Hi Conky ~<p>It seems to me that the first step is to take responsibility for your addictions.<p>If your disease (addiction) is causing pain and suffering to others...then it is your responsibility to get help and to get treatment.<p>It may not be your "fault" that you have the addiction. But for every day that you allow your disease to rule your life and your decision making, hurting yourself and hurting other people around you, including your H and kids, you ARE responsible.<p>So no, you don't apologize by saying, "I'm sorry but I'm an addict, I can't help it." Instead you say: "I am sorry that I have not taken responsibility for myself and my disease. I did not care for myself and in doing so, allowed you to be hurt by my selfish decisions made under the influence of a disease that I chose to ignore and allow control over my life. To prove how deeply sorry I am, and to show you I mean business, I am checking myself into therapy, going to 12 step meetings on a daily basis, etc <insert your treatment choices here>."<p>Then, DO those things. <p>As you start to recover, many of your questions will be answered.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Conky4:
<strong>
I know I deserve to lose everything for the pain that I have caused him. I have no right to ask for forgiveness. I just don't know what I can do to fix this. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Romans 3:24-5<p>for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,<p>and are justirfied freely by his grace throught the redemption that came by Christ Jesus<p>I think that you have gotten some very good advice here. I hope that your husband can and will forgive you. I have forgiven my H his affair and that there was a child born of that affair.<p>In general here at MB, I have noticed that those BSs who are most able to forgive have a real knowledge of themselves as flawed and imperfect people. Granted, I didn't have an affair, but there are plenty of other things that I have done in life that require forgiveness, my God's forgiveness, my H's forgiveness.<p>I think your willingness to admit to your failures would have to be appealing to your husband. What you need to watch is that you follow through on what you say you are going to do. Many WSs make a good start on D-day and hold out hope to the BS that there are going to be serious changes, but often times those changes don't happen. The WS feels too guilty, too depressed, too low to really do the work necessary.<p>In most cases, it seems to be the BS who has to do most of the work in recovering the marriage and for me that has been the hardest part. I had to work so hard while he wallowed in his abject misery. I needed him to admit his errors and knowing that he felt very bad about what he had done was helpful in the beginning. It would have been much more helpful to see solid changes much sooner than I did.<p>Wishing you all the best,
MJ

Conky4,<p>I you have been receiving great advice here and I am glad to see that it is at least opening your eyes to the necessity of some serious self evaluation. You made a series of comments I thought I would address.<p>You said: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
I have to admit, I'm scared as hell. The distinct possibility that my husband isn't going to want to go thru this with me, that he is "done" with my problems, scares me. He wasn't witness to most of this. I never drank in front of him, I never let him know how much vicodin I had taken, and until the other nite, he honestly did not know I was cheating. (My shift work allowed things to take place that he didn't know about, I work graveyards, so I don't see him 4 days out of the week at all. By the time I get home from work..he has left for work, and I'd leave to go to work before he got home. )<hr></blockquote><p>Conky, what you are saying here is that you really haven't had a marriage. No wonder it was drifting. You are binging on alcohol, doing Vicadin, and having sex with many men. He doesn't know about any of it EXCEPT the sex. You don't even see each other for days at a time. <p>Are you wondering why you got no affection from him? You didn't come close to meeting his needs. And apparently most of yours were masked or met by your activities at parties and with the men in your department.<p>My point is that IF you want to be married to your H, he needs to know who he is married to and who she wants to become. If you want to continue the same life style my bet is the marriage is over. If you want to change your lifestyle and yes that probably means a new job, but perhaps not if things can be worked out, then he needs to know what your plan is for changing. He needs to know how he can help you. He needs to know you need HIS help more than you need the help of your "friends". <p>In short, Conky he needs to know the score and the name of the game he has been in without his knowledge.<p>
You also said: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I know I deserve to lose everything for the pain that I have caused him. I have no right to ask for forgiveness. I just don't know what I can do to fix this. I mean, I don't think it's gonna sit well with him, for me to say,..oh sorry honey I know I just ripped your heart out, but guess what..its because I have an addiction problem..nothing personal ...really... Do I give up trying to save my marriage, and work on fixing myself first or do I try and do both? The thought of losing my kids is really unbearable. <hr></blockquote><p>I don't know about deserve, No one here can make that judgement. What you have done has made it "likely" that you may lose everything. You deal with criminals and you know the world is not quite that black and white. Your situation isn't black or white either.<p>What you haven't factored into your thinking is your H. You see if he decides he Needs YOU in his life, that he has enough love, and can handle HIS loss of self-esteem, then you deserve what you get: a better marriage and having a man that really loves you. <p>What I am trying to say here, is this isn't just about you so it isn't about what YOU deserve. THis is about your H and your children as well as you. What do they deserve? Probably,not what has happened or is going to happen, but they DO deserve your best effort to rebuild your marriage.<p>It is in all of their best interests to have you happy, healthy, and helping them with their lives. That won't happen if you lose everything.<p>Complicated isn't it. I suspect your adult life has been focused primarily on your issues. You are now learning that your issues are your families issues and they need to know what they are.<p>It isn't going to sit well with him no matter what you say or don't say. That is a fact. BUT, it may save your marriage if you tell him what your issues are and what your plans are for addressing them. Frankly, few of them is he likely qualified to help you with. However, my bet is that he loves you far deeper and stronger than you think. You just were never around or too busy recoverying from your other activities to notice. You are noticing now that he is deeply hurt and your family is deeply hurt.<p>It will get worse Conky no matter what path you chose. But if you are honest with him. I mean sit him down and tell him "no questions until I am finished and then I will answer everything and anything you ask. Further, I am telling you this because contrary to what it appears I do want our marriage and I do want you as a husband. Finally, I am going to need you like I never have before. Here is my plan for addressing my problems. <p>So listen to me and give it a few days, then ask away. Also if you have some ideas of how I can get the help I need, please tell me."<p>These are the kind of comments that are likely to help your H in the long run and may help you two have the marriage you apparently have never had.<p>Conky, if you go back and read any posts here I would recommend that you read "Plain Jane's" and her H's "Davidb". She ended up going to a clinic to address her issues with SA and other addictions. <p>They are still recovering, but it is working. Perhaps PJ will post to you. She is a very nice lady and her H is strong man.<p>All is not lost here. We have seen worse situations saved. They were saved because the WS really wanted to save the marriage and the BS did their best to help.<p>Hang in there Conky and keep posting and reading. But most of all let your H into your life. Let him know what you have lived and let him know how you would like to live in the future.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Hi Conky,<p>I am a WS who had several encounters with various people over a five year period. Last year I went to a treatment center for Sexual Addiction/Compulsitivity. <p>I too have struggled with various addictions. Always replacing one with another. I have been in recovery for drugs and alcohol. I am a compulsive over eater. I am a compulsive shopper. I will do anything to excess. <p>The books from Patrick Carnes are excellant choices. Also a good one is "She has a secret" by Dr. Doug Weiss. Not to much is written about the female SA, but they are common, much more than you think. The female SA gets there validation from being attractive to other people. I have always felt worthless. Going all the way back to the age of 5. The only way men paid attention to me was sexual. I didn't know how to have a relationship with a man and set boundries. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't. I couldn't say no.<p>I am glad that you told your husband the whole truth. It took me 6 long months to finally come all the way clean, but I am glad that I did. It was only after all my stuff came out, was I able to recover and have some sort of normalcy in my life.<p>Take care and If you have any questions, please feel free to email me. Plainjane1964@msn.com<p>PJ

Corky,<p>Everything you have said could've been taken directly out of the many, many things I have read on the subject of SA. As Zorweb said in her last post, your description of your situation is exactly how Carnes defines a sex addiction. <p>You said "So when you mention a sexual addiction, I don't know if that is exactly accurate. I wouldn't hesitate to say that I have an addiction to affection and the feeling of being needed/loved. The sex involved in my encounters was in essence just a pay off for the stuff I really wanted..affection/desire/need. That person got what he wanted physically, and I got what I needed emotionally."<p>It's very often misunderstood for the same reasons you are misunderstanding - uninformed people think it's about sex when it actually has more to do with the addictive cycle triggered by guilt, depression, low self esteem, stress, diappointment, faulty core beliefs. <p>Most (but not all) SAs have a history of abuse as a child (emotional, physical or sexual) and there's almost always a catalytic event (your mother's death). There's almost always a concurrent addiction - gambling, alcohol, overeating... Just read the book. <p>I think the most important thing you can do for your marriage is to identify the problem and get help immediately. Again, it's a win/win situation. You will most likely never recover without help and possibly a 12-step group, and your husband will see real effort on your part to make changes. Your husband has just been given the blow of his life. Experts say that learning of your spouse's affair(s) is more painful than the death of a spouse or a child! If you love him, it's your job to help him recover and the best way to do that would be for you to recover. Otherwise, it's bound to repeat itself (as OW once told me...uuuggghhh) and at some point his hurt will definitely be too great and his trust too little for him to want to recover the marriage. My WS (cajunky) has posted a few times here - it might be a good example to you of what typically happens if you try to do it alone. <p>Tread carefully when using the label, "sexual addiction" with your husband right now. All he knows is that he is HURT BADLY. I love Bramblerose's statement, "So no, you don't apologize by saying, "I'm sorry but I'm an addict, I can't help it." Instead you say: "I am sorry that I have not taken responsibility for myself and my disease. I did not care for myself and in doing so, allowed you to be hurt by my selfish decisions made under the influence of a disease that I chose to ignore and allow control over my life. To prove how deeply sorry I am, and to show you I mean business, I am checking myself into therapy, going to 12 step meetings on a daily basis, etc <insert your treatment choices here>." That was perfect, Bramblerose. <p>I felt initially that my WS was trying to take the blame off of himself and claim that he wasn't responsible for what he had done to me and our family/families because he had an illness. I then found a paragraph in another one of Carnes' books that helped me to process my hurt with his problem. It said, "People generally fear the notion of addiction because they believe the addict will not be held responsible for the consequences of his or her unacceptable or even life-threatening behavior. Again, the parallel with alcoholism helps alleviate these apprehensions. For example, drunk driving is the major cause of deaths from car accidents, yet our knowledge of alcoholism as an illness has not lessened the legal consequences for the alcoholic. If anything, the trend is toward tougher penalties. So, too, sexual addicts must be accountable for the consequences of their behavior."<p>Every action has a consequence. Only your husband can decide now whether he thinks the marriage is worth the risk to his emotional wellbeing. Again, though, I do think that the best thing you can do for you, him and the marriage is to get help before it's too late. <p>Good luck,
AB

Dear Plain Jane, Just learning, and almost broken; I don't know what to say other then thanks. I have ordered the book, on your recommendations. --Just learning, you are right, I really haven't had a marriage. For so long now it has been just like 2 room mates sharing a house. And lately, I've totally given up on all of them, my husband and my kids.
I believe in honesty, and I try to self evaluate often to see if I am being true to myself. For a long time now, I havent been. If it does turn out that I am a SA, then I am happier for finally knowing where to start to fix the problem. I've had issues for many years, and just thot I was really screwed up for feeling the way I did...knowing that there are others going thru the same thing, somehow makes me feel not so alone.
My husband called me from work this morning. He said he was coming home. I have to say my heart skipped a beat because I thought he was coming home to kick me out of the house. He came home because he was so distraught, he couldnt work, and his partner told him he needed to come home and talk to me.
We talked...for the past 5 hrs. I explained to him everything that I had been thru, my problems with alcohol/vicodin, and my guilt for keeping things from him. Again, if I am going to get thru this I have to be totally honest. It wasn't easy. I could see the pain in his eyes. He also told me a few things that I didn't know about him, that he had kept secret. (no--nothing as drastic as an affair..just feelings of depression) He also said that he didn't feel comfortable telling me he was having a problem. We both have become so separate from each other.
I told him I needed to get help for me. I wasn't doing it for him or the kids, I had to help myself. If they benefited from it also, then it was an added plus. But if we are to stay together, I need to work on fixing my issues first, and in doing so, my issues w/my family would come in line. I told him I needed his help, more than I ever have, but I would understand if he wasn't up to giving anything for me, after all the pain I have caused.
I fully see him as the victim, there is no question in my mind. I do not lay blame for anything aside from the lack of affection..but that also can be re-directed back at me for not opening up to him. The situation is ugly. But I am willing to change, and I want help. I confessed to him, because I couldn't live with myself anymore...as difficult as it was looking at him everyday knowing what I had done, it was 10 times worse looking at myself in the mirror. I left our marriage in his hands, if he wants us to try to work this thru, then I, by all means will do whatever it takes to save it. I married him because I love him, I haven't forgotten that. And by the Grace of God, he hasn't either. He agreed to help me thru my problems, and support me, so that we can then work on US.
I can't over emphasize the thanks I feel for everyone that has responded to my post. I know that as the WS..I am akin to the enemy to most on the board. For you to reach out and give advice as to what I need to do, I am forever grateful. I do want my marriage to work, and I am willing to do everything it takes to make sure it does. It is a bumpy road, and I'm bound to feel discouraged and hopeless, It gives me strength to know that there are others out there who are willing to give encouragement. Thank you. Colleen

Colleen - I think you are well on your way. Please invite your H again to talk to us also.<p>Let me be the first to say that you are no longer a WS. You WERE a WS. You are not the "enemy." You are one of us.<p>WAT

C4,
I am as WS who had one night A's W/4 different men, four yrs ago. I struggle with similar issues that you do as well. I have wanted to go on an alcochol binge but vowed never to get addicted since both parents are already. <p>As a WS I think you need to tell him all, I'm sure he will want to know all so he can "fix the error so it don't occure again". By you telling him everything, it releases the weight on you. He will be hurt by all of it, but be there for him. (I had to plan A my H after telling all). <p>Congratulations on your first step. Be expecting an emotional roller coaster, and try it with out the drinks. You both may need to get on anti-deppresents for awhile to make it through with out harming anyone or yourselves. I suggest Well butrin because it keeps you fuctional and you can use it as an excuse to say your quitting smoking.<p>When ever you feel down, want to do any harm, just want to talk, know that we are all here for you. I know that these people here are better then any of my family and friends where while the roller coaster was going. <p>Good luck and I will pray for you and family. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Sherry

C4,<p>I was directed here by a mutual friend, and wow after reading your thread I was flooded with many memories of the pain of learning of my W's (Keep Smiling) affairs. I too am in law enforcement, a department of 45, so it is much smaller than yours. I do know that in this profession there is a good chance of an affair by you or your spouce. I never strayed, but I have been tempted in the past. <p>In my experience, women in law enforcement tend to be looking for exceptance and or approval from other officers, and with that the women I have worked with tend to end up in affairs with fellow officers. I know many people I work with have strayed in their marriages, and many keep it within the department or with people they deal with throughout the day. So, just out of curiousity, do you feel that any of your As were to gain exceptance from your fellow officers?<p>As my W said she had 4 As each a one night stand with the exception of one wich was a two time thing. I think that everyone has already said give him the truth. I think it was the most painful thing for me to hear but I wanted....needed to know the truth. Whatever you do don't hold back on information, if you are untruthful and he feels or detects you are being untruthful, you will only damage what trust is left, and the amount of time it takes to regain the trust that has been lost. I was only told of one A from the beginning and learned of the other 3 As 2 months later, this was basically putting me through the pain of learning of the As twice. So, please give it all to him so he doesn't have to experience the pain twice. I thought the best way for my W to tell me was to have her write it down, with the details, the who's, how's, when, all that, and the events leading up to the encounter. If you are concerned about it being used against you in court in the possibility you do end up in D, then perhaps that isn't a great idea, just throwing out thoughts here [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think the biggest thing that helped me was my Ws willingness to make things right, she did everything she could to make me feel better. She was there for me, she comforted me, and was very eager to work on the trust issue so she would always tell me where she was and call me on her breaks. These things gave me peace of mind when we weren't together. I felt very alone when I learned of her As, and she did her best to make me feel that she was there for me. So, I suggest you try to really treat him well, be there for him, and when he gets angry or upset or he is depressed about the As, don't take affense to it, just be there for him. <p>Bring your H here, this place was a lifesaver for me, I don't think I could have made it had it not been for the help I recieved here. I know personal friends and friends at work tend to get tired of hearing your problems, there is always someone here who will listen, and give you advice or encouragement. <p>Good luck,
E

Dear SEM,
I'd have to say the first time I strayed 7 yrs ago, was out of a desire for acceptance. I didn't feel like I was part of this new dept. and wanted the guys to accept me into their family. Several men later, I was more a part of this dept. but, my self esteem was very low. I found counsel with a friend via MDT who directed me to church. I ended up transferring to his station, so I would be closer to someone giving me support and encouragement to save my marriage, than others who were so willing to take advantage of the fact I was having problems.
This past year though, I don't know what happened. (Other than I got drunk at a party and someone made moves that I didn't want to resist.) We ended up having sex in his car. I went back to the party, he left and went home to his family. Later that same even one of my Sgt's came out to check on me while I was outside trying to sober up. He kissed me. We went back inside like nothing happened. We ended up having sex a few weeks later.
For the most part though, this past year, I wasn't trying to be accepted by my co-workers on that level anyway. With the exception of one encounter, alcohol played a part in all of them. Vicodin played a part in the other. My friend that was offering counsel early on, was constantly the recipient of my emails of guilt..why do I do this.?? etc.. I always felt terrible afterwards, but continued to do it. The Sgt. was the only one I had sex w/more than once. Everyone else was a one nite stand.
I've been completely open with my husband. I've asked him if he wanted all the details, and he said no. He just wanted to know if I loved any of these men. I told him no. He is really having a hard time with this--UNDERSTANDABLY. He didn't sleep at all last nite, and when I asked him what he was thinking, he would just say.."what is going to happen if I can't bring myself to touch you anymore..." I didn't know what to say other than, we will cross that bridge when we come to it. I told him that I needed affection in my life prior..and I think that was just sticking in his mind that if I don't get it NOW im gonna stray again. I told him no. I have had 7 yrs to think about everything..this is all new to you. As long as I know he loves me..I'll be there for him.
We layed in bed this morning, and he wouldn't touch me, that kind of hurt. But I understood. I ended up asking him to just do something for me...he agreed. We both got naked, and held each other. And talked. He didnt want to touch me..he said all he could think about was the other men. I told him over and over..they did'nt mean anything...after awhile he did finally touch me. We ended up having sex..to my surprise. We haven't since OCT. He's been very "clingy"..I don't know if this is normal, but I'm letting him do whatever he thinks he needs to do. He hasn't eaten..which concerns me, but he says he will. //When he needs space I give it to him, if he wants me holding him, Im there..
This weekend has just been one hill after another..roller coaster isnt the word for it. And I know this is just the beginning. We still have a looooooong way to go. and a lot of work. My kids are calling so I gotta get..thanks again for everyones help..

WOW,<p>He sounds just like I did when I first learned of the first A. I didn't eat for over a week, I lost 20 lbs (many refer to this as the infidelity diet). I too lost sleep, many nights typing away on this sight, it was pretty hard to get through the first couple of weeks and months, I often times would have to function at work with 1 and 2 hours of sleep a night, if that, and as I said no food for over a week. He is still absorbing all this so it will take some time, try to get him snacks, something he can eat a little of at a time. Perhaps you could get some over-the-counter sleeping pills, those should help, I was afraid to take them because I work at 0430 and I was afraid I'd sleep through the alarm.<p>I would also suggest going to the doctor and getting anti-depressents for both of you, this helped my W and I a great deal in our first 4 months, this will help with the sleep as well. I wish now that I had taken the anti-ds up front, it would have helped me in my sanity at work and home, I did make it a point not to tell anyone at work that I was taking them in fear of the guys finding me incompitent.<p>The sex thing, I still have problems not picturing other men having sex with my W while we make love, that is a big "trigger" for me but it is a way I do feel closer to W, so it hasn't slowed us down. I too was afraid I would have issues in that area when I first learned of the As, so me being a fixer, I had to give it a shot the first night and that was very difficult with those images. Now I don't have the problem as bad as I used to, so I figure that will go away eventualy, as many of my problems have.<p>You sound like you are doing the right thing with giving him affection. Make him feel like number one, give him back rubs and things, basically show him you are there even if he wants to be alone, try to do things for him that you know he will appriciate. The big thing I needed was reassurence, and by her doing everything she could for me was huge. <p>One of the things we did first was we started going out together again, we basically started dating again. We went out to the hotel we stayed at the night of our wedding, and went hiking together, and the movies, anything we could without the kids. I prefered to go to places with few people, I felt it hard to be around large groups of people, I felt like they would all know how unhappy we were together. <p>Another thing I would suggest is getting counseling, for both of you. I found counseling very helpful at first, eventually we were doing so well with following the Dr Harlys concepts and thing we ended up with nothing to talk about in counseling, but at first it was a great help, and it would probably help you in your issues that you are having.<p>I know many people here suggest leaving your job if your As happened with people at work. It does sound like you have many districts you can transfer to, I would suggest you think about transferring to a different assignment or station, this will help your husband know that you won't be hanging out with the same crowd, and the OMen who will always be a threat in his eyes. You are in a situatin where you work with many men so that will be difficult on your H. My wife works in an environment of 50/50 men and women, and one of the OM had sex with her in the womens restroom at her work while they were working, so I am very insecure when she goes to work. She did transfer to a closer store, so that made a big difference in how I felt about her going to work.<p>Ok I am just rambling at this point, I hope this all helps a bit. Good luck again. E