Honey
HAng in there girl....it's okay that you vent here. Don't call your stupid FIL again. He sounds like an a**hole....and you don't need to deal with it. Yeah, it was crummy that he sent the card to a place where the kids don't even live....how stupid is that? My MIL hasn't contacted my kids since Xmas....they are all so blinded by what her son has done. All of them are divorced....one sister was involved with a married man...the brother was an abusive H in his first marriage...the other sister...is just a loser. I had the total cream of the crop....he was just the best....and look at me now! I understand .....and you do need to vent....i do think BR was a little hard on you. As for your H not talking to you ...that is so stupid....it's one thing for him to just not talk to you...it's another to announce it and act like is is some big punishment.......hang in there girl...I will listen to you vent anytime. Sometimes you just need to do it. (just don't call that dopey FIL again!!)
MAX

Honey,
I have been following your post. How long has this all been going on? When did your husband move out? How long have you been living in this h#*l you poor thing? I think you said you had been going to theraphy ... are you still? Yes you have a lot of anger and rightfully so .... and all that anger has to go somewhere .... and it's right to put it out here ... but it seems your situation is a constant anger generator . so I suppose my question is what are you doing to take steps to avoid generating that kind of anger with yourself ...

BRose, who died and made you queen of advice, please do not bother posting to me again.. I am offended by your posts.. you need not bother with advise to me. I see that some of your points are good and valid, but I do not like the manner in which you convey your points.. perhaps you need to rethink your viewpoint. I have run into people in recovery who think they know it all, and I think you nicely fit into that category.. perhaps the reason you are so harsh to me, is that is is too familiar to your own situation. I do not know, but I do not certainly have to follow all of your advice, nor do I have to like what you say... I thought that by kindly posting to you my offense.. you might realize how harsh you are.. but I only got more shoveled at me... yes, you have valid points.. but they come with insults, and put downs. rethink that in your recovery, ok? best of luck, feel free to leave my posts alone.. I do not need your harsh advice that makes me feel bad and upset, your tone has been upsetting and harsh time and time again, I think you do the same to others as well.. good luck in helping others with kindness not harshness.<p>thanks, HONEY

Now that I read the other posts, and c almed down about the br insults... I thank you both max and renee.. i think this situation is too close to home for br, as she lives with a drinker... but I will not throw any insulta.. but go to alanon br, and remember. .no one can tell others how to live, and how dare you tell me I should definitely follow your advise, i do not even know you , and though you have some valid points, I do not like the tone you post to me in, it is hurtful.<p>I am in a painful situation , I came here and vented... yes, I did some wrong.. no , it was no major crisis.. just some lb's and yes, I deal with a very immature spouse (at times)with some deep rooted problems that some stem from his father, my fil! who I got so angry at.<p>Yes - I do appreciate some of you saying, my fil is a jerk! He is, and I appreciate that! Yes, I do come here for support.<p>If all I got here was BR type of comments... <p>"YOU are doing it all wrong, honey... let me show you my way... so you can do it right"- boy do I see where you have some issues.. you are talking about yourself.. when you tell me I know how to fix everything... I do not even pretend to be in that situation. Sure I have anger= and I would rather vent it, than let it eat me up inside and have it kill me.<p>Yes, I am taking a leap by upsetting you and telling you, br, what I think... it is just about 4 posts to many.. just stay away from my troubles... I do not need more pain, OK>? <p>Thanks for all the kindness and advise the others of you have given, selket, you did not offend, and sorry about the whore comment, but I definitely feel that way aobut the one in my life... and the things she did that have helped to destroy my family.
IT is just a vent- one of my best freinds is involved with a mm, and by the grace of god she is ending it... it could be me, and even was me in my prior marriage... and I learned how wrong and hurtful it was, even when I did not love my H or have kids... (I was married 10 months for the first time, to someone who was completely wrong for me... etc etc...) I am not aat all proud I did this, either, but I have been there too.<p>I am saddened that br, you do not see my good points... Actually my situation has greatly improved, and I am doing MUCH BETTER, we all have set backs... and sorry if my vents are a bit loony... I just need to get it out... and I thought this was a good place.. there has been a lot of judgement going around on this board lately, and I am sorry that it is here..<p>We really can't tell each other what to do, like in alanon it says that.. but we can offer each other our EXPERIENCE STRENGTH AND HOPE< Right...<p>HUgs , HONEY

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by honey:
<strong>I just do not want my FIL affecting my kids the way he has affected his son.<p>Basically I feel if he cannot respect me, he does not have a place in their lives. <p>H</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hello Honey,<p>You are very WRONG about the children's grandfather not having a place in their lives. You will only breed resentment in your children when they realize you kept a possible relationship from them, and look like an ogre who couldn't forgive in the midst of his illness. Believe me, I was THAT CHILD who was not allowed to have a relationship with her mentally-ill grandmother. It has taken years to get over the anger with my mother for her choice.<p>Also, I think you're WAY off the mark about BR (not that she needs me to stand up for her). She's not being HARSH, she's being REALISTIC. You are not a newbie who needs to be handled with kid gloves.

Sheryl, sorry to have hit a rut with you too, with the grandfather issue... this grandfather is not mentally ill, but he has been a drug dealer, a liear, an adulter, and encouraged my H to steal my kidsl... there is not a moral bone in his lying body, and if you think you understand where I am coming from you are wrong. This has nothing to do with your grandmother, this has to do with a man who is demonstatably dangerous, and doing hurtful things to destroy my marriage on purpose.. he is a sick man... and dangerous. <p>Why don't ya'll just throw rocks at me today? that might of felt better?<p>H

Honey, I have to say that although BR's post is not what you want to hear ... she is speaking the truth. I think you know that. And if that means that you will ask me not to post to you either then I will honor your wish. But ... you are embroiled in an extremely codependant relationship that is toxic at this time to you and therefor to your children as well ... your husband is a selfish arrogant sick man and although you say that he seems to be working on your marriage I am going to say to you what someone said to me when I was going through this .. she said ... when I said "we" are working on our marriage she said ... it appears only one of you is .... I was so angry and choose to cut her out of my life too. I thought she was being mean and didn't want me to get back together when in reality she was speaking from her own experience as well ... the same thing had happened to her too... so I will say it .... right now, Honey it doesn't sound like your WS is working toward reunification .... and you are spinning in circles and getting more and more angry because it just isn't working .... I know marraige builders is about trying and I say try until the cows come home .... but sometimes you have to realize when your up against something a lot bigger that what you can do .... I don't think you could get anybody on the board to agree that putting up with abusive behavior and that's what your husband is doing being openly emotionally abusive to you is what this is all about. There is no shame is protecting your honor .... there is shame in not .... you need help for YOURSELF ... you aren't going to be good for yourself or your kids until you get out of this crazy situation. You may not want to hear it ... but I think on some level you know it's true ... you must be feeling so out-of-control and that's not necessary because if your feeling out control then ask yourself "who is it I'm trying to control"? because you have control over yourself so if you feel that way you are trying to control someone else. That is setting yourself up for failure.

I have no desire to throw rocks at you honey.<p>I know that my grandmother is not your children's grandfather, and I was not understanding of YOUR side, but YOUR CHILDREN'S. <p>You stated that because this man did not RESPECT you that he needs to be cut out of your children's life. If he is TRULY dangerous, of COURSE you have to protect your children.

honey,<p>People who don't care about you are going to ply you with nice sounding, patronizing words [bullsh**] that they know you want to hear because they don't want to risk making you mad with the TRUTH. The people who are REALLY CARING are going to bust your [censored] when you need it. And there are many times that you DO need it! They take a risk doing so and they don't have to, but they do it because they care and they know that is what you need to hear. <p>The ones who are doing you a favor are the ones who are telling you the TRUTH, not the ones plying you with nice sounding bullsh** that you WANT to hear!<p>Now, this might make you mad, honey, but I think you sorely misjudged BR and owe her an apology. She is trying to shake you out of your chronic love busting ways with some TOUGH LOVE. She didn't bust your chops because she is trying to be mean to you, but to HELP YOU. <p>So please calm down and quit expecting nice platitudes to justify your actions and listen to some valuable objective input from an experienced MBer who has been through this.<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</p>

Honey ~ thanks for your honesty about how you feel about my advice. I won't post to you again.<p>Good luck with your marriage.

thanks BR, I am sure you are a nice person, I apprciate the time you put into your responses.. but that doesn't change that they hurt me.... thanks for the response... <p>same to others... at this point- I am shying away from the boards... I really do not think any of us are ok to diagnos others as codependent... addicts, etc... sure we all have issues... so we are here to help each other.. not name call, and point out that some of us who have been here longer are better than others... sorry for my bluntness.. but I feel it is getting out of hand... with the downposts... I am just so hurt.. by all the shoulds and should nots and you are wrongs... I got on this post... <p>i got some good insight.. but it can be given with love, not wough... look how wrong you are... I am alreay being treated bad enough by my spouse... I did not come here to get hurt... I came here to get help getting through this.. but I know this board.. just like life.. is full of all kinds... and I too, could easlily hurt someone... but I definitely do not try to... and my actions to my spouse and his dad... ie fil, are out of the pain they inflict to me... and yes, some of it is purposeful.. yes, the best medicine is to stay away from these people and not feed back into their game... but It hurts to be called pouty, immature, and etc etc... I know I messed up! But there is not a mean bone in my body... I am caring, loving and tired of getting walked on for it... Often in life... people do walk all over me.. I am trying to stand up for myself... and maybe the ways I have tried... confrontational at times... are not good... I guess one excues I have is I am from texas// ya know we are too opinionated down here.. and we don't like to tolerate bs! either! My h happens to be from georgia.. he once told me that he is from the outlaw state.. it used to be where the govt housed the immoral and the criminal- I guess I am dealing with the descendants of this kind of a state! Hehehehe , jsut sd that to make me laught... I am not vengeful, or cruel... sometimes.. maybe my vent seems immature... believe me I take on the responsibilites and have for many years of a very mature and grown woman... I am just in a lot of pain over it... I want to be loved and cared for.... <p>I want to be the honey that is protected and put on a pedestel.. this is what I want, and feel I deserve.. I will not settle for les... No, i do not want my h back in his current state.. it sickens me... @@@ But I need to work through it... and boy does this plan a make us all look like idiots at time... <p>i am tempted to go away from the boards... as I feel some of you are now angry with me, as I am sure br has friends, and I do not mean to say anything bad about her... I am just hurt... and I dfon't need that hurt in my life anymore... <p>I am sure she did not mean to hurt me, but these days I am quite sesitive.. I do not consider myself... self centered, immature, petty, etc... I just reacted to a little thing that hurt me a lot this weekend... I am sorry... I am human... I am trying to get better every day.<p>GOd be with all of you.<p>Honey

I'm not here to defend anyone.....as BR can most assuredly handle herself and I'm not here to put anyone down.<p>Honey,<p>I've been here for about 9 months now and in that time I've done things that I have regretted and I've had people telling me how stupid it was and some have had to get pretty tough with me.<p>I do believe that BR was one of the people that had to get tough with me. Now in recovery I can see why she did and and I can also see how it helps some and not others. <p>One of the reasons that some of us that are in recovery still post here is because we recieved so much help from others that when we reached the point that we could help others we felt that we could give back what was given to us. That is why I'm still here.<p>
I have seen alot of your posts but have not responded to them as I felt that I had nothing to offer to your situation. Now I feel like I do. Take my advice or leave it.....I'm speaking from my experience only and it may not help you. If I sound harsh about something it's because I want you to learn from my mistakes instead of making them on your own and stalling your relationship with your H.<p>I've seen from alot of your posts that you blame everyone expept your H for his A.
You blame your FIL's behaviour over the years for the way your H behaves now. This is not healthy. You need to accept that fact that your H made the decision to have an A. His father did not make that choice for him...nor did the OW.
His father may not have helped the situation....being the way that he is....but your H made the decision...he is his own person.<p>I also see in alot of your posts where you seem to expect everything to go your way....the way you think it should go. This is not healthy either.
We all do that.....all of us BS's do this...and I did it for way too long. I would not be in recovery today had I not been called a spoiled brat and a control freak....and yes it hurt at the time....but it also opened my eyes.<p>While I agree that Your H needs to learn how to deal with all of this in a different way...is it possible that he refuses to talk to you because of your outbursts of anger? Does he do this to protect himself from a verbal confrontation?
If so....then it is perfectly acceptable to me.....my H did the same thing. I would do so myself.....it's sort of like Plan B....to protect yourself from being hurt. After it was explained to me I understood and made sure that I changed the way that I interacted in conversations.<p>Why am I saying all this......because I was once in your shoes....the only difference......it was MY family that was condoning what my H was doing. (when he moved out....my sister took him in as well as the rest of my family)
I went off...made disrespectful judgments......and everything else in between.<p>What helped me?
The people here that cared enough to get tough with me and make me see what I was doing....which was destroying what I thought I was trying to fix.<p>Believe me when I say that nobody here on this board would respond to you if they didn't care....and BR is one of the most caring souls I've ever seen.

I just do not think it is at all caring to call anyone names or be hurtful in order to help people.. my opinion, my life... I see br was trying to help, but I do not like the way or the words that the help was offered in. I am not saying she is wrong, or I am right... I just do not like being name called, and hurt while hurting already.. maybe some of you are able to do better.. when confronted and name called, but I myself do better with a kinder approach. It may be my upbringing, or just who I am... I do not respond to being name called or talked down... frankly it hurts my feelings, and if that is codependent... saying someone else's namecalling hurts me,,.. I do not agree... I do think br was trying to help... but when her posts continually brought bad feelings to me... and when there are several things she sd that I did not agree with... I cannot hel[p but respectfully disagree... I am not out to bash, etc. I am here to recover, and grow, but not be made fun of, and hurt.<p>All of the friends of br gang coming to her aid are reinforcing the hurt I asked to stop, and I am not trying to hurt anyone here.. .especially BR. I was open and honest so that she might see her words hurt. I believe words hurt. they hurt me.. I am a good caring person as well, and I do not think outright name calling and criticism is necessraily the way to recover for all. I also think that what some people need is not what others need. I am just trying to openly and as kindly as I can honestly express.. how I do not like to be treated. OK? I'm sure BR is great, just the tone of the advise is hurtful to me in particular, and that might be my problem... OK? It just hurts, and I do not need more upsets in my life. I need kind urges toward my growth.<p>HONEY

Hi Honey. I am fairly new here and I really don't know all the personalities of this board. So, I am not coming to anyone's defense or otherwise. This is for you and YOU only.<p>First of all, when I speak to you or anyone else I speak from my heart with the utmost sincerity. Why? Because I care. I know what I have experienced and the road would have been much easier if I had had people that reached out to me a long time ago.<p>I can relate to so many things you are experiencing right now. And I am speaking to you from my own experience and nothing more. I am not a professional nor do I claim to be.<p>Take my advice or leave it. I will not be offended. <p>Honey, PLEASE stop and think a minute. Sweetie you have so many things going on in your life. Have you considered making a list? Make a list of your "issues" that you need to address, then PRIORITIZE them. You seem to have so many things going on that it would make my head spin if I were in your situation. BUT ~ there is only one person in this entire world than can do anything about it. Do you know who that is? Y O U !!!<p>I think you have been given some wonderful advice, and as an "outsider" I think that the reason people have posted to you is NOT to make you feel bad. They are extending a hand to you, a loving hand. You don't have to take each and every bit of advice you receive here. Take what you can you, leave behind what you can't and move forward.<p>Sure your FIL is a real jerk. So ask yourself what can you do about it? Can you change him? Do you think there is ANYTHING you can do to make change his behavior? No more than he can change yours, right? So if you have all this energy (and apparently you are a bundle of energy [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) try, just TRY to use it to enhance your life. Arguing with him is not going to change one single thing. You have already said yourself that you feel bad afterwards. You get all this negative energy going, your mind is filled with angry thoughts of this man and it absolutely, positively does NOTHING for you. NOTHING!<p>I have seen you post several times now to BR, asking her not to post to you. She has agreed yet you are still seemingly upset with her. Forget it! Move forward and think positively. You will never get yourself out of this situation by continuing down the same path. Try to understand. If you are unhappy in your current situation, won't you ALWAYS be there? Of course you will. Unless you make a change. That is your only option. YOU must do something. Otherwise you have no right to say anything. <p>I am sorry if you don't agree but I believe with everything I have that I am responsible for me and my life and my future. Not my ex husband, not my abusive father, not my mother who did nothing, not my abusive uncle, not my boyfriend, not my boss, not you, but only ME. <p>And Honey, the same is true for you and every other person on this board.<p>I am reaching to you. You may get upset with me but at least I held out my hand to you. Take it. At least THINK about what I have said.<p>I can relate to you quite a bit. I've been there and done that and as hard as it was, I had to dig myself out of the rubble. I had to fight. I had to struggle. I had to make a change. <p>And although it has been the toughest thing I could ever imagine, I did it. And have no one to thank but myself, my therapy program, and my friends from my support board.<p>With concern and love,
Clearview

Clearview, No I am not upset, and no I am not upset, nor was I with BR, I just tried to respond to others who did not seem to get my point clearly... I know I am responsible... <p>I did not say I was not.. I appreciate your advise and thoughtful ness and everyone else's , what some people fail to see and realize,, is what I did not appreciate was the tone and words used which were real attacks on me... and who I am... at least they appear that way to me.<p>I know I am the only who can change this mes... and yes, staying away from these type of people who hurt me, fil, is my first choice,.. but he is affecting my children, and will not go away.. but the truth is, the more I let him bother me, the worse he will become.. as that is what his nature is.with his poor interpersonal skills..<p>I am not blaming anyone anywhere... I am venting... I hope that is ok, rather here than all over my family members! <p>No one even has to read my vents... I am just asking, please when suggestions are offered to do so with love... I do not have a single problem with a single persons posts , except the one I mentioned... as I have mentioned several times, no I am not angry , i am hurt... I just wish other people who have come to the defense of that poster... did not see me as attacking, and hope she does not either... <p>I just think, I am clearly not the only person who does not like the BLATANT tough love, with name calling involved. I am here to learn and grow and want to stay involved on the forum... and hey maybe even br would lighten her tone with me, and we could be happy posters together so to speak.. but I just do not like harsh words, and name calling.<p>Yes, I get tough love, yes, I am freely willing to face my PART in the problems... and just because my vents do not say everything I think or feel, does not mean- I blatantly blame others.. <p>I like to vent, I have tried to label my vents vent. Maybe my diary/ journal is a better place, but the feedback I have gotten here has been good.. br included.. I just do not like name calling and criticism with a sting to it, OK? Yes, we all make mistakes, but there is a gentle way to get this across.... <p>i am highly intelligent.. not trying to be too stuck up - but I did not come to this board, to put on a fake facade... I want feedback on real feelings, and thoughts.. not nicey nicey stuff I feel ok posting. thanks.<p>H

Just because I say something in a vent does not mean I am going to act on it, etc.. it is just my thoughts... but I guess those are too much, for some, and I should change MY THINKING?

Well Honey, I think it's very healthy and helpful to vent. I don't know if you know what I have been through but it's been a lot to say the least. <p>I'm 31 and became very depressed and eventually suicidal, I had a stay in the mental hospital. Once I was in therapy I started to recognize what issues contributed to the way I feel. I was VERY angry. I mean EXTREMELY angry for the things that happened to me. Things that I had no choice in (as a child). <p>One of the most liberating things for me was journaling. My therapist suggested it and once I started I found this to be such a wonderful outlet for my emotions. I could say ANYTHING I wanted and even though I would never say these things to those people's faces, at least I said them and I got it out of my system. I totally understand the need to vent. <p>Sometimes I will write a letter and not save it. Sometimes I will. Sometimes I just journal for myself ~ not really directed at anyone in particular. Just what I'm feeling that day. AND I even write letters to my bf when he's simply getting on my nerves (a common thing when you live with someone). That way I can say what I want at the time, I won't start a huge arguement and later I can address the issues when I'm not so emotional.<p>So YES Honey, vent or journal away.<p>But there is a happy medium somewhere. I have some thoughts for you and I would like to tell you but right now I'm not too sure you want to hear them. I thought about asking if it's OK to tell you and I wasn't sure. But here I go anyway. Again, disagree if you want but try to keep in mind that we can learn SO much from each other, and that if we all agreed all the time, how would we EVER grow or progress?<p>While I see you venting, I believe ~ only from what I've seen ~ that you spend too much time on THEM and not enough time on YOU. And that doesn't mean you are a bad person, it is NOT a criticism in any way whatsoever. It's an observation that I have made.<p>Venting is healthy, but TOO many thoughts on them and not enough on you will hold you down.<p>LET them live their miserable lives. You can live one WITH them, or you can live a happy life while they are still leading their miserable lives. I KNOW this is hard for you and I know how it feels when someone else treats you so badly and you feel you can do NOTHING about it. However, have you considered they know how to "push your buttons"? And that they can control you in a sense by doing this? You can show them you are a much stronger, a much better person, a much smarter person by taking that power away from them. Goodness knows it's hard. <p>One little incident in my life here... I'll try to make it short. My ex bf was very controlling and manipulative and emotionally abusive. I'll skip the details and tell you I had to get a restraining order. He brought a very BIG friend to court with him, as well as a girl-friend (not GF) in an effort to intimidate me. I believe that if I know him as well as I think I do, he thought I would be too embarassed to bring up my personal issues and that I would not get the order I was seeking. I did NOT let them intimidate me. I got my RO, and after court the girl drove by my car and stared at me. Big Woo-Hoo, right? WHO CARES WHAT THEY THINK? He is THEIR problem now, not mine. <p>WHO CARES!?<p>Remember when those naked pictures of Madonna came out a long time ago? The press was all over it. Everyone thought this would be a career buster for her. Remember her response? SO WHAT! Yep... SO WHAT! And she never looked back.<p>Love yourself and the rest will fall into place. Don't hold anger in because it will destroy you. It almost destroyed me. <p>I would LOVE to talk with you about anything you want. I would like to have positive dialogue with you. I know that we may not agree on certain issues but I will not hold that against you. Like I said, if we all agreed, where in the world would we be? <p>
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Love,
Clear

Still glad to talk, feeling like this is not the place to vent anymore though.<p>thanks, H

OK. Please keep an open mind. I SWEAR lady, I BELIEVE everyone only talks to you with concern and care.<p>Take care!<p>Clear

Clear, I agree, you are great, and so are most everyone.. it is just I do not agree ... with a lot of opinions that it is ok to bust someone for what they are doing or going through.. that is just not my way of healing or dealing... with things.. even with my kids... <p>I am going to take a rest..and hope next time I post... it will be better results..<p>I appreciate your ideas on the journal... I will take that to heart- I have noticed some here saying there are certain things they would not share on the board... i now too, am to that point... I bared it all, in order to grow and help others do the same... I do that in my own life as well... you could say I am quite bold..<p>I appreciate all thoughts.. and no I do not feel people here are not my friends.. I have quite a few... I was just hoping for more to see that this board is not a place for others to tell otheres... what to do... but then again.. that would be getting my way, right? I really don't care, but I am glad there was some good discussion.<p>H