Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here- I believe that it is impossible to tell if a marriage can be improved upon when a third party is involved in it and even during the time afterwards when the WS is in emotional withdrawal from the OP. I believe that quite a few WS claim their marriage was 'over in their head' BEFORE getting involved with OP - yet this is a rationalization for why their A is okay to proceed with- most likely the marriage had problems but was not OVER beforehand or else the WS would have divorced their spouse before pursuing OP.An affair is an escape from the reality of choosing to deal with problems in their marriage. And these types of problems occur in just about all marriages- good ones and bad ones alike. We live in a society that not only allows one person to divorce another against their will, but encourages it! So why make it any EASIER by agreeing to it if you dont believe it is over and it is against your beliefs to just hand it to them? If a WS TRULY wants to be divorced no matter what they will do so no matter what the BS does.If that occurs obviously it is in the best interests of both to pursue an amicable divorce. But to pretend that OP is not contributing to the confusion of the WS is purely stupid. When I agreed to marry my H 15 yrs ago it was for better or worse till death do us part. No one forced us to say it. If I believed he didnt intend to honor his commitment I never would have brought 3 kids into this world with him. My H says our reconciliation is truly what he wants and that his A was a terrible mistake that he regrets deeply. We have been in counseling together for about a year and are making progress toward the problems that led up to the gap that led to H"s vulnerability toward pursuit from OW and his A.I dont HOLD him here against his will! In fact many times this year I have tested him to see if being with me again is truly what he wants! Apparently it IS! So I truly believe reconcilation IS possible even after an intense EA/PA has occurred. I now understand my H's needs way better than I had before. Hopefully this will lead to increased satisfaction for him in our marriage. Take care- lifeismessy

lim & snl,<p>Up until my W told me how unhappy she was 14 months ago, I really wasn't aware of any problems in our marriage. There was no ongoing conflict or constant arguing. We were trying to have a baby. Things were very loving, affectionate between us, although maybe a little stale or monotonous. I think that's quite common after five years of marriage. By the time she did tell me she was unhappy, OM was already in the picture to some degree, although I didn't know it until months later. I wonder how much he influenced her "unhappiness" in our marriage.<p>As far as pursuing my W, I really haven't done that. When she started talking about D, I was firm in telling her that that's not what I want and IMO not in the best interest of our family, but I also told her I understood she has to do what she thinks is best. I also didn't beat her over the head with questions about her relationship with OM, in fact I haven't mentioned his name in 6 months. I was tired of being lied to and saw no reason to get into a toe-to-toe with her about something she wasn't going to be honest with me about. I've pretty much left her alone to make whatever decisions she was going to on her own, and tried to take care of myself and our daughter as best I could.<p>Yes, I do want the truth. If my W were to tell me that she's in love with OM and is leaving me to be with him, I may very well just let her go. However, for someone who is so adamant about D, she sure isn't pursuing it very aggressively. She talked about it for 6 months before she filed, and it's been 3 months since she filed and not much has changed. We've severed the financial ties, at my request, but for the most part things are exactly the same as they've been for months. So, I question how much she really wants this. Maybe she's affraid of getting what she wants. Or maybe she thinks she's dug herself into such a deep hole, this is her only way out. I don't know. All I know is we'll never know if our marriage can recover as long as OM is still in the picture. It appears unlikely we'll get the chance to find out, and I can accept that, but that doesn't mean I have to give up just because she has. She may be grateful someday that I didn't give up, just as lim's husband is.
If we ever get the chance to "recover" our marriage with OM out of the picture, and we can't, at least we'll both be able to leave the marriage with a clear conscience. <p>sad dad<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

bump

lim, <p>Nothing new here. How's your wrist?<p>sad dad

Hi SD- That was so kind of you to inquire about my wrist. It is still sore when I type too much or lift anything but otherwise I'm on the mend. My lip has healed up great and my bruises and scrapes on my leg are in-process too. Yesterday my H and I got into an argument about our tight budget and my birthday which is coming up on Friday. I saw some flowers I want him to order for me and he got mad saying they were too expensive. He has really been feeling overburdened by the high overhead cost of 3 kids and our big mortgage. He gets to projecting the future costs in his mind too-ie.- girls weddings, college, cars, retirement etc etc!~ Then he REALLY gets to freaking out! I remind him I will be working by then too( I plan to go get my Masters degree in a few years from now) but that doesnt seem to register! this morning he has a job interview for a job in another dept of his company here- hopefully he will get that and get a raise! But it does involve more travelling so I couldnt get a part time job then. We shall see what happens! Take care- lifeismessy

lifeismessy said<p>I believe that quite a few WS claim their marriage was 'over in their head' BEFORE getting involved with OP - yet this is a rationalization for why their A is okay to proceed with- most likely the marriage had problems but was not OVER beforehand or else the WS would have divorced their spouse before pursuing OP.An affair is an escape from the reality of choosing to deal with problems in their marriage. <p>This is my story exactly. I've had 2 IM sessions with OM and he repeats this adnauseum to me. When I confronted WW about it, she said marriage was over in her head before A because she thought I didn't love her. But we never, ever mentioned D. In his e-mails, OM constantly tells WW that some people aren't meant to stay together, she is only doing what she knows she must, that marraige was over before he came along, etc.<p>At this point I will not agree to D amicably with my wife. If she were to file, to leave me for OM, I would make her wait full 18 mos and keep working the MB program. Either I will wait out the OM, the A will die a natural death, or the prayers of many faithful believers will turn my wife's heart around. If none of that happens, I will accept D, but I will never stop loving my wife (at least I say that now).<p>You see, even in the midst of my pain, I look into my wife's eyes and my heart leaps. I watch her when she is not aware, and my entire being aches to somehow make her know what I feel. To me, she is so deserving of every bit of love she has ever wanted, and I believe with all my heart that she will come out of the fog and realize that. <p>OM told me that I am addicted to my wife.
WW must have told him that I'm in recovery and he says I have replaced my drugs and alchohol addiction with my wife. (God, I wish there was justifiable homicide). But God has confirmed my feelings for my wife, and I believe I will love her forever.

Bump. Just want more insight on "the right way to divorce".

boppo,<p>IMO (and snl's I believe), the right way to D is with all your cards on the table. Hopefully, we all entered our marriages with honesty and openness. If it must end, it should end the same way. Problem is, they usually don't, and that's what leads to bitterness, resentment, misplaced guilt and pangs of conscience.<p>I have all but given up on my marriage. Right now I'll settle for the truth. Since my W is not forthcoming with it, I'm taking legal measures to get it. My daughter and I have to live with the choices my W has made. I need to know the truth for my own peace of mind and for closure.<p>sad dad