lim,<p>Actually, the guy called twice, once early last week and yesterday. The first time he called, he just said "Is W home? I said she wasn't home and he hung up. I checked caller ID, and it registered "private" or "out of state". That's common for solicitor calls or anyone who doesn't want you to know who they are. You can't *69 those calls. If it was a solicitor, he probably would have said "May I speak to so and so" and butchered the last name like they always do. <p>Yesterday I was online when he called, so caller ID didn't register. He asked for her that same way, but I made a point of asking who was calling. Funny he would use my name. I'm sure he's smart enough to use *67. It is pretty daring on his part, but also not very smart with an adultery charge and custody battle on the table.
I didn't mention it to my W, but I think I will. Not in an accusatory way, just matter of factly. If it was OM, it may be a big LB on his part.
Both times he called were times when he would have known W wasn't home. Maybe he was checking if I still lived here. Who knows what she's told him. But, I may be jumping to conclusions.<p>My W drinks when she's out, but very seldom at home, and never alone. This is very out of character for her, but then again I can only imagine what's going on in her head.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

bump

lim,<p>The phone rang tonight and my W answered it. I heard her say "she's not home" and hung up. Typical response to a solicitor. I figured this was a good time to bring up the phone call from Sunday. I said, "that reminds me, some guy named John called for you the other day when you were out with DD, he didn't leave a message". She said she doesn't know anyone named John. I suggested it was probably a solicitor. She said she's sure it was. She didn't seem surprised, more defensive, very quick with her response, almost as if she had it ready.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

lim,<p>Did you make make plans for Valentine's day? I hope you create some memories today that help you forget last year.<p>sad dad

Hi SD- my d-day first anniversary here is going better than I had expected. Last night I was teaching my usual preschool class at church as it is our weekly family night there. My H surprised me by showing up for the potluck dinner and short church service afterward. During dinner our pastor asked H to assist him during the service and eplained to him how he could help. H agreed and it turned out that H's job was to collect the small pieces of paper that people wrote what they 'needed help from God with' for the next 40 days until Easter. Then H's job was to collect them and put them all in a large metal bowl and burn them until they were ashes. Then the pastor used the ashes to mark our foreheads. I was amazed H agreed to do this since we went to our pastor for counseling last year at this time and that was when H refused to give up his A and even told our pastor that. Plus many people at church know our situation as it is a small town and word gets around. So I thought he had guts to go up there! What do you think? About your W's phone call she answered- maybe she is trying to break it off with OM and is weak and goes back to him. I know my H did that many times and it amazed me because he is usually strong minded when he makes decisions and doesnt back down. OW knew JUST how to pressure him to get her own way. Eventually though he got tired of it. Are you giving your W anything for V-day today? I was going to give my H a paper heart with tissue paper pieces torn up and glued on it to express how much he has broken my heart this past year. But after last night I have changed my mind and will rubber stamp him a home-made card instead and I'm making his fave dinner- chicken enchiladas. lifeismessy

lim,<p>I think it says alot about your H's character to be able to stand up in front of your pastor and parishoners and be an active part of church. Kudos to him!<p>The phone call my W got could have been from a solicitor. We get alot of them and she usually checks caller ID and let's it ring. Her response was not unusual. I checked the caller ID on and it came up "private". We get alot of calls that register as "private" or "out of area". The first phone call I got last week also registered
"private". A friend told me that "private" calls are blocked by the caller, whether it is a solicitor or someone else, who knows. When I told her about the call from "John" on Sunday, she didn't seem puzzled or surprised, in fact rather quick to diffuse the situation by telling me she didn't know anyone named John.<p>I left a Valentine's card for W from my daughter on the kitchen table this morning. She did the same for me. Nothing from me though.<p>This is the most bizarre D I could imagine. She files on the grounds of mental cruelty. I file on the grounds of adultery/mental cruelty. We are fighting for custody, but we are still living together, eating dinner together, watching TV together. She's taking no action as far as closing bank accounts, cancelling credit cards, selling the house, making future living arrangements, etc. Very odd!<p>sad dad<p>[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

she's waiting sd.

snl,<p>I'm very disapponted in you. A four page thread and you give me a three word response. I'm used to a 300 word minimum from you. Everything OK?
Just kidding of course.<p>In response to your reply, my question is, WHY?<p>sad dad

Why? She likely does not want the divorce. Perhaps she filed as a means to test you or to hurt you. Perhaps she thought it she filed, you would over-react and, get mad, and want the divorce -- making it easier for her to leave.<p>The fact that you don't want the divorce and STILL want the marriage, even after her behavior, has to be very confusing to her. My WW tried to get me to fall out of love with her and it did not work. She did that so I would end things and so that she would feel less guilt. It is the chicken way out. Perhaps you WW is doing the same.

longing,<p>I'd like to believe that she really doesn't want this D, her actions (or lack therof) are confusing, but I've got to be realistic. I accept that this is happening, however I don't have to believe our marriage is hopeless just because my W says it is. One difference between you and I is that although I still love my W, I'm no longer in love with her. Doesn't mean I can't be again someday.<p>sad dad

she could be waiting for a few things, I have not a lot to go on so take this with a grain of salt.<p>1. She is contemplating what to do about your resistance (and countersuit) to the divorce.<p>2. She is struggling with the realization she needs to consider the divorce and the om as two separate issues, meaning would she still divorce if the om never existed.<p>3. She is watching you....very very closely.<p>4. She is wondering if she has the guts to go through with this.<p>She is waiting for the answers to these questions, and when she has them she will act...one way or another.

snl,<p>5. She may also be wondering if OM/divorce is worth the risk of losing custody of her daughter, and if her actions this past year can come back to hurt her in that regard<p>IMO, I think she went into this thinking custody was a forgone conclusion, re: she would get custody because she's the mother. In retrospect, (and maybe after discussing this with her lawyer)I think she's realizing that as parents we are as equal as can be and in spite of my shortcomings as a "husband", I've done nothing as a "parent" to hurt my chances for custody. She has and that's a bitter pill to swallow. But, she made her bed.....please excuse the pun.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

lim,<p>How was Valentine's day? Hope everything went great!<p>Well, after a hiatus for several days, W's bad mood returned last night. I didn't ask about it, just kept the conversation to a minimum. I made chicken gorditas for dinner, but she didn't want to eat. She took our daughter shopping, then came home with McDonalds. Go figure!<p>What do you think of snl's analysis of the situation?<p>sad dad

your 5 was part of my #1. I'd like to think she had/has every intention of making sure your D was fully parented by you both, but she probably never really thought about not being the custodial parent. It is also possible she is now thinking about how it would be if you were the custodial parent (by all accounts, you seem to be an excellent prospect for a custodial dad). And is contemplating whether she might be ok with that, but feels guilty even thinking of it (hence the beers). On the other hand she knows she will most likely get custody but at the cost of exposing the afffair. She is weighing all this stuff, and maybe (hopefully) thinking staying for now is an option...not out of in-love, but as a pragmatic solution till daughter is older...hence the bad moods. Weaveing its way all through this is the om. She has most likely moved from the intial phase of attraction/interest/pursuit to the take stock phase....is he really worthy, and she is contemplating that some, but if he is, she is worried she will lost her "opportunity". This is a highly vexing problem for ws's. What one (a ws) has to realize, and to often does not, is that they cannot make a marital decision based on the op....further, that if the op even makes such a demand (to choose), they are not worthy of friendship, and if not worthy of friendship, clearly not worthy of marriage (they are a player, not a potential partner). <p>At this point the om should have left the affair, set your w free to do what she must (and he in his life), and the future will be what it will be. Maybe he did, maybe your w is the one who won't let go, wants to be rescued, or is the pursuer,<p>Do you know anything about the om? I would strongly suggest you do as much of a background check as possible....not about affair stuff so much, as about him. Who is this man, what kind of person is he, what kind of history does he have, financial, criminal, relationships, jobs, everything. I know your one attempt kinda backfired, but this isn't following around stuff so much as it is reasearch. What would be terrific though is to find out he is seeing ow besides your w.<p>I hope I am wrong sd, but I don't think your wife is having any 2nd thoughts about wanting you as an intimate life partner, they are more about how to proceed, maybe some concerns about om, but mostly trying to unravel the mess she has found herself in, and get on with her life. So continue what you are doing, plan a, but sorta disconnecting, being strong about fighting the good fight (for daughter, no one can knock you for that), and giving her space to decide what she wants to do. Don't let her bait you into a lb session, but acknowledge you can accept the marriage ending, you just want it done so in a fair equitable way, and hope she does too, if she does not want to try reconcilliation instead. Anything is still possible, the difficulty is she won't talk. I am just as difficult as your wife, the difference is I think it only fair to talk, to say where my head/heart is...this is very tough stuff for my w, and I get blasted alot for it (with a fair amount of blasting assistance from many posters), but I am being honest, so there is little doubt where I am coming from. If for some reason your wife will start talking, you must make it absolutely clear you will not lb, or share it with anyone you both know, and will not pass judgement on her. In fact, at this point I would write her a short letter asking her to talk with you, not about om per se, but about her, her hopes, drerams, fears and concerns, at this point. Promising her (and boy are you DONE if you violate this), you will say absolutely nothing to her, or anyone else about these things. If she does, she won't say all at first, she will test you awhile, and she won't say exactly, she will shade stuff to gauge your reaction. Just LISTEN, no matter how much it hurts (if it does). I think she might be ready to do this, if you set the stage right, and can sincerely convince her she is safe (which won't be easy), and can get her to see this would be helpful for your well-being too, and really costs her nothing but taking some risk in being open....she might talk....I can't emphasize to much though sd, bs usually blow this, they can't see past their own noses, and they lb, they argue, or get angry, or get weepy, or righteous, or a million things...then they try to fix it, and persuade, and manipulate, and coerce...DON'T do anything, or she will probably never talk to you again. Bs talk about letting go, but mostly it is just talk, few of you really do, you try to get us back, and we hate it, it makes us feel like property...because we are property, if you want us back cause of what we do for you, if you can't let us go amicably and in friendship, you don't love us, it is that simple, you just want your own selfish stuff, just like you accuse us of. If you do this right sd, you will be rewarded with a view into your w soul, and in it's own way will contribute to your relationship, cause she will see you are worthy of trust, something she does not believe anymore.<p>
Good luck.

snl,<p>That's more like what I expect from you. Alot to think about. I have to admit, in my heart I truly believe she is done, regardless of OM. He just clouded the issue. Right now her only concern is how she can get out of this unscathed, with her reputation in tact and custody of her daughter. I think she's realizing there's a strong possibility that won't happen and she doesn't know how to deal with it. The consequences of her actions are coming back to bite her. I wish I could help her, but I can't.<p>I'm still puzzled that she isn't pressuring me to sell the house. You'd think there'd be a sense of urgency on her part to do that, whether to be with OM or just to be away from me. <p>As far as me, whether I wanted this D or not, I'd still handle this the way I am. I need to know the truth, and counterfiling is my best chance to get it. As far as custody, I would fight for it regardless of the reason for the D, even if I wanted it, even if I was having the A.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

sad dad-<p>Have you ever shown your W any of the evidence you collected about the A? If not, why? Did you ever get any real hard evidence like letters or phone conversations or was it just circumstantial? Did Steve ever come to a point of asking you to present this evidence to your W? I thought you were counseling with him at one time.<p>I'm in a situation where W has denied an A while in fact, she is in the middle of one (the second in 18 months) and has already been very personal (EA?) with a third. I've collected the evidence but I'm not really sure what to do next. You said that you were never ready to Plan B because of your daughter. Is she what helped keep your resolve not to move to Plan B? Did Steve Harley ever advise you of this? I've also got the issue of my W hiding money from me to help OM2. Not hundreds of dollars but $20 or $30 dollars at a time. Bummer.<p>Best to you with your efforts. You've come a lot since early last summer.<p>HoFS

Hi SD- Well I see SNL has written a novel to you in his USUAL style!!!!! Actually I agree with his suggestion to check out OM as much as possible. Didnt you say he was in the process of getting divorced himself? How far along is that do you know? I strongly suspect that there is pressure in (paradise) from one side or the other. Which side do you think it is coming from? I think the break I finally got was when OW upped the pressure to a degree that finally made my H really uncomfortable. He was willing to leave me, divorce me and be with her he said but a LONG TERM commitment to her- he wasnt sure. That freaked her out and upped the pressure on H some more. Has your W said ANYTHING about plans to marry OM eventually or his intent to marry her? Or live together? What do you think their plans are? lifeismessy PS My Valentines day went OK- I went to a lunchtime Bible study and started crying when they asked for prayer requests for the week. But I managed the best I could the rest of the day. This morning I went into my dentist to get my first crown done- OUCH! Glad that is done with!

HotFenceSitter,<p>My W knows most of my evidence, including tapes of a phone conversation in which she told OM she was in love with him. She claims she said that because she knew I was recording her and wanted to hurt me. There were voice mails that OM left for my W, phone records that show 99 calls from our house to her voice mail at work in a 2 month span, etc. I have alot more, but I can't go into at this time. My lawyer has subpeonaed her cell phone record as wells as OM's cell and home phone records. I should have them soon and they should tell me where things stand between them.<p>I need to correct you on something, I am more than ready to go to plan B, but cannot since we are still living together and I cannot move out due to the impending custody battle. I am probably well past the point that most BS's go to plan B and I have very little love left for my W.
I had the choice of leaving and going to plan B (which would have jeopardized my custody chances) or sticking around and fighting for custody. I
chose the latter.<p>lim,<p>I could check the local divorce records, I'm pretty sure he's divorced by now. She may be getting pressured by OM, that could be the reason for her moodiness lately. It may just the pressure of possibly being deposed, having the A exposed and the possibility of losing custody. She may be wondering if OM/divorce are worth the risk.<p>My W has denied OM was anymore than a friend. For a few months after d-day, I would occasionally confront her with proof, but that proved futile. She asked me in August why I thought things would change. I said they won't as long as she is still in contact with OM. She said she didn't talk to him anymore. This was 3 days after I heard a voice mail from him saying "I got your message. I hope you didn't call from home, <H> may still have that thing (recorder) on. We have to be careful not to jeopardize things at this point".
It was after this that I decided I wasn't going to mention OM or A anymore. I was tired of being lied to.<p>I have no idea what her plans are, but living with him will not be a possibility, not if she has custody of our daughter. I already discussed it with my lawyer. Regardless, I don't think there's much hope for them. When her family knows the truth, I don't think their relationship can withstand the scorn from them. My BIL's have already told me they will have nothing to do with him.<p>sad dad<p>[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]<p>[ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

bump

HI SD- I am glad to hear you have morally decent in-laws who wont rush to greet OM as your replacement! I am sure your W figures that they wont accept him so that's why she keeps him secret from them. Your W is really getting to the point where the rubber meets the road so to speak ) I live near Akron the rubber CAPITAL of the nation so I can say that!) Surely she is going over and over in her mind what the possible outcomes are of her actions. Up till now she has probably just thought about it occassionally= not so often. Are you in counseling by yourself still? I hope you have a good counselor lined up in case she suddenly snaps out of all this and needs couseling right away. My H needed counseling to get the courage just to end it once and for all with OW. Hang in there- lifeismessy