How should I deal with the subject of OM when it comes up in discussions with W? I'm really unsure how to handle it in a way that's best for her. Let me explain...<p>It seems that she is becoming more comfortable talking to me about him and their relationship. I know better than to bring up the subject myself, but I have encouraged her to talk to me about whatever is bothering her. Over the past couple of days, she has mentioned him in our conversations. I feel that I might be the only person she can talk to about him right now-- none of her family knows about the A, and many of her friends that do know have stopped talking to her. In the interest of her mental/emotional health, I'm trying to be a good listener.<p>I've tried to imagine that instead of my W, it's one of my male friends who is in desperate need of help and support. I try to reason through the way I'd respond to help him. This helps me ignore my M, and act as a true friend to W.<p>Here's the dilemma: if one of my male friends were in W's situation, I'd advise him to RUN-- NOT WALK-- away from the A, and never talk to the OP again. I've tried really hard to be objective here, and I really feel that the relationship with OM is unhealthy for W, and always will be. But I don't feel like I can tell her that, or she'll feel that I'm being self-serving and trying to get her back. I'm not sure she'd accept anything I had to say that questioned the value of OM or her relationship with him.<p>Should I avoid giving her any advice on the subject of the A? If so, how should I respond if she asks for my advice?<p>Have any of you ever been in the position of having your WS vent to you about the OP and the A? How did you support your WS? Were you at all judgmental? If so, how did your WS respond?<p>I thank you all in advance for your advice and support.<p>BP

Hey BP I'm glad to hear that your W's A is self destructing and that she has lost the support of everybody else except you.<p>But I would caution you into rushing things with her. She is still very much susceptible to relapsing and going back to OM if and when he decides to start courting her. Don't let your emotional guard down for a minute because you will find yourself in the emotional 'rollercoaster' that will eventually leave you emotionally empty. She is grieving the loss of OM that should tell you that your W is nowhere near to recommit to the M. She still needs to go thru a withdrawl period before any recovery can occur.<p>If you still love her and want to stay married to her then continue to win her back by being a good friend and listener. But if you feel that you can't trust her and that you have no more love to give then continue with your divorce. The choice is yours.<p>Joe<p>Joe<p>[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

When she wants to talk about him, your response to everything she says should be "hmmmmm." Or "uh-huh." This is how women let other women know that we're listening and they can keep talking as long as they like. If she asks you for an opinion, play psychiatirst-- say "Well, what do you think that means?" Then when she tells you, you say "hmmmmmm."<p>Is she really, really pushes you, you say "I care too much about you to be objective. I hate to see you hurting. What do you think/want/feel?"<p>In other words, just be there, fight the male urge to solve every problem that anyone brings up, and turn on the empathy.

Joe and Charynne, thank you for your advice. I'm going to be the best listener that I can, and avoid offering any judgements about OM to my W. She needs to figure out for herself what kind of person he is.<p>I'd like to share with you my experience of yesterday, since I'm still a little freaked out by it. I think I will feel better after writing about it.<p>I was very surprised yesterday afternoon to get a phone call from OM's W. I had spoke with her a few times last August after her D-day (a few weeks after my own D-day). This was the first time I'd heard from her since then. She called to offer her support and ask how I was doing and how my W was doing. She said she's no longer angry at my W, and she mainly just feels really sorry for her. She knows that I've been trying to lend my support, and she wondered if it was taking its toll on me emotionally. She told me to let her know if there's anything she can do to help. I really appreciated it, and I just might call her if I ever need anyone to talk to.<p>I decided I would tell W about the conversation with OM's W. I want W to feel like she can trust me, and I figured there was a chance that she'd find out about the conversation from OM. I decided I'd rather tell her myself, so I did when she called later yesterday afternoon. She wasn't thrilled to know that I'd even had the conversation. However, she became very upset when I told her that OM's W knew about last weekend's events. Apparently OM had promised her that he would not tell his W about my W's suicide attempt. W was very upset about having been lied to (again) by OM.<p>I say, way to go OM! I've given you plenty of rope, and you're doing the best you can to hang yourself!<p>The thing that hurts is that W still wants to be with him. Sometimes it's hard not to think that I must have been a TERRIBLE husband for her to still prefer him to me. She's sacrificed most of her friends, closeness with her family, her church, and her financial stability-- all for a relationship with a man that cheats on her and lies to her repeatedly.<p>All I can do is keep telling myself that it's the fog, and she has subconsciously rewritten the history of our M. She needs to see me as a horrible H just to deal with her guilt. It still hurts though. Regardless of whether we ever work on our M again, I really hope she finally sees this man for his true self. Otherwise, I can't help but think she'll get hurt over and over again.<p>Thanks for letting me vent. It feels good just to tell my story. I might be seeing W today, if she can fit me into her busy schedule. I'll let you know how it goes.<p>Take care,
BP

Just another vent. I'm sure many of you have felt exactly the same way that I do right now. It's so damn frustrating that the WS sees the OP as such a perfect angel! It seems to me like OM could murder my W's whole family, and she'd still make excuses for him, and love him, and want to spend her life with him!!! In her eyes, he can do no wrong. #&%@!?*$!!!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>This afternoon W called and I asked her if she was ok. I told her I was a little concerned because of how upset she'd seemed yesterday (she was beside herself because my conversation with OM's W revealed another of his lies). She started bashing OM's W for "being manipulative." She feels that OM's W called me in order to make her get upset and angry at OM. She's no longer the least bit angry at him for lying to her, or even for cheating on her last weekend. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>This is so hard for me to deal with, because I honestly believed the fog was beginning to lift. Last weekend while she lay in the hospital bed after her suicide attempt, she told me how stupid she was for ever believing in him in the first place. I told her there's a big difference between doing a stupid thing and being a stupid person; and that she now had an opportunity to learn from her mistake and make her life better. I'd like to remind her of that conversation, but I know she would stick up for him again, and it would all end up just being a LB on my part.<p>I want so badly to help her survive this difficult time and regain some self-respect. At times like this I seriously question whether I'm just wasting my time and energy. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>OK, I'm done venting for now. Thanks for listening.<p>BP

Vent as much as you want bro, that's one of the reasons why were all here.<p>It might help to start becoming emotionally detached from her during this period (I know,I know it's easier said than done) just so you can withstand the utter nonsense of her 'fog' mentality. <p>DO NOT LET YOUR LIFE REVOLVE AROUND HER, and go do the things that bring you fulfillment as a person whether it be going to a play, a game, or volunteer work. These things recharge your soul and give you strength to continue the battle.<p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe

Boy, for someone who uses the screen name "be_positive", my last couple of posts have been pretty negative! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I'm glad I vented my frustration in those posts, 'cause today I'm feeling pretty well, and I'm not letting things bother me.<p>Joe, thank you for some good advice. Do you think it's possible to emotionally detach while at the same time increasing my contact with W? I'm not sure how to do this. I think I had detached pretty well during the fall and the holiday season, and I focused on myself and felt emotionally healthy. Now I've talked with W more in the past week than I had in the previous 3 months. I'm afraid this is re-opening some wounds and bringing back the emotional roller coaster. It's nowhere near as bad as it was 6 months ago, but I am experiencing some highs and lows. At least this time it's not all new, and I know the low points will pass.<p>You're absolutely right that I shouldn't let my life revolve around her. Towards that end, I went to a rock concert last week, I'm going to a symphony concert tonight, I'm going ice skating tomorrow night, and I'm having dinner with my parents on Wednesday. It's activities like these that enabled me to get through the last 6 months feeling good about myself.<p>I want to continue being the best friend I can to W. Any suggestions for doing this while at the same time protecting my own emotions and staying off the roller coaster?<p>Thanks so much for your help.
BP

B_P,<p>It sounds as if you are doing very well. First, remember there are actually two goals here. <p>1. That your W survives and doesn't commit suicide.<p>2. That you and your W resolve this marriage one way or another.<p>I think that by listening to her, you are helping her immensely. The advice from the lady to never answer her questions directly sounds like good advice to me. <p>As for her rationalization, you are up close to the FOG. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Now you see why it is called that here. She is rationalizing everything. However, if OM is trying to rebuild with his W, she will have to face her own issues soon enough.<p>This brings me to what I really posted about. You were not a bad husband. She has had three A's dating to before you two married. So it isn't about you being a bad H. It IS about her. You cannot fix her, she has to want to do that.<p>You are NOT her savior, only her God is that. B_P I think you should do everything you can to make sure she heals from her suicide attempt, but ultimately you are going to have decide about your own marriage. You cannot be responsibile for her the rest of your life.<p>So when dealing with item #1 do it as you have done, but with the knowledge that at some point she is going to have to seek out professional help and heal herself. You cannot do it for her.<p>See how you feel as this progresses on. You are doing the right thing now. You will need to do the right thing for you within a few months as she heals.<p>I don't see life going very well for her unless some hugh changes occur within her. They haven't yet, but she is still in the fog. Hang with her until the fog lifts, and then YOU decide what you want to do.<p>Is this making sense??? I hope so.<p>God Bless,<p>JL