All you BS... don't you see this was a huge LB for Katie to do this to MM? <p>Resilient: Have you been to: www.gloryb.com? I don't think this was resentment on Katie's part. I think she honestly never wanted mm. It is hard for us to imagine that but it is true - there are a LOT of women who don't care and even seek after married men!<p>Katie, I stand by and continue to support what you did. I fought for you to write it even though I was nearly alone in it. <p>I think there are a lot of people hurting here. It is hard to see there is no right or wrong way to do it - you just did it. Also, these are all opinions and BS feel both ways: yes write her, no don't write her. In the end you just have to do what you think is right and I think you did that. <p>You have NO control over any reaction you get from the BS. All you can do is control your own behavior. <p>You may always appear to be the bad guy in a lot of peoples eyes. I still have a lot of resentment for OW but I hold my H at a higher accountability than her. Yes, she knew he was married but she doesn't know me. He made vows to me and broke them. Ultimately it was his decision and his own fault. If it wasn't that OW there is always another OW around the corner. <p>For me it all boils down to a sanity check. If I were to get a letter like that it would confirm my sanity. All the lies he told would be confirmed lies... not confusion in my brain. It would be like WOW - I am NOT crazy!<p>I have wondered and reread your post sometimes if I will find that letter in my mailbox but you are in NY. You sound a lot like my H OW the longterm affair, just a lot of similiarities. But my H OW chooses not to respond to my attempts to talk.

Yep Notheard, I have been to GloryB and I have posted there as Resilient for some time, they "TOW" know me there and I'm accepted. I have learned alot about OW, and as you Hon, I hold the burden of my H's affair squarely on his shoulders. If you search GloryB for my posts you'll see that.<p>My issue with Katie's letter is I do not see any remorse in it to the W, none. I would have hoped the MB person who helped her with the letter would have suggested it. That's it in a nutshell.<p>Jo<p>[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

You know that Jo. If she e-mails me I probably will apologize. I wrote what was in my heart and mailed it before I lost my nerve.<p>There is no question in my mind that she wonders who I am. there is no question in my mind that he lied about me. You know the old "she's a friend, co-worker, etc."<p>Once I was on my way over to his house. Half way out the door me calls me and says "when you come, don't use your real name. She knows the name Katie Scarlett so we have to think up a new name for you." I took my coat off and stayed home. I told him "ABSOLUTELY NOT!"<p>She suspects something. And he's an ace liar. If for no other reason than to give her a sanity check I think it was important for me to write that letter.<p>If I were going to be really honest the most I could say to her is "i'm sorry if this has hurt you." According to him she doesn't care. As long as the bills are paid she doesn't care.<p>She's a stranger to me. And how presumptive of me is it to assume anything about her.

I don't know who helped her with it but I do think she was honest in writing it. Why should she say she is sorry if she is not. I do believe it is about Katies healing and about giving W the facts. <p>For me, the thing has always been about honesty. I always say I can handle anything - just tell me the truth. If I got that from her it would erase all doubt in my mind. Hopefully Katie and H stories will match up but if not then he has some serious explaining to do. <p>Maybe H already told W and it can confirm in her mind it was the truth. <p>But most likely it is like I said earlier: a huge turning point: they can use it to grow together or let the marriage go. But staying in the same place where they were is a useless, nonexistance.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by notheard:
<strong>
For me, the thing has always been about honesty. I always say I can handle anything - just tell me the truth.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I feel exactly the same way. I'd rather hear the ugly truth 1000x over than some nice fluffy lie!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by notheard:
<strong>Why should she say she is sorry if she is not. I do believe it is about Katies healing and about giving W the facts. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I'm sorry, but if Katie is not sorry for this Affair she participated in, why in the world is she even contacting the MM's W? <p>Given, Katie does need to heal, and I feel for her, but IMVHO, for her to contact W solely to help herself heal is not an act of "selflessness", very much the contrary .... and that's how she got into this affair in the first place.<p>I see no place in Katie's letter where she offers to tell the W anything the WIFE MAY WANT TO KNOW.<p>Jo<p>[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

I gave her my e-mail address.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>I gave her my e-mail address.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, I see that Katie, but from the overall tone of your letter, as a BS, I certainly wouldn't feel safe contacting you.<p>Jo

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>Truely I could just go on my merry way and leave this woman alone. She deserves that. But in a way I want to apologize. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Now I'm really confused. I went back to the original thread and Katie says she wants to apologize. So, she's NOT SORRY, but she wants to apologize???<p>Jo<p>[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Is this the first time that you've noticed that i'm conflicted about this?<p>I remain conflicted on all counts.

I honestly think that the aloofness of the letter makes me seem more approachable.<p>This woman is a native New Yorker. Had I sent her some fluff piece there's NO WAY in the world she would have bought it. I know that I wouldn't.<p>If the situation were reversed I would MUCH rather have a "just the facts" kind of letter. Sleek, clean and honest.

Katie,
Since there are obviously a lot of feelings, questions, disagreement on your topic...would you post if the W or MM contacts you?<p>Did/will you let your current guy know about sending this letter?<p>I'm interested in the outcome, since, as you've said, the letter is sent.

I struggled with giving xMM the heads up, but decided not to. <p>(Talk about a HUGE, GIANT LB!!!) I feel like a traitor. We were supposed to be a team.
But I digress.<p>I have debated as to weather or not I will post if she contacts me. This does not seem like a safe place to do that.<p>I have several MB pen-pals and will probably just share it with them. Believe it or not being roasted my a bunch of BS is not my favorite thing. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Katie,<p>Please don't take this wrong, but I am going to step off this thread because I think I should be posting and helping people that are trying to Marriage Build. <p>I do empathize with you, I know you want to do the right thing. I hope whatever you need to heal and move forward happens for you.<p>And I hope the MM and W can also get through it as well, knowing this can be the most devistating experience in one's life to learn you've been betrayed for several years by your spouse.<p>I really do wish you peace and happiness in your future.<p>Best,
Jo

Katie,
I think I'll move away from your thread as well. Because even though you say you prefer the "ugly truth", you also consider yourself "roasted" by people (not just BS) who are being, if nothing else, very honest. <p>I meant to be helpful, but...having had to go to 2 Xmas parties this past week attended by the former OW, I'm probably not much in the mood for OW to BS contact. Or WS. And replying to you in that mood was not the best use of my MB time.<p>I hope the letter you wrote gives you peace and release, and that your MB friends give you good support if there is backlash to you.

Katie,
As I said, I see you as a person who's looking for truth in her life. Truth leads not only to integrity and honour but also to compassion. I know you are defensive right now, having done what you believe to be right, and getting a lot of flak for that. I'm not flaming you, not consciously anyway! But please understand, your words about xMM's W do set one's teeth on edge. They are not only disrespectful judgements but come over as outright contemptuous. You say you have never met her, and you do know that your XMM lied to you many times. It is more than likely that he lied about her to you as much as he lied to her about you!!! Also, if you heard her yelling in the background while you were on the phone to HER husband, in HER home, especially as she had very good reason to believe that you and he were having an affair, even it seems during her pregnancies - well, I can understand how she might snap under unbearable pain. I said short words of my own to my H, in tones that were not exactly quiet and sweet, when his OW phoned him at our home and expressed sympathy for his misery with me and tried to engage him in clandestine expressions of everlasting love. And when she wanted his support, advice and encouragement in the really tough things of life, like should she think about having another go at her driver's licence? Was I LB-ing? Yes. Was I justified? <p>Katie, it's unkind to say things like "Couch-surfing." This woman may not have the same financial resources you do, so when she gets desperate enough to leave, she may have to rely on friends and family - it seems her husband is not particularly concerned about their safety, their happiness or their welfare and not particularly responsible about financial support. It leads one to believe that she returned to him only because she had nowhere else to go and three children to consider. He probably made her all kinds of promises of reform as well.<p>You made the decision to get out of XMM's life. If you give him the "heads-up" you will be betraying YOUR integrity. You are not his partner! Neither in life or in business. It sounds as if you HAVE been his enabler in alcoholism and the emotional abuse of his wife and children. If you give him the heads-up now, you'll be giving him a chance to cook up a fresh set of lies to serve to her, or to decide that offense is the best defense and get nasty with her.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong><p>A question for BS-
Would you rather have the most perfect letter, with the most perfect words and perfect timing. Or would you rather just know that the A is over once and for all.<p>Choose one.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I'd want the A to be over AND the OW leave me the hell alone.

Emotions were running pretty high all around yesterday and so maybe a few clearifications are necessary.<p>I understand that here I am communicating with spouses (mostly W's) who will strongly identify with his. I don't have a problem with flat footed truth. Nastiness, on the other hand, I can live without.<p>But like I said. Emotions were running high yesterday and so i'll just take it all in stride.<p>So that you know: I was NEVER with him while she was pregnant! I have never called his house. He, on the other hand, has called me from home. That is how I have heard her in the background. In my world "couch-surfing" is not a derogatory term. Everyone here couch-surfs. I live in the land of tiny apartments & $300/night hotel rooms.<p>I have been his enabler FOREVER and that time is gone. I won't give him the heads up and in a way that breaks my heart. But at the same time it signals the end for us. <p>Right or wrong, for a long time he and I have been partners. And my action is a betrayal of that. Partners in crime are partners nonetheless.<p>I need to go and think about something else for a while.<p>Have a good day you guys.
KS

Let me just toss in what I got from reading all of this...<p>From my POV, and it is MY POV. I see a woman who shared a man for 10 years. I see a woman who got left behind while this imperfect man went home to his imperfect life and KS is upset (in MY POV) that he choose this direction. <p>So harm be done in a already imperfect relationship between husband and wife, who may have suspected, but may not have known anything. <p>Katie, I'm sorry but MY gut tells me that this letter written, was to end any possible hope for the MM and his W. You may very well have been a secret for 10 years. And the MM that you were with may have been telling you the truth about her psychosis, after all this is all you know. <p>
Has she ever met you?<p>Have you ever met her?<p>Have the two of you ever seen pictures of one another?<p>Have you ever seen any of her letters to him?<p>Has she ever seen any of your letters to him?<p>Please don't be angry as I do not have the facts to a 10 year old lie, but IMVHO and GUT I think that you MAY be behaving as a scorned OW, and you very well may be healing, but I wonder if your thinking is if I can't/don't want him or he doesn't want me, then lets see her/him want each other after this.<p>If I'm way to out on the limb, then cut it off and I'll shut up. Just offering my clear and present view of what I read, EVEN though I may we way... of base.

H2Y,
I actually think that you could not be more wrong. Truth is he's done things SO much worse that cheating that it's not even funny. And i'm talking about things that she knows about. <p>I have ZERO reason to think that this will cause her to leave him. In fact i'd bet ANY MB member $100 that she WON'T leave. I know her from his words. From his mother and his sister. You see his family all know and NOBODY has told her the truth.
To answer your questions:
I have been to their house (both before they married and during their marriage.) I have seen pictures of her but don't think she's seen any of me. I have read her letters to him. I don't think she's read letters from me.<p>I don't think for one minute that she's psychotic. Quite the opposite in fact. I think she's highly emotional, but psychotic. NO WAY!<p>When things blew up this summer he came to me and I said "GO HOME!" Home is where he belongs. I'm far past tired. I still love him and wish him well. The difference is that I am no longer "in love" with him.<p>I was his friend LONG before we became lovers. LONG before! It was me who sent her flowers on her birthday to keep the peace or becasue he forgot. I didn't have to do that.<p>You're on the wrong limb here.<p>It was when I got to know her through his family and through home movies that it occurred to me that just maybe she didn't have 3 heads. And if it was me i'd want to know the truth.