<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by A husband:
<strong>She has had huge crying jags about her being stupid and a fool for staying with a man like me. She has been beating herself up for a few months for it now. There is nothing I can do but tell her how much I love her. I try to talk about all the good we have and she tells me it is all a lie. She says she doesn't want to be this woman who will accept this. She tells me that if she keeps me then she is saying it is ok.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, if it's any consolation, I'm planning to leave my H (Plan B), and I do none of these things. I think it's a good sign if she is transparent about her feelings and verbalizes them. I got so sick of my H not giving a rat's a$$ about my feelings, that I keep them to myself.<p>I am two different people--the person you see here and the person my H sees. He sees the perfect wife who does everything his way, makes no waves, and certainly doesn't commit the sin of having feelings or, worse, showing them. I am exactly what he wants, a comfortable piece of furniture.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Conqueror:
I am two different people--the person you see here and the person my H sees. He sees the perfect wife who does everything his way, makes no waves, and certainly doesn't commit the sin of having feelings or, worse, showing them. I am exactly what he wants, a comfortable piece of furniture.<hr></blockquote><p>Awwwwwe Conqueror,<p>Honey, please consider yourself HUGGED ....<p>{{{{{{{{{{{ Conqueror }}}}}}}}}}}}}

Dear AH,
I agree with Bernzini that the suffering (of the guilty and the innocent involved in this) will never end and you cannot apologize for it enough... These are just a couple of the "minor" consequences for infidelity that the temptor neglects to reveal upfront... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If it's any consolation to you, just be glad that no children were born as a result of your affair. Been there, done that, & still paying the price... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bernzini:
<strong>
I see now what I have done because it was done to me. I fully see the hurt and pain that I caused because I have suffered so greatly because of my husband's affair, </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Bernzini,<p>Maybe you can answer this question for me: My H had two wives before me, each of them the WS, so he has been the BS TWICE. Then, he waits for ME to come along, also a BS in my previous M, and decides to hit ME between the eyes with an A!<p>Since you've lived both sides of this, what do you make of it? How can a person live through this pain and then go on to inflict it on someone else? And not only that, but someone they KNOW barely survived it the first time?<p>This H has far surpassed my ex-H in being the one person in all the world who has hurt me more than I've ever been hurt in my life, and I NEVER thought anyone could take the top spot from my ex-H. To show how sickening this is to me, when I realized that an A was truly what was happening, in trying to decide whether to take him back or not, I realized that if my ex-H was not currently married, I'd give HIM another chance first. What an eye-opener it was to face that! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The only thing I can figure that would possess someone to do that to another human being is that he must just hate my guts, and maybe the reason he came back was he just wasn't finished tormenting me yet. Honestly, I cannot think of a single thing in my entire life I ever did to deserve this, much less since I've been with him.<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Thanks for the hug Resilient. In a weird way, there is a little bit of satisfaction in knowing that ~I~ am now living a double life and the rug will be pulled out from under him for a change.<p>He'll of course be the victim even though I explained Plan A and Plan B to him the day after D-day and what would necessitate my going to Plan B, not to mention all the times in 10-1/2 years I have asked him to treat me with respect and to please stop hurting me.<p>I wish I could convey to any reluctant WS just how damaging their post-D-day behavior can be. The pile of disrespect and humiliation he heaped on me did not reach immovable proportions until he, in the face of me telling him what was necessary for recovery, CONTINUED to have contact with OW and CONTINUED to lie, manipulate, deceive me and dared to act like HE was the victim. It is everything that he's done SINCE D-day that has destroyed this M, probably beyond repair.<p>So, if any WSs are reading this who really truly want their M to recover, you need to do a 180 and STOP doing everything you were doing during the A. To do anything else is just switching from backstabbing to frontstabbing, looking right into your BS's eyes while you're plunging the knife into their heart and twisting it with all your might. If you truly care about your BS, I urge you NOT to do this.<p>As I told my H, "Wouldn't it be tragic for our M to survive an A, only to end because of something like this [yet another stupid lie]?<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Well, Conquerer, I would have to echo "A Husband" and say that when a person has an affair, it is not because they hate their spouse. It's opportunity. I am sure your husband does not hate you, and he didn't hate you when he messed around on you. It's not hate. Not at all--well, I don't know, that may be the circumstance for a few affairs. But not for me.<p>It's opportunity. That's the name of the game, that's all. Like most WS's, I never set out to fool around. Heck, I was a nice, church-going girl to begin with. I was not a floosy, I did not flirt with men, I am very shy and quiet and unassertive. I don't smoke, drink, or engage in any risky business. I had never ever been in a bar in my life before that stage of my life. I had only a mere handful of mostly (but not all) nice boyfriends before marriage, and the first man that I was ever intimate with was my first husband.<p>Opportunity mixed with a low self-image. Yup, that's it. Your husband probably felt so bitter, so unworthy from his past experiences, thinking (maybe just subconciously) that he needed attention to bolster his self-worth. And let's face it--we don't consciously just go around telling our spouses that they are fantastice and wonderful all the time. We just assume that they know that we love them. We just assume that a lifestyle of domestic comfort and contentment is enough to prove our love to our spouse.<p>And so, when some stranger else walks in just by chance and says "Take me places, baby!" it is an awesome feeling--like "Gee, I must be really cool after all!" Who's going to pass up the opportunity to prove their worth--even though in the end it is to their destruction and counters their worth? Who is going to pass up the opportunity to be pampered, praised and spoiled, to be told that they are sexy and irresistable?<p>I know that's what happened with my husband--he was in the wrong place at the wrong time playing with fire. He has hit a major plateau in his career and I hounded him for it--he spent a lot of time in chat rooms as a comforting past time. And in time he met Miss Kitty, who wanted to get away from her husband. And the rest is history.<p>He often pleads with me "I never ever looked at another woman before that," as if that is ever going to bring me comfort with that statement. That he "looked" at another woman once is damage enough.<p>Oh, I guess you asked me for my perceptions given that I have been on both sides. Yes, opportunity it was that lead me down that path unwittingly.<p>There I was, after working days at a gas station and nights at McDonald's taking a break only to feed my baby and change diapers on two kids. Trying to pay for rent and groceries and constant car repairs on about $1,100 a month. I got sick of it all, traded 2 or 3 jobs for one and went active duty army, and as a result of a lot of PT to get into shape, I was a size 6 for the first time in my life. Boy I was cute--in a place where there was 20 guys for every girl. Lots of opportunities. <p>One night, at a training school, I took the opportunity to go to the club, out of boredom, for the first time ever. Then this handsome young man in a cowboy hat took the opportunity to ask me to dance. He was so cute--pretty brown eyes, a sweet smile complete with dimple, polite, nice Wrangler butt, and just tall enough that when he danced with me his cheek was right against mine (I'm only 5'2") So not like my sloppy obese lazy husband who was probably hanging out with his loser friends back home. My cowboy told me that I was "the purtiest thang he ever did see," and I must be really sharp to be in the school I was, and on and on. Wow! It had been years and years since my husband ever told me that I was "purty." Or sharp.<p>I took the opportunity to hang on his every word, however, I did not seem to take the opportunity to tell him that I was married with two kids--heck! I loved the attention that I was getting from this cute guy for the first time in forever--why would I push that away by mentioning that I was married? I really hungered for it, I needed it more than gold. For all the last years, I had given and given and had not gotten--I mothered children, worked hard at my dreary jobs, and provided companionship to a very high-maintenance husband. Now was my turn to be the "taker." <p>At first, all it was--was fun. For me, unlike "Husband," it was not sex. It was admiration and affection that I needed.<p>Romantic, huh? It's the stuff that Harlequin Romances are made of. I can only say that I look back on this experience with loathing.<p>Let me just add that my OM was not, in any way, a cocky predatory male with questionable morals. He was a very sweet young man. He did not deserve the distinction of being "the Other Man." He should not be blamed at all. I lied to him and that's why he was involved with me. I used him to get what I needed, as Amazed says, a "human kleenex."<p>I took the opportunity to fall madly in "love" with my attention-giver. I took the opportunity to call up my poor husband and tell him about my new cowboy friend (I never lied to him, ever.) I INSISTED on a divorce, but never had the guts to file. My ex filed, and due to the ease of getting a divorce these days, it was over in less than a month. (Folks, it is TOO easy to get a divorce. We really need to remedy this--talk to your politicians, PLEASE!)<p>My cowboy friend was transferred to a new duty-station about a week later and I never saw him again.<p>I grieved. I grieved so fully, so full of agony that I was physically sick. I didn't know exactly (this is the fog) what I mourned. The absence of my friend? The demise of my marriage? The way I had callously hurt my children? That I was a big hunk of crap altogether? The depression was so horrible that it filled every aspect of my life. In my despair, I found comfort in yet another man, who was even more handsome, charming, accomplished than my cowboy friend. This was my second husband.<p>About 6 months after we started dating, my ex called me one night and said "I know now why you left me, and if you had only told me and had given me the opportunity, I would have changed." But it was too late.<p>When I married my 2nd husband, and the fights did not disappear but only increased and the tears began and the anxiey for my children took hold of my heart, the whole picture fell into place, and here I am, as you see me.<p>My ex shacked up with this really icky loud-mouth behemoth woman, they moved into a run-down trailor house, and I have to have a screaming match with HER every time I try to make a move to be with my girls, to see them or have any influence on them at all. If my child support is a day late, I am reminded quite forcefully. <p>So, that's my story. It all began out of opportunity. I never thought that I would ever be a person to cheat on my husband, yet I did.<p>You, Conquerer, like I, probably think our husbands just came back to torture us, but deep down, I know that's not the case. It takes a lot of love, care and understanding of the big picture in order to get from "Point A" to "Point B" after you have screwed up in life.<p>Heck, my husband, after I left him, would call me up crying humbly that I should give him a second chance. The next week, he would call me up, scream at me, rip my head off, blame me for all ill in his life, and threaten me with legal action for "taking his son from him." <p>When I did come back to him, I felt that I was the biggest sucker in the world because he kept looking at naked chicks on the computer--and sometimes even talking to them. I gave up every stinkin thing in life--career, home, like I said, and then I even gave the last thing I had, my pride, when I came back to him. <p>Now I know he was not "just out to get me." He felt given over to the crimes he commited, denial, rage, frustration.<p>You see, I do believe in Satan. He wants people to believe in lies. He wants people to not recognize the greatness in themselves. He wants each and every person to believe that they are just crap. He wants them to aid in his work and betray other people, break hearts and instigate hatred. He wants people to be selfish. And he will do anything at all to get you to believe all these things.<p>Some people become so weak, given over to these lies that they know nothing else.<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Bernzini ]</p>

Resilient,
Just wanted to give you my personal experience w/ my MM as far as your question of STDS is concerned. First, I have never had any STD. Second, both MM I was involved w/ never once wanted to wear a condom. Initially, I made them. However, w/ time you get comfortable in the relationship and I no longer forced the issue. I can say that I am not intimate w/ anyone else besides my MM - my choice & his selfish requirement. Also, as far as the issue of birth control. I am always amazed at how both MM never questioned me in this area. In my state CS for 1 child is equivelent to 24% of a man's gross income. You'd think that a MM would want to go out of his way to prevent this from happening. No! Both my MM are college educated, intelligent men who I am quite sure are familliar w/ how babies are made. Not once, and I repeat not once did either ask if I was protecting myself from pregnancy. Unbeknownst to them I had my tubes tied 8 years ago.

Ahusband,
Thankyou so much for this thread. You sound so much like my husband, although he felt he "loved" OW at the time, now he looks back and wonders why.She is not the type of woman he would spend time with if he were really single. I have been fortunate that after the affair her true colors have become evident to all, but I was also fooled by her, she seemed like the perfect PTA mom.
He says it was the challenge, the feeling of being a teenager again,(i guess this goes along with having sex in a car!).
Anyway, I really want to repay you for your honest humble thread.
Most of us can relate to your wife,therefore we can help you help her.
I also struggle with feeling like a dope for keeping cheating husband around, how pathetic am I , that I would settle for this?
Here is my thought process on staying:<p> Some wise person told me when I started this journey "look back on your marriage, was it more good or bad?" It sounds like you two have spent a lot of fun times together.More good than bad.<p>My husband is human and makes mistakes. As long as this was a mistake and not a character flaw I can survive it.<p>60% of marriages face infedelity, Im not so special. Leaving would prove what?<p>If I try now to make my marriage the best it can be, I have a chance that it will be better than before. If I quit I will never know.<p>I struggle with seeing people who know about affair. Its embarrassing! Some people are supportive(quietly), some people look at me with pity (icky), some snicker, some look at me like I must not have been doing things right at home(the worst) but, I can get through that! I remember they also look at my husband differently, some in good ways , some in bad.<p>I think you are right that your wife is beating you up to watch you feel bad. It is very tempting still to lash out at my husband when I feel bad.
It helps to see him in pain when I feel bad. To say STUPID!!!!
I have really worked on the feeling that I am so superior to him - no matter what I ever do in this marriage it will never be as bad as ........
These are MY struggles. He has his own. Every time I try to "fix" him I see a failure I need to work on.
Try this, the next time she lashes out, find out why she is feeling insecure at that moment. It may be something as stupid as a commercial that brings it back. reassure her that what you have now is real, you are being honest, tell her how good it feels to have a clear conscience, how you sleep better, tell her your sorry. Hug her and say "its all gonna be ok I promise"
Sorry for going on so long.
How long since this all came back up?
Take the emotional needs questionnaire with her.
It can be good again.

Conqueror<p>RE: Maybe you can answer this question for me: My H had two wives before me, each of them the WS, so he has been the BS TWICE. Then, he waits for ME to come along, also a BS in my previous M, and decides to hit ME between the eyes with an A!<p>OMG, this is exactly my story. My H says that he was very self-righteous about both of his ex-wives’s affairs. They both left him for their OM’en. He says that his affairs were the Good Lord’s way of brining him down a notch and making him eat humble pie. <p>Just don’t know why he had to do it while married to me. I too do not know what I did to be the ‘chosen BS’ for this. Did I not get enough of this infidelity crap in my previous marriage? <p>Let’s see, he was faithful to two wives who both cheated on him and left him. But now, married to a woman who would never do that… he does it. I think I need to get a lot meaner.<p>
And I think that Bernzini analysis of they did it as a way to booster their self esteem is exactly right. Though that does not prevent me from feeling like it was 'done to me' at times.

Bernzini, <p>"You guys are awful, you really are. This poor fellow is trying to make amends and you are hammering him. Shame on you both. People screw up--are they not allowed to try to rectify their mistakes, no matter how vile, and try to change their lives"<p>Excuse me?? I am awful?? Poor fellow? Give me a freakin break! He USED another human for his lowlife sexual needs. LIED to her. As I am sure he has used others before. Pretended to care for her. And I should feel sorry because he is not man enough to admit that he made a mistake?? He isn't admiting he screwed up. He is too busy blaming someone else. Why is this okay with you? Because a person who sleeps with a MM deserves what she gets? Doesn't deserve humane treatment? But it's okay that he slept with her because....what was that reasoning again? We can forgive him, even though he blames his failure as a H on someone else, but we can't forgive or think about the woman he used? He is wrong!!! There is never an excuse to use another person. And as for his friends all using women, hey, they are HIS friends. <p>I think you have missed my point totally. I am not saying a person doesn't deserve forgiveness or understanding. Lord knows we all make mistakes. This I agree totally with you about. But I think he needs to admit what he did to the woman he used too. I think he is being less than honest. Let him be just a little bit of a man and ADMIT HIS WRONG. All of it. <p>You have no idea if he is even telling the truth about this woman he used and discarded. She could be your daughter. Your niece. She could be a single, young, naive girl that he lied to and used. How can you take what he says about her at face value? He has proven he is a good liar. The girl is not here to defend herself. She is stamped slut and put out of your mind.
SHAME ON YOU!<p>Men, REAL MEN, admit their mistakes, they don't blame women for them. <p>I feel for what you are going through. And you sound like a wonderful person. I wish you future peace and happiness in your life.<p>Only Human<p>I don't think a WH should say great things about the OW, that would hurt too much. It would also be mean. But they don't have any excuse for blaming them either.<p>Years ago I was a BS. I remember the hurt to this day. I divorced him. (best single thing I have ever done). It took be about 6 months to realize it. I found out after we were divorced that she wasn't his first. He married his OW and they are still together. He never once blamed her. He was man enough to admit he had done wrong. I respect him for that. Not much else, but for that.

AMAZED,<p>I do believe that A Husband has said that what he did was wrong... both to his wife and to the OW. I also think that he feels remorse for what he did not his wife. <p>Perhaps he does not feel too much remorse for the OW because he was there and lived through it. Perhaps he knows more about the situation then any of us do.<p>As for the OW, we can only go on what he says here. She was far from a victim. She started the relationship by offering a roll in the back seat of a car. Hardly some poor thing. Perhaps he was used by her also, to boost her ego. Yes he lied to her to get what he wanted. But from what he said she also pulled a bate and switch with him. She started the relationship asking for nothing from him, then started to want more. So perhaps she was playing a game too... she was seeking 'comfort' where ever she could get it on any terms she could get it. Then, once she was in the affair, perhaps she started to express love for him as a way to make herself feel better about what she was doing.<p>The way I look at it, she knew he was married. She was married. Both he and she were using each other and probably lying. Why is he the bad guy and she is some poor woman being taken advantage of? Why is it that she cannot be a user also?<p>Reminds me of the kind of things my mom says... her great aunt had a affair with her H before being married (not acceptable in the 1930's). So my mom says that he made her have the affair. Poor woman was taken advantage of. Women are not poor children, they are adults who are responsible for their actions.<p>It is not unusual for a WS to end up not liking the OP. Perhaps a defense mehanism but not unusual.

ZOR,<p>He is trying to justify his actions via blaming the OW in my opinion. Let him make statements that take the blame. Full blame for his own actions. Hers cann't be discussed because you and I have no idea if he even half represented her correctly. The man is seeking sympathy. How much would he get if he said she was a 22 year old girl who was in love with him and didn't know he was married? My only point is, let him take responsiblity for his actions.<p>
"Perhaps he does not feel too much remorse for the OW because he was there and lived through it. Perhaps he knows more about the situation then any of us do."<p>And perhaps not. Perhaps he is slanting things so as to not look like the bad guy. We will never know.<p>As you can see, I have a problem with a person who does something wrong and then tries to justify it in some way. That is what he is doing. And if I were his wife, I would have a real problem with it. You see I know from experience, when I am truly sorry for something I have done, I only feel better when I come totally clean and take the responsibility that is mine to take.<p>"

Answer a few questioins:<p>STDS and do I talk about it with the guys I know.
I never have. I will if I get a chance. It's not like we talk about it like I do here. <p>Using the OW? I stated before, she and I both knew what the score was. We were both lying and both cheating. What did she/me expect would happen? It's not like we had a deep relationship. It was a mistake, poor judgement, total stupidity on my part, but the OW is not a consideration, never was, never will be. I'm sure she only saw me as an escape from her life too. She didn't even know me well enough to have any attachments. A few beers, a bite to eat and sex is not a life or relationship. She knew exactly what was going on and so did I.

Bernzini,<p>Thank you for sharing more of your experience. I totally understand the opportunity thing. Shortly after the wedding, my H turned into a different man. He had me now, so all romantic and affirming stuff stopped. I felt so unloved, and I just couldn't believe I felt so much more lonely than when I was single. I had moved to another state to be his wife so I had left everything behind.<p>I recognized within weeks my vulnerability to an A, and he must have too, because he's never let me work outside the home and has always reacted with displeasure when I try to pursue a social life. He wants all my time and attention spent on him. If any man paid any attention to me, even the most innocent, I would avoid him like the plague because even a simple compliment about something I cooked was like an oasis in the desert.<p>What enabled me to protect against my own weakness was that the thought of living the rest of my life knowing I had done the thing my ex-H had done to me was more awful than the thought of living the rest of my life without feeling loved.<p>We had talked extensively before we were married about our experiences as BSs in our previous Ms, and we both agreed that As were so unnecessary and that if we ever were that far gone, we'd just be up front about it and tell the other that it wasn't working anymore and just separate rather than do all that backstabbing stuff.<p>That's why it feels so much like he did this on purpose to hurt me. He knew I wouldn't have given him any problem if he wanted to be with her. I would have let him go without any ugly scenes or anything. And the fact that he refuses to eliminate everything to do with his A while claiming he's in love with me and regrets the A just doesn't add up. It's not like he's clueless--can't he remember how HE felt when his ex-W did it to him?<p>He seems to have no empathy whatsoever. It's like he has this need to rub my face in it over and over. He got laid off from that place nearly two months ago, yet he still keeps going there, and not only that, but he constantly wears items of clothing with that place's logo on them. Just shoving it in my face constantly. This behavior is just inexplicable to me. He even has me go to their website to print off his league sheet for him! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And it's not like I haven't demonstrated my loathing for that place. I told him the day after D-day that if he didn't get that hat (the latest thing with the logo) out of my sight I was going to set fire to it or put it in the shredder. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] I hate that particular hat the most because they made it with the American flag design on the heels of Sept. 11 to show how patriotic they are [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] --gag!<p>And quite appropriately that date will be memorialized for the rest of my life, and every single year I will be reminded that in a time of national crisis and being hit in the face with the fragility and uncertainty of life, he turned toward his OW instead of toward his family.<p>Maybe he thinks I'm over it now? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Got off on a rant again [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . I also wanted to empathize with you about the difficulties in maintaining your relationship with your children. Due to my ex-H's vendetta, my relatonships with most of my children from that M are very damaged, so I know how agonizing that is to love your children with everything in you and have someone constantly trying to break that bond.<p>In fact, that's probably why I'm still trying so hard in this M--because I don't want these children to be damaged the way my older ones were.<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SOW22MM:
<strong>
Just wanted to give you my personal experience w/ my MM as far as your question of STDS is concerned. First, I have never had any STD. Second, both MM I was involved w/ never once wanted to wear a condom. Initially, I made them. However, w/ time you get comfortable in the relationship and I no longer forced the issue. I can say that I am not intimate w/ anyone else besides my MM - my choice & his selfish requirement. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>A worldly wise male relative of mine told me that some women specifically choose to have Rs with MM because they are "safe" STD-wise, supposedly being monogamous with their W for a long time prior to the OW coming onto the scene, whereas single men may have multiple partners and therefore more of a risk.<p>On the STD issue from my point of view, a BS who was inflicted with an STD from my WS, this is one of the most damaging things about the A. He not only placed MY life in jeopardy, but also my nursing baby's life! I still have to go back for more HIV testing because apparently you have to have a series of negative results over a long time to be sure. It's like he held a gun to my and my baby's heads and played Russian Roulette with our lives. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sometimes I have to wonder why I don't just go down to the prison, wait for the next parolee to come out, invite him to commit his next violent crime on my person, and then invite him to be my life partner and spend the rest of my days Plan A-ing him. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Honestly, the only difference is the body versus the spirit.<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Conqueror,
I can honestly say that my MM's marital status had no influence in my choosing to become sexually involved w/ them. Our relationship began as any other and I became intimate because we both desired to. I choose not to be intimate w/ anyone else because MM meets my physical needs and I have never been one to sleep w/ two people at the same time. I have only visited this site for 3 days. I see a theme of Hs claiming to be drunk etc. at the time. Neither of my MM were ever drunk or even drinking prior to our being intimate. Both relationships started at work, began as a friendship, and evolved into more. Not saying this is everyone's experience, it was just mine.

A Husband,
I have a question. I am very uptight about expressing my emotions. I am also into radical honesty. I have always been honest w/ my MM. Both told me they loved me before i expressed the same to them. My MM tells me he loves me daily. I have told him so on maybe 5 occassions at best. I gave MM a brief recap of your post at work. I questioned him if he was being dishonest w/ me about his feelings. I explained it wouldn't matter either way as he is currently meeting some needs I have and I was going to continue in EMR regardless of his response. He swears he loves me. He claims me to coworkers etc. He calls, emails daily, and he meets all my needs for intimacy. So, why would he lie? If your OW was like me would you have told her you loved her, esp since she hadn't told you and made it plain it was not a requirement???

Conqueror,
I posted before I was finished. Just wanted to let you know I understand your anger, pain, and resentment. I guess men (regardless of marital status) just don't think. As I have stated neither asked me about prior sexual history, medical history, or biirth control. Sad, esp considering one night can result in conception that will take 24% of man's income to cover CS. Not to mention a lifetime of pain for all those involved. I am sorry you are going through this. Good luck to you and your baby.

OW<p>Why is someone like you posting here at a Marriagbuilders site? I find it truly bizarre unless you take some perverse pleasure in reading about the pain of all the betrayed spouses here?<p>But then I guess it should not be surprise that you are posting because you seem to take pride in the fact that you are sleeping with someone else husband

Zorweb,<p>I would have understood it if my H had had a reactive A while he was a BS in either of his previous Ms. Like you, I don't think I'll ever understand why he chose to wait and do it to me, the die-hard faithful one, instead. He specifically married me because of my "track record" of being faithful to one man for 17 years.<p>The only "explanation" I can come up with is yet another unexplainable phenomenon: Abused children who grow up to become abusers of THEIR innocent children. Never been able to figure that one out either. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It's good that your H seems to have developed some humility in the wake of his experience. Unfortunately, my H is still as arrogant and misogynistic as ever.<p>[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>