WOW Conquerer, i feel we are cut from the same cloth. I thought i had something wrong with me with my thoughts and my feelings, but i truly understand....is it that i can't forgive or i won't.....that's y i keep the name.

Conqueror,
I dont get on here as much as I used to but your post caught my eye. I have printed it out and made notes all over it wish I could send it to you. <p> I am in awe when I read that you feel you have walked the walk so to speak,read all the books, and still you dont see whats in front of you.<p> Print out this post, pretend I am you and give me some advice.Write in the margins, look for clues.<p>Your problem is not the OW in your bedroom, Im sure your H had girlfriends before you, they are all not in your bedroom right? and where did you read that WS are thinking of the other person while having sex?(after withdrawal)
Its late maybe Im being too philisophical, please dont take offense. I really think you two could be happy again, but it will take a leap of undeserved faith.

Conqueror,
Sorry did I overstep my boundaries? I have a big mouth. please let me know how you are doing, I really do care.

Sex life? There is a sex life after betrayal? Conqueror, you are much better than I, I cannot bring myself to go through the emotional turmoil of having sex with my husband. The images of the two of them are too powerful and bring me to tears. Even without having sex with him the visions dance through my mind. In fact, yesterday, the images were racing and playing and replaying all day long. We have been intimate-less for a year now. Some kind of marriage, huh? My husband did claim, on the few times we made love after the second d-day and in between the two d-days, that he NEVER pictured her. He was always making love to ME. Do I believe him? No. How could he not? I think that if I were to have an affair I would probably think about the other person but I can't be sure. <p>I think I am waiting for the emotional feelings to return to me before I can be sexually attracted to him. During the time between the first and second d-day we were totally and completely passionate with each other. Our sex life had never been so good. But the second d-day did something to me, it killed any emotional bind I had with my husband. And on the other hand, at times I feel that I am protecting myself by not being intimate with him. I am shielding myself from future pain if it were to happen.<p>And by the way Conqueror, my husband also had performance problems (never before) with me after the initial d-day and never had a problem with her. Although, my reasoning for it happening is far different from yours. I always assumed it was out of guilt. While he was with me (and I'm talking about the time between the first and second d-days) his guilt would shine through. But I have to tell you, it really upset me to find out that she had even brought it to his attention that he never had the problem with her. <p>My husband does ask me on a regular basis if I want to make love but the answer is always a resounding NO. At this rate I could become a nun if we were to ever divorce. Of course I would love to "make love" but I feel that if I were to do anything now I would just be going through the motions and I don't want it to be like that. I can't even bring myself to kiss or hug him back yet. How sad is that? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Scarlet

conquerer, why are you still doing this? If I read your words right (especially what is between the words) you are done, you don't want this marriage, and all that remains is the courage to start down the path of leaveing...is it you are loathe to "give-up" (as in realize the 10 years is indeed down the toilet)...stubborn (by gawd, I will make him see what he has done, and rebuild himself)...fear (of starting all over cause the next guy will be just as bad, the marriage no better).... <p>You did your part, your subconcious is telling you (through your emotions) that this is not a safe place for you, and never will be...the best you can hope for is some half-as*** improvement and a so so accomodation as you watch him like a hawk the rest of your life (something I sense us unacceptable to you, even though others sometimes can do that)...so put the boundary of divorce between you...if you want you can still date, and remarry...people don't seem to take that solution often enough, I wonder why. If you have grave doubts about a marriage (after doing work, and reevaluating yourself and partner) it seems foolish to continue to try and force oneself to "make" it work....makes more sense to step way back, and remove the stress of marriage, so both can really be who they are, and evaluate the other withoug expectations (that marriage places)...if they belong together, and it is a safe nurturing joyous place, this will become clear and they can remarry.....<p>btw, the 10 years down the toilet thing, only was using the expression as you did...actually I beleive all life experiences are useful if we learn from them, just wanted to clarify that...this is not about the past 10 years this is about the next 40, and what kind of life you want to live.<p>[ March 09, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

Honey~ your post struck a chord with me. My WH told me he wasn't all the way hard with OW either. What is that about? We also have great SF. His affair seems to be more of an emotional nature. Even though it continued for 2 months after d-day, the sex stopped a month before d-day (OW story matches) even though OW pushed for a "date" to do the deed. WH was hanging on to the friendship I guess. But anyhow, what is it with WH saying he didn't get all the way hard? Do they think that lessens the blow or something??? Geez.<p>And to answer the question, OW enters my mind during SF, but usually only a flicker before I boot her out.

The faithful partner's sexual pleasure ..... does get *screwed* in the wake of an affair. (pun intended) [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It takes about 2 years to feel free and innocent in the marriage bed again.<p>Here's some of the things that helped me.<p>ANGRY SEX .... I would be the very Xena-like aggressor .... and have my way with him ..... not at all interested in his pleasure.<p>TEARFUL SEX .... I would let the emotions wash over me like a wave ... and I would freely express my anguish so my husband had the responsibility to comfort me. .... and I had the honesty to express my needing his comfort.<p>TEASING SEXUALITY .... I would purposly wear something provocative .... and not allow him to touch me. I was flaunting my sexual powers .... so he could see what a *hottie* I was BUT, mainly for ME to see what a *hottie* I was (am).<p>NON-SEXUAL LOVING ... When I could not get the insulting and painful images out of my mind, I would ask for comfort and he would hold me and cuddle me back to the *here and now* .... <p>Hang in there ...... I think it is the betrayed spouses responsibility to be honest *in the bedroom*....... It can be an opportunity for great healing .... but, only if we're honest.<p>Make sure .... do an honest internal soul evaluation ...... that the real problem is not your pride! I struggle with pridefullness .... and whatever is left undone within our recovery is due to my pride, not my husband's effort or lack of effort!<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 09, 2002: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</p>

I can relate to your feelings. For me, before the A, sex was all about emotional connection. Being with the ONLY man I'd ever allowed myself to be that intimate with. Thinking we were "one" in Christ and would be forever. <p>Since the A and finding out he took her in MY bed (she was my best friend at the time), sex is just purely physical. It's very sad and I often cry afterward. The weird part is before he used to want it all the time, now I feel like he's rejecting me. He claims it's the medicine he's on but he's been on it a year and a half and only now really complains about it. It just feels like even more rejection to me. I know he doesn't compare me, but I compare myself. I also have images that won't go away. <p>It's unbelievable to me that the 2 people I loved the most could do this. And then lie about it to make themselves look better. He only confessed when forced to in counseling. Told the counselor he had promised her he'd never tell. So for 5 years his vow to her was more important than our wedding vows.<p>I know only time will help, and take away the pain. Our counselor said it will definitely take a long time for me to feel differently about the sex thing. Some people never get past it. I'm sure I will since he's been loving and understanding. But I DO know the hurt you're going through.

Sad Princess,<p>No, I'm not offended, but pretty dense sometimes. [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] So, I hope you'll fill me in on those margin notes. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yes, sometimes his previous Ws and GFs find their way into the bedroom, too. His experience before me was in the triple digits; mine is a single digit. I'm pretty good at chasing the ones before me out, but the concurrent one is still a problem.<p>When I allowed myself to be sexual with him again, he was calling me names (endearment names, not bad names) he never had before which were obviously his little nicknames for her. He was also kissing totally different than he ever had before, again obviously the way they kissed. Even the other sexual things were different. Sex just isn't the same for me anymore. It used to be emotional and spiritual. Now it's just physical.<p>And it's on here that I've read WS talk about how they think of the OP months and even years after the A and how they still miss them. I can't remember if anyone ever mentioned those kinds of thoughts specifically during sex, but I'd assume if they have them at all, they could have them during sex, too.<p>SNL,<p>I feel like I am two people right now. Maybe when I get them integrated, I'll be able to make a decision. The me that wants out always runs smack-dab into the me that's a mom and an adult child of multigenerational divorce. So far, can't seem to navigate around her.<p>I think as long as he is decent to me and treating me with respect in the here and now and as long as I'm functioning well as a mother, I won't have enough motivation to get out. A nebulous hope of true love is not enough to disrupt my children's lives. However, if things deteriorate to a point where my ability to function well as a mother becomes impaired, then the mom me will join the outraged me and that will be all she wrote.<p>[ March 09, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>