Honey, that's the thing about posting on a public forum. There are plenty of lurkers. You NEVER know who might be reading what you write. That's why I think it's really cool that sites like this are anonymous. They need to be for lots of reasons.<p>Be assured that OW read here. That doesn't mean that they're "out to get you". I was not. <p>Also, there are BS's who read/lurk on GB and other TOW sites. They are not all "out to get" the OW (necessarily).<p>People read/lurk here becasue they are curious. And rest assured there are things that you've posted that have helped people you've NEVER heard from on this board. I know it for a fact.<p>Lastly, I was reading a post on this board that i'm almost certain is my xMM. A few details are off, but it might be him. My picture is posted here and he's seen it. He's never said anything to me about it though so maybe not.<p>Who knows. I'm letting go and letting God.

While I was in the depths of discovery, I didn't know about this site. Luckily, I had a wonderful betrayed site to visit which helped validate my overwhelming emotions and had the wonderful support of a very remorseful H.<p>After traveling far on my personal healing path, I began "lurking" on TOW to get the "other side" of the reasons for choosing to be the OW/OM. Later, I began posting. I found that it really doesn't matter which type of board you find...if it offers you help in finding yourself, that is what matters. <p>While I can't say I agree with their choices, no one asked me to. I stay there because I have discovered that above all else, we are all imperfect. And while I may never make the same mistakes that they have made (jmho), I do make my very own mistakes. Causing those I love and those I don't even know heartbreak in along life's path. <p>Since finding this site, I have read most if not all of the articles. I love it. I wish I had explored this site long before when I could have used it's support. I've never before been on these message boards, as I still am connected to other betrayed spouse support sites, so just haven't had the need or really the time, but did feel as if I should explain those BS who do post on TOW without judgements. But this is a wonderful site and each and everyone of you are so lucky to have found it.<p>As for the problems that comes from cross posting or lurking then posting what is said on another board, those who stoop to this level, tend to take things out of context. On either board where this happens, you only see the "worst" that is posted and leaves each site poorer for what is not posted.<p>Yes, the internet is a wonderful tool, but it is very public. I've often wondered if our xOW was on a site that I posted on. It's possible. She could either be a "lurker" or an avid poster. If she is, she has deleted enough of the information that I would never know. But is it important enough to stop me from getting the real support that is offered here or anywhere else? No, it never was. If she wanted a "look" inside the very hard work of rebuilding a marriage after a betrayal...more power to her. <p>What happened recently when an OW and poster on TOW discovered that her x(?)MM was posting here? Both ended up running for the shadows and both lost the support needed for their individual situations. Both are in hiding. What good came out of any of it? Both deleting their own posts because "someone" from the other side might read them! What a sad state of "affairs". Both of them have their hands over their eyes, refusing to see or seek help. <p> I pray for them both; so they may come in out of the darkness and approach the light to find healing and comfort.

Hey JAW! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I saw your name under the "newest member" thing, and figured this was you. Glad I was right! <p>You know, that's what got ME about this latest hulabaloo! That now NONE of them are getting any support. I agreed that Marsha should have deleted her threads....mostly just because I would hate to think of the W's pain in reading what SHOULD have been told her by her husband!! But in the long run....it just resulted in everybody being alone again. I thought both of them sounded quite credible....and very much in pain. I almost wish they would change their nics, and maybe a few details (if that would make them feel safer), and try again. <p>Anyway.....Glad to see you! Don and I love this site, and employ the techniques every day, but I don't really post much as I don't think hearing about my........uhhhhhhhhh......past would help many people here.....would just make them worry needlessly. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Scarlet,<p>Hi, can tell that gloryb is down?lol.<p>Now Scarlet?. Let's see ?<p>'Be assured that OW read here. That doesn't mean that they're "out to get you". I was not. <p>Also, there are BS's who read/lurk on GB and other TOW sites. They are not all "out to get" the OW (necessarily)."<p>So why the need to qualify with 'necessarily'? A little biased there, eh?<p>Do remember that that this thread was not made to all OW's and TOW members visiting this site. It was directed to a small group who seemed to have invaded here over the last week. None of them were up to good. Marsha was not the only one. They know who they are. Just because a message was made to gloryb and TOW members.. it was not meant for all. But specifically for those who were basically attacking the MM's wife and/or using MB as place to send messages to each other. We have had this happen from time to time.<p>One case that happened months ago was really bad in that the OW was impersonating several people, to include her own husband to trash and harass the BS. The BS has had to change her name a few times because of this.<p>You know that you are always welcome here. So how's it going? We haven't heard from you in a while. How's that little boy of yours?<p>just a wifey and FinallyHappy,<p>You are both right that the sad part of this is that some people who need help are not getting it now. One thing people have to realize is that while these boards are anonymous, they are not a place to play with people either. When a person comes here (or to TOW) sure they can change their story some to keep from being recognize, but to flat out lie (as in "I threw the gift out") is an insult to those who are trying to help them. And then for people to use it to exchange info in a clandestine manner is pretty tacky too. It is wasting the money and purpose of the people who fund this board. And it is taking advantage of the kind hearted people who are trying to help here. <p>And to come here and use this forum to openly attack the BS, spouse of the MM/MW, is totally uncalled for. This is a form of stalking. You know, the WS and the OP have each other for support. So a BS comes here, sometimes as the only support system the have, and they are attacked here? Na, not acceptable.<p>I would love to see Marsha go back to TOW.<p>And to see Marshall and his wife posting here. But I am sure that Marshall's wife will never feel safe here again. I do not blame her. I know that at least three of my H's OW post here. They posted here when their H's were cheating on them. Though I think they stopped before I started posting. It scares me, at times, that some day one of them might use the things I've said here against me and my H. I believe that there is enough information out there in my posts that they could recognize us. And I am not sure many others, and I, would feel we could believe anything Marshall told us in the future. If Marsha and Marshall cannot come here or to TOW for support, well they did it to themselves.

I hope they find other sources of support.

Z
Of course i'm biased! That's no secret! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm fine. Things with SG and I are great. He's a wonderful human being, but the "us" thing is quite the challange for me.<p>I'm not over here much because i'm finding MB really quite depressing. When I was working through certain issues it was a Godsend. But now that things feel good it's a major bummer to read page after page of who did what to whom.<p>I check in here and there to see how folks are doing. But that's about it.<p>Since i'm not here very often I didn't know anything about OW causing trouble over here.<p>Hope all is well with you guys. I'll check in again later.<p>KS

Ok-here's another bit of truth<p>Additionally,
As the level of intimacy increases between SG and I I feel overwhelmed. Historically, that's when i'd find myself a nice troubeled MM to fall under. Some people drink, some people gamble, and I...well you know the rest.<p>I find myself attracted to certain married men posting here. So I keep myself away and focus on my relationship. (See, look at all of the good coping skills i've learned)

I was or am a OW who posts on GloryB. I come here occassionally seeking nothing but support. I have never flamed anyone, not here or the wives on GloryB. <p>I had started coming here a few months ago to get some help in breaking things off with MM...then a few days later there was so much OW bashing going on that I left. I no longer felt welcome.<p>I have managed to end things with MM but not due to any support from here. Pain is pain, and all parties in an emr hurt...I find it sad that you refuse to recognise this.<p>I guess blaming the OW is convenient, afterall, how do you repair your marriage if you blame the husband right...it is always the fault of the OW.<p>Wives are welcome at GloryB, and often offer the most help...too bad it doesn't work both ways.

There's that 'famous' ow expression again.<p>I guess blaming the OW is convenient, afterall, how do you repair your marriage if you blame the husband right...it is always the fault of the OW<p>The ow needs to share the blame! Just as much as MM...If ow knows the man IS married, just what the hell is she doing? Pretending that he is not married and that they are in love. That this love you want so bad, is all that matters. Too bad, for the WIFE, the ow had nothing to do with it. The ow is happy and satisfied, she thinks she has what she wants, so no blame for her.<p>
and,<p>Wives are welcome at GloryB, and often offer the most help...too bad it doesn't work both ways<p>This is baloney. I certainly don't expect you to agree or see it that way. Since you think that blaming the ow is a convenience.<p>ow are just as much to blame as MM. Not unless MM forces ow to participate when he feels the need. However, I have not seen that situation, ever.

Twilight<p>I guess you did not read this entire thread. It was started, not because of all gloryb members and/or OW/OP who post here. It is foolish to respond to a thread if you have not read the entire exchange. I will repeat, ONE MORE MORE TIME FOR THOSE OH SO SENSITIVE OW WHO ARE NOT CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING ENGLISH…. This thread was started to address a particular, small group of OW who were here to purposely cause harm. It was not posted to all OW/OP. <p>……”I have managed to end things with MM but not due to any support from here.”<p>
That makes sense because this forum is called Marriage Builders. It is solely for the husband and wife who are trying to save their marriage. <p>And tell me, if I went to gloryb to get help in saving my marriage and getting my WS to end his affair, just how much help do you think I would get? I'd get drummed off of gloryb.<p>It is not for the unmarried OP. So there is no reason you should have gotten support here.<p>And you will find that most BS are not interested in what makes the OP click… we already know what motives them… selfishness. The OP has no bearing on our marriages. It could be anyone, and in many many cases the WS have had so many OP, that why would any one of them matter?<p>……”Pain is pain, and all parties in an emr hurt...I find it sad that you refuse to recognise this.”<p>You are kidding right? The OP's pain is self inflected.. the BS had it forced upon with with no choice in the matter. If a person is committing armed robbery and shoots themselves in the foot.. well it’s a little hard to have sympathy for them. The pain an OP feels is of their own making. Pain of that type is a natural consequence of their error’d ways. Sorry but I, and many others have no sympathy for the OP.<p>….”I guess blaming the OW is convenient, afterall, how do you repair your marriage if you blame the husband right...it is always the fault of the OW.”<p>I think you totally miss the point almost everyone here comes from. The WS it totally responsible for their choise to have an affair. <p>And I can assure you that every BS is very angry at the WS for having taking this route. However, many OP actually harm and/or harass the BS in many ways. The OP is far from innocent in the affair and therefore is rightfully the recipient of anger and other feelings. If the BS of your MM is angry with you, or blames you, you earned that by doing her H.<p>……”Wives are welcome at GloryB, and often offer the most help...too bad it doesn't work both ways.”<p>Here we go again.. gloryb members love to make themselves seem to open to the BS. That is such a crock. Any BS who posts on gloryb has to walk on ice or be poofed. Sorry, I’ve been poofed for making most benign comments. And I’ve seen BS’s attacked for many reasons. A BS is ‘tolerated’ on gloryb as long as they are very careful to be politically correct from the OW’s point of view. <p>And then gloryb has at least one form that is strictly off limits to any BS “OW/OM ONLY”. If a BS posts on that forum, then they are poofed no matter what they say. So please…. Do not give us this bit about the ‘oh so open minded OW’. It’s a crock. <p>I keep in email exchange with some of the BS’s who post on gloryb. They tend to be frustrated with the fact that they cannot really say what they think. It is a hostile environment for BS on gloryb.<p>Patient1….<p>…..”The ow needs to share the blame! Just as much as MM...If ow knows the man IS married, just what the hell is she doing? Pretending that he is not married and that they are in love. That this love you want so bad, is all that matters. Too bad, for the WIFE, the ow had nothing to do with it. The ow is happy and satisfied, she thinks she has what she wants, so no blame for her.”<p>No, no you have it all wrong…. You see, I learned this on gloryb. The wife is a bi**ch who is forcing her H to stay in an unhappy marriage. She is driving the poor defenseless WS into the arms of the most extraordinary OW, who is nothing more then a victim in the entire thing. If only the BS would just drop dead, or somehow disappear then the WS and the OW, being the wonderful people they are could live happily ever after.<p>Of course it does not matter that the MM is going out of his way to hide the affair from his wife, telling her that he loves her and is happy with her. They have a marriage made in heaven. They have a wonderful, wild sex life. Somehow, it is all the BS’s fault that he is lying to her. And it is all the BS's fault that the OW is hurting.<p>Patient… did you learn that now…. Lol, I cannot stand it….. grrrrr<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

Yes, zorweb, that is correct. I was a bi*ch, our marriage was hell. What did I expect? I should have known there would have been someone to snap him up. Someone to meet all of his needs and make him happy all of the time.<p>But, I now realize after popping in on gloryb. I am no longer a bi*ch. I have graduated to a 'bitter bi*ch'. The ow have all the answers, in case you are ever wondering what happened in your marriage.

But Zorweb,
Tell us what you really think about all this...
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Rusty.....<p>Do you think I should say what I think? I'm so shy about it you know.... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Patient...<p>I've been reading over on gloryb, that's why I'm starting to understand, finally, what a wonderful people of all the OW in my life have been. Maybe we could start a study group.. do you think? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Sorry, I had to respond to this--<p>TOW. OK, you are telling me that I, as a wife of a man who had an affair, would find sympathy and support there? What could I tell them that would make them sympathize with me? That my husband used me a a convenient babysitter so that he could spend his weekends at Motel 6? That I stood by him while he built his career so that he when he became "The Man," he could start sampling the pleasures of his higher status? That I found a pair of OW's panties in my laundry hamper and actually believed his freaky wild tale about who's they were and what they were doing there?(boy, was I dumb!)<p>Yeah, that might score me some sympathy from anyone. Yep, I am married to a worthless vagabond that lies--a worthless vagabond that another woman struggled so hard to take away from me and his son because he was her "soulmate." So explain why, if he is such a loser, and she wanted my loser badly enough to destroy my family, why can't I blame her in the least?<p>An except from an IM from her to him, that I found: (oh, wicked woman that I am, spying on my husband's personal business! How dare I? I must be a sick, mentally disturbed person as Miss Kitty tells me I am!)<p>Her: Please, please, meet me at a hotel or restaurant tonight, please, I have to see you at least one more time. <p>Him: Well, I would like to. . .<p>Her: I will even bring (my pet chihuahua.) She can ride in my lap in the car.<p>Him: Okay. Okay. How about we meet at (Denney's) at about 9.<p>Her: Are you going to be loyal to your wife?<p>Him: What do you mean?<p>Her: Are you going to be loyal to your wife?<p>Him: What do you mean loyal?<p>(she asked him the same stupid question about three more times, he tapdances)<p>Finally, he says: Well, you know the trackrecord of my marriage, I guess we will see what happens<p>(Golly, I wonder what was wrong with my marriage. Hmmmmm. Could be a lack of commitment and honesty on someone's part, huh?)<p>In response to this, she writes: Tell me the truth, tell me straight up, or I am gonna b**ch slap you into next week!<p>Him, tell the truth? While she expects him to lie to me? Hmmmmm. Does she think she's special or something?<p>This is it, folks. It seems to me that a woman who is willing to sleep with a man that she knows is married is taking a gamble with the odds totally against her. Poor baby. I am crying buckets.<p>Pain is pain. Well, if you don't want to get hit by a truck, don't stand in the middle of the highway. If it seems that wives blame OW for their husband's adventure, who do the OW blame? Hmmmm? Let me guess.<p>When it's all over, and the man goes back to the marriage, all the sudden he's a user and a creep and a liar (which he may be, but duh. . .he's a married creep, that should have been a warning.)<p>I too, was an evil firebreathing monster, a mentally unstable monster, as depicted by OW. I had to be, or else why would this fine gentleman be screwing around behind my back?<p>Would I really shed any insite on the TOW board? Give me the link--guaranteed I'd get flamed the minute I showed up there.

Whoo hoo, Go Zorweb! 2 snaps up!!!! I used to lurk on that site. I had to delete it from my favorites because it was like a train wreck. I just couldn't help but look lol. The stories are all pretty much th same after awhile though. I did learn some fascinating things there though:<p>1. All wives are above all bitter, then also fat, ugly & lazy. This however only applies to wives who weren't their H's OW first. An OW who becomes a wife is never bitter and always very glamorous and perfect.
2. Wives only want their husbands money (which no OW have ANY interest in at all)
3. Most husbands were forced into marrying their wives and realized on their wedding day (if not before) that they were making a horrible mistake.
4. There has never been an OW in the history of the planet who has made the first move on a MM.
5. The MM usually only lies to the wife, most would never lie to the OW.
6. It is the wife's fault that the MM is having/had an affair. If the OW became the wife however the MM would never cheat on her.
7. Being married to a woman who wasn't your OW is generally a loveless legal contract. If you divorce your wife and marry your OW it is a glorious soulmate union and the heavens will open up and angels sing the day the MM/OW walk down the aisle.
8. Children would much prefer to see their cheating Dad/Mom "happy" with the OP than "going through the motions" in the marriage (which of course can never possible be repaired).
9. If an OC is born the OC as a result of the A then that OC should take precedence over all previous children born to the marriage.
10. MM only stay married because they are forced to by finances, kids etc. They NEVER stay married because they realize they love their
wife.
11. All MM continue to love their OW forever and ever and pine away for eternity.
12. No MM ever consider the A to have been a mistake.
13. Of the multitudes of OW who get pregnant by MM it was ALWAYS an "accident". After all, modern methods of birth control are usually only 99% effective if used correctly.
14. A marriage can never be good again after the H has had an affair. If the couple stays together they will live in tortuous misery (at least the MM will be miserable, the wife may be happy).
15. The statistics on the dismal longevity rates of relationship begun in affairs are completely fake and the result of a conspiracy (probably a conspiracy of bitter, fat wives lol).
16. Almost forgot my favorite one - The mark of a truly wonderful MM is that he abandons his family to be with the OW. This of course benefits everyone. Ex W is "free to find someone who truly loves her", kids are thrilled to see Dad "truly happy" with OW instead of Mom and MM and OW get top live their eternal bliss. Naturally the MM who chooses to stay with his family has no b***s and is a worthless piece of c***.<p>Fascinating and educational stuff. But we are the ones whose "heads are buried in the sand" lol.<p>[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: fairydust ]</p>

Good morning, and welcome to the ritual beating of a dead horse!!!!<p>No judgement, simply an observation.

Scarlett,<p>Good morning... and it's really no different then the ritual beating of a dead horse (the BS) that goes on in gloryb!!!! No judgement, simply an observation.<p>That is one of the major points here. <p>And do realize that this is in response to the last OW who posted on this thread.. not to ALL OP.<p>And the reason the same topics keep coming up is that the general population on MB changes almost daily... so almost any and everything discussed here has been discussed over and over again.<p>[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zorweb:
<strong>Good morning... and it's really no different then the ritual beating of a dead horse (the BS) that goes on in gloryb!!!! No judgement, simply an observation.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>True!<p>It's just as boring over here as it is over there. I guess that's why I quit posting on those (these) kinds of topics.

Scarlett....<p>..."It's just as boring over here as it is over there. "<p>lol... yep sure is

FAIRYDUST!<p>This is one of those rare MB moments when I actually laughed out loud! I have never visited the mentioned site (I personally have had more contact with OWs than I EVER wanted), but you described it just as I imagine it to be!<p>I am SO glad you haven't lost your sense of humor! THANK YOU!<p>Peppermint

Hmmm....<p>::emerges from peanut gallery::<p>I'm STILL waiting to hear about a place that's for recovering WS (that's isn't affair supporting -- Philanderers forum? NO THANKS!!). It would be nice to go someplace as a WS without having to listen to all the WS bashing. I know, I know...I'm not saying you aren't justified in your feelings towards them! I just get a little tired of hearing it...especially when the resident "lynch mob" (no names necessary...you know who you are (but not you Z!)) jumps in with their snide and negative comments and puts down any and every WS that posts and that isn't absolutely hating life and themselves. Is self-hate really the expected healthy LONG-TERM WS response? Is this really all you want from them? I hope not ::cringe::<p>Besides...not all WS's are your WS...some of us didn't require Plan A or need to be "investigated", etc...does that lessen my crime? Nope. Is it anyone's business but mine and my SO's one way or another? NOPE.<p>Just blow me off if you don't like what I'm saying , cause I tend to ramble anyway...just wanted to "vent" (love that term).<p>Okay that's all...<p>::returns to the peanut gallery::<p>[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>