lim,<p>Regarding Valentine's day, I suggest YOU plan something nice for the two of you. It's probably a big trigger for him too and he may feel nothing he can do will make up for last year. He'd be right. Make the plans yourself to take the pressure off him and make this Valentine's so special that THIS is the one you both remember years from now. Take care.<p>sad dad

lim,<p>W asked me again tonight if I contacted my lawyer about custody. I told her no. She seems eager for me to change my request to "joint" custody, but I'm not sure I should make that concession yet.
In the end, I won't get sole custody, but it seems I should hold onto that card as long as possible. <p>I'm getting together with my BIL this week to hear what he knows from "the other side". I'm curious to find out what W is telling her family. Nothing good I'm sure. I just hope they're not passing judgement on me hearing only one side of the story.<p>sad dad

Hi SD- Well its good to hear that your W is thinking alot about the custody issue FINALLY! By all means dont concede anything yet. Dont allow her to get you into an emotional brawl about it either- just be vague and tell her thats a legal matter for your attorneys to decide. After all that's why you pay them the big $$$! If your in-laws have been around the block any length of time they will realize that there are two sides to every marriage and it's not wise to make snap judgments. The older I get ( Yes I'm now 39 as my 4 yr old keeps reminding me!) the more I realize how life and relationship are not black and white but shades of grey.My BIL has been very supportive of me- he is an excellent listener- he is gay - in a long term relationship himself and owns a fancy hair salon and listens to women all day long so he is really good at that without making judgments. My H and I have been fighting the last few days about my overspending and how he is too controlling and how he doesnt share his feelings with me yet last night we had a great intimate night after the kids went to bed so go figure right? We are stuck in this- he is the controlling parent and I am the needy child type of power struggle- I am hoping our new counselor can help us with this when we go see her in two wks. Life is just so complicated isnt it??? lifesismessy

Where my H works, divorce papers are flying!!! Affair can have an affect on Court's decision. It did with my H's friend. Also, I was raised by my dad and things have come a long way. The saying goes, "Anyone can be a father. Not everyone can be a dad." Same goes with mothers. My mother wasn't and still isn't much of a mom to me. (She is to my brother, but not to me.) I know I would have to fight my H tooth and nail for my kids. We've talked some about it. He already knows though, that I won't give up, and since I'm homeschooling...well. Anyway, that's me. You're right to not give up. You're right that the best thing is for you to stay together and work on the family. If she'd be willing that is. She doesn't have your dd's best interest in her mind if she treats her dd's father like dirt. And yes, she could lose BIG!!!

lim,<p>Ahhh, the magic age of 39. You can stay 39 forever. Next year won't be your 40th b-day, it will be the first anniversary of your 39th! <p>Sure, you and your H still have issues, but at least you know what they are and he is willing to address them. That's half the battle.<p>My in-laws have been around the block and I'm sure they know they are only hearing one side of it. I'm just curious to hear what my BIL has to say. It will give me a better indication of my W's mindset.<p>hoping,<p>Times are changing regarding fathers and custody. When my daughter was born, I made a conscious decision to be a "complete" parent and not just fill the traditional roles of a father. I never realized how prudent that decision was until now.<p>If I fight for custody and lose or don't fight at all, the results are the same for me either way. I really have nothing to lose. My W may realize there's a price to pay for her "freedom". It's been her choice all along, and that choice comes with consequences. It didn't have to be this way.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

W called on her way home from work (she was at junior achievement w/OM). She asked to speak to our daughter, told her to have daddy keep her up until mommy got home. When she got home, I could tell she was in a bad mood. She put our daughter to bed and layed with her until she fell asleep. I was paying bills and she came downstairs and layed on the couch. She barely said two words to me and just fell asleep, much earlier than usual. Trouble in paradise? Who knows? <p>sad dad

HI SD- It DOES sound like there might be trouble in 'paradise.' It cant be a 24/7 fantasyland trip there all the time now can it? Its best if you dont inquire into the specifics though I know youre DYING To know what's up. Your patience may pay off in the long run dont you think? You sound like a such a quality dad and father. It would be her loss to leave you I am sure! I believe it takes a certain type of moral commitment to try to wait these affairs out. Not everyone is cut out for the job. I think quite a few WSs eventually end things with OP and then there is no marriage to go back TO. Its sad for the childrens sakes. I had my 3 children with the intention of raising them in a 2 -parent home and that really helped me last things out. Take care- lifeismessy

lim, <p>Thank you for the kind words. Not to toot my own horn, but I am a damn good father. I know what you mean about a moral commitment. As difficult and painful as this whole ordeal has been, it will be worth it if somehow I can keep my daughter's family together. No amount of pain I suffer is too great if it saves my daughter a minute of unhappiness. That may sound corny, but D is going to affect her far more in the long run than it will affect my W or I.<p>sad dad

sad dad:<p>I admire your strength. After snooping it is so hard not to present my evidence to try and bring things out in the open. I don't know how you managed to keep it all in so well. Steve says I need more information so I need to keep it up. I wonder if the WS will ever appreciate the lengths that we go through to keep our family together. I guess maybe not. Thanks would be having the kids get through all of this as best possible without knowing about all of the background information.<p>HoFS

hfs,<p>For the first 3 months after d-day, I would occassionally bring up OM and confront W with proof, but she never admitted anything and always had a way to refute what I knew was true. I realized I could drive myself crazy trying to get her to admit anything, and learned thru MB that bringing up OM was pointless. I was tired of being lied to, so I stopped bringing it up. No proof I could offer nor anything I could say would make a difference. Her EA had a life of it's own and only she or OM could do anything about it. I'm all for snooping, but not for the purpose of unloading the info on the WS. Believe me it doesn't work. But that info is knowledge. Keep it to yourself. It let's you know where you stand, and in my case it could be a factor in custody. <p>sad dad

lim,<p>My W and DD had an appt last night to get their haircut. W called me at work yesterday to ask if I wanted her to pick up our DD up from daycare on her way to getting their haircut. I told her I'd pick her up. It was a very strange phone call.
I always pick my DD up from daycare at around 3:45, my W doesn't get home from work until 5:15, and their appt was at 6:30. Why would I want to leave my DD in daycare for 1-1/2 hrs longer when she could be home with me. Makes no sense. Seems like she needed a reason to call.<p>As is turns out, my W came home about 4:30. I asked why she was home early, and she said "because I felt like leaving work early", very snotty. Then she said "I don't know why you're taking DD to the museum on Saturday, you know she's too young for that". I said I thought it'd be interesting for her (ya know, there's not much to do in winter in Chicago). I just let it roll off my back. She's angry about something and taking it out on me. I find out later that she's not going to work today, she just doesn't feel like it. It does appear there's trouble brewing in paradise. I'll just mind my own business.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

Well I will venture a guess and say that OM is being too demanding for her taste.Of course who gets the anger fall-out? You of course. Be sure NOT to ask about it. I think its a GREAT idea you're taking dd to a museum- I think the arts are SO important! One time in counseling a few months ago we spent the whole session arguing over whether to send back a Chagall print I ordered from a catalogue. My H insisted the frame was chipped ( SOOO minor!) and I pointed out that he was so hung up on noticing the frame that he didnt even APPRECIATE the artwork itself because he couldn't recall any of the details of the picture.My H works in the shipping biz so he said even if I asked them to send another one it would still be damaged by the UPS rough handling. In the end I ended up sending it back because every time I saw it it reminded me of our fight. $100 for the picture itself, $100 to argue about it an entire session at counseling, $75 to return it as it was oversized and had to have "Special' shipping! One more reason my credit card bill is so high! From now on we'll just go to a museum- its way cheaper! lifeismessyPS My H grew up in a small town as a farmboy- he is NOT art appreciative!!!!!

lim, <p>I was raised in Chicago, but I'm not an art lover either. We're going to the Museum of Natural History. The only art I appreciate are the finger paintings and crafts my daughter brings home from daycare. Didn't mean to disappoint ya!<p>sad dad

lim,<p>I went out with my BIL last night and caught him up on things and found out some things. As you may recall, when my W got notice that I counterfiled and am fighting for custody, she called her mother and asked her to call everyone in the family and tell them not to talk to me. My BIL said my MIL refused to do that. He also said that other than his W, he's not sure if anyone knows I counterfiled on the grounds of adultery, he'll find out. I wouldn't be surprised if my W kept quiet about that as it would send up some red flags.<p>I told him that I hope everyone knows I wouldn't be doing what I am without good cause and that I hope they reserve judgement on me w/o knowing both sides of the story. He assured me that no one is judging me and they know I have every right to fight for custody. That gave me some peace. For the most part, they're trying to stay out of it, which is probably wise.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

bump

Hi, SD,
I haven't posted to you much, b/c our stories aren't all that similar, with the exception of our timelines, which are exactly the same. Therefore, your description of apparent "trouble in paradise" gives me some hope!<p>I have a friend who believes in a "9-month" theory. It takes a woman 9 months to birth a baby, and so humans are on a 9-month "cycle" so to speak.....A's usually come to a fullness, a "make or break" point at 9 months, according to her theory. Well, I don't know if there's any merit to this or not, but she IS a "behavior analyst" so maybe she does know something I don't! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>In any event, the reason I'm posting to your thread is to ask what you think of THIS theory (I'm full of them ) and have been told THAT more than once! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I have counter-filed my H on some issues in our D papers as well (NOT child-custody, or adultery, just money issues) just as a way of stalling things. However, it IS obvious that D in general is adversial at its best.....so....what do you think: Is this something that is likely to make H more angry, determined to LEAVE and get the D, more detached, or won't it matter anyway? Did it seem that your WW became more angry with you, and determined to do this after she found out you had counter-filed? I'm sorry, you probably wrote if she did or not, but I just don't remember right now, and it's too early to figure out where to hunt for that info!<p>I can't really decide which way I believe. I have NO contact w/WH, zero. So it's impossible to get a "read" for how this is affecting him, except that it IS continuing on its way through the court system in all its inevitability. I wonder if sometimes the WS just continues the process simply becasue they are angry that you would fight them, or to NOT feel as though they are being "railroaded" by the BS (I know, FOG TALKING). <p>Thanks for your thoughts!<p>God Bless,

You are so right in wanting to have your daughter with you too. She needs both of you with equal amount of time. Yes, the divorce will hurt a child, it hurts all kids all ages. Seems to be a control issue here. Write it on paper on what you would like to see happen. Since she is the one for divorce, she is in the fog it seems, let her write the conditions out thoroughly. Then you write yours down, and you two go through the issues one by one. <p>Sounds like a mediator is going to be needed, but you know sometimes this can work both ways. <p>Yes, divorce is going to be hard. I know, I am starting in the path now. My H doesn't want this marriage, has never wanted this marriage, and will not commit to this marriage counseling with the Harleys. Things have to be his way, and no other way. Food for thought, as long as they want it their way, they are still in whatever you call it FOG or whatever. They are in their selfish mode, me, me, me, me, me!!!!!!<p>I hear it all the time, what about my feelings, what about how I want things, etc. etc. Good luck, keep your daughter with you, sounds like you two (daughter and you) have a good relationship, and she will admire you in the coming years for keeping her in your heart. You sound like a good father, a devoted father, one who cares about family, one who cares about love, one who cares about keeping family together.

lupolady,<p>I don't know about the nine month theory, and I'm not sure if there is trouble in paradise. Something obviously had my W upset, but I know it's not anything I've done in the past week or so. Our situations are quite different. Your H may be angry that you are stalling things, but so what. It was his decision, but that doesn't mean it has to happen by his timeline or on his terms. By all means, do what you feel is right for you. <p>In my case, I counter filed because I need to know the truth and it gives me some legal options to get it. I'm fighting for custody for obvious reasons. I love my daughter, I'm a terrific father and I think she'll be equally happy (or unhappy depending on how D affects her) with either of us. I don't know if my W is more determined regarding D or not, but she is angry because it's not going as she planned and I think she's really scared because she's finally seeing there are consequences for her actions. I can't worry about that. This is not what I ever wanted, but since it's happening I'm doing what I feel is best for me and my daughter. <p>thinker,<p>I'm sorry things haven't worked out better for you and snl. WS's can be very selfish and seem to have unrealistic expectations that things should work out on their terms. That can only happen if the BS lets themselves be walked all over. I think the WS's have had so much control for such a long time that they get upset when the BS's show some spine and begin to take some control back. At least that appears to be the case in my situation. Good luck to both of you.<p>lim, <p>I never did end up going to the museum yesterday. My daughter told me she didn't want to go. My W may have had some influence in that. Anyway, I had bowling last night and when I got home, I found some more empty beer bottles in the trash.
W's drinking alone again. Hmmm? <p>As I was typing this, the phone rang. It was some guy asking for my W. I said she wasn't home and asked who was calling. He said "John" and he'd try her later. It could have been OM, but that's not his name. I didn't recognize the voice and the only "John" I'm aware of that my W knows is me. I won't be giving her the message.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

just bumpin'

Hi SD- do you have caller ID on your phone? Can you call back that number of the guy who called for your W? Did you mention the phone call to her? You also must be wondering why she has been drinking so much lately. Has she ever had a tendency to drink too much? Could be the guilt/anger and custody battle is starting to wear on her more now. Keep posting and letting me know how things are going. Take care- lifeismessy