hard, you deserve better than this. Don't let that WH of yours do this to you, let him go for now, and see what the future brings (I know easier said than done) <p>You are a good person and derserve to be treated with respect and love.<p> ((((((Orchid)))))<p> Love Sally

Orchid,<p>I am sorry you are hurting and can feel your pain. You have posted to me and I do thank you for all your help. Stay strong girl. That will scare the hell out of him.<p>
SLH

Hi, <p>Thanks again for all your support. I have read everyone and am 'finally' at a loss as to how to repay all for your support. <p>HBH, Faith1 & peach, I am leaving for home now. WS is there. Don't be afraid to leave a message. He called to ask what to make for dinner. This is a new one. Usually he heats up soup for himself when I am not there. Hm.... Not sure what tonight will have. <p>I will try to call both of you on my cell on the way home. <p>Thanks,
L.

Hi big sis,
I'm on ICQ tonite if you need me. Maybe you and H can talk. maybe he'll wake up and you 2 can "clear the air", and he can see what a wonderful blessing you are. Show him this thread if he'll look at it.<p>Hang in there. You are soooo strong and I have sooooooo much respect for you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm here if you need me.<p>
Faith1<p>[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Well things look a bit different for you. Haven't been on MB for various reasons. You are such a great person and your son has such a beautiful (little) mother. I will pray for you, pray for your son, pray for your husband. I will talk to you this weekend if OK. Things are rough right now, but you seem to be quite a bit stronger. God can really help us cope with heartbreaks, and etc. <p>You have planned A quite rightly. Now is the time to plan B. I agree that you should not move out, give him a plan B letter and let him move out. After all, you are there for your son and he hasn't been the best father. I was told that if H doesn't want to move out, then get a lawyer. That is what I will have to do when the time comes, if it comes. <p>Marriage Builders is a good program, but when one does not follow the plan it ends up with separation or divorce. Obviously your H didn't plan A according to the plan. Your H did what he wanted to do and there is no way that a marriage can survive when one is working on the marriage and the other is doing their own thing. I know, I have been in plan A for a while, and I still don't know what is happening. Just I know that my Love-bank is not filling up and building, so there will only be one outcome. <p>Remember the lemon meringue pie, still would like to make a pie with you from your fresh lemons in your backyard. Maybe God will provide us with an outcome acceptable for all of us to enjoy the togetherness and eating. Maybe not this year, but maybe in the next year or two.<p>Orchid, you are in my prayers, my H told me about your thread, and the desire to give you my concern, caring and love is there. Remember that there are the people here to help. I can't post much, but will once in a while. Hopefully talk to you this weekend. Take care, and giving you a BIG(((((((((HUGGGGGGG)))))))).

Orchid - <p> Lot's of hugs!!!!!! I wasn't going to even get online today, but I'm glad I did. I too am so sorry that things took such a turn for the worse. You have been such a great support for me in the short time that I've been here. <p> You are a wonderful example. And I'll be praying for you andyour family. I have learned that God really will only give us what we can handle, and will always make the situation turn out for our good. Hopefully you'll be able to find the miracle in this one, even though it might be hard. Stay strong. K

O,<p>I'm sorry, Honey. You holding up okay? I know you're probably not reading this right now, hopefully you're talking with H.<p>I swear I don't remember signing up for this very long rollercoaster ride, and I know you don't either. You're so strong, hopefully all the MB principals you've learned and applied will get you thru this DIP in the coaster.<p>You're in my prayers this evening.<p>Jo